Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Zone5]

I'm getting reports that the West Pilots are threatening and intimindating the West F/A's over the jumpseat!!!!
Suck it up Buttercup! It's not your's!!!!

Why would they do that? :huh:


seajay

 

[flybynite]

Zone 5...I have no idea. But I know this is happening....to the west f/a's.

 

[cleardirect]

If one reads the 9th rationale...Not ripe based on contingencies...

"

We conclude that this case presents contingencies that could prevent effectuation of USAPA's proposal and the accompanying injury. At this point, neither the West Pilots nor USAPA can be certain what seniority proposal ultimately will be acceptable to both USAPA and the airline as part of a final CBA. Likewise, it is not certain whether that proposal will be ratified by the USAPA membership as part of a new, single CBA. Not until the airline responds to the proposal, the parties complete negotiations, and the membership ratifies the CBA will the West Pilots actually be affected by USAPA's seniority proposal-whatever USAPA's final proposal ultimately is. Because these contingencies make the claim speculative, the issues are not yet fit for judicial decision."​

Well, lets just acknowledge that we all voted to add an additional contingency.. the Contingent MOU. How does one persuade the 9th that adding an additional, explicit, and mutually agreed contingency, on top of all the others the 9th previously acknowledged, now make the case ripe? My apologies.. I think that is sorta what you were saying.

So what?

Even if the case is not ripe now. So what? So we wait a few months and we get a JCBA would you finally agree that the case is finally ripe?

Are the facts going to change? Is usapa all of a sudden going to use the Nicolau? Is usapa going to finally come up with an LUP that has not been proven false?

You can continue to lean heavily on ripeness only for so long. Eventually (now) the case will be ripe and the court will decide.

What is the point of waiting? Other than stealing the benefits of the merger for a few more months you are still going to loss and the Nicolau will be used.

But if you think usapa is right lets get to it. Why the avoidance? How does delaying the ultimate decision benefit the entire union? It only benefits east pilots by delaying. A total DFR.

 

[Phoenix]

An AMR merger would certainly be one of those contingencies that effects the outcome of the LCC pilots seniority integration. The Ninth drew the ripeness line at the point of harm caused by a ratified JCBA. Absent that condition the harm to anyone on the the list, and thus a DFR claim against the CBA, has been precluded. Now there are other circuit courts where a different interpretation of ripeness may have been used (since other districts and appeals circuits are not bound by the decisions of the Ninth).

Yep, that's what I was saying.

Sure any judge can ignore the 9th logic and the SCOTUS action that let it stand. Any judge could ignore the additional contingency that we all voted to put in place. Any judge could. Any judge could have. Any judge might get spanked.

 

[Pi brat]

So what?

Even if the case is not ripe now. So what? So we wait a few months and we get a JCBA would you finally agree that the case is finally ripe?

Doesn't the MOU say that all previous contracts are void(or something like that) at POR? How can it be ripe if it's gone?

 

[Phoenix]

So what?

Even if the case is not ripe now. So what? So we wait a few months and we get a JCBA would you finally agree that the case is finally ripe?

Are the facts going to change? Is usapa all of a sudden going to use the Nicolau? Is usapa going to finally come up with an LUP that has not been proven false?

You can continue to lean heavily on ripeness only for so long. Eventually (now) the case will be ripe and the court will decide.

What is the point of waiting? Other than stealing the benefits of the merger for a few more months you are still going to loss and the Nicolau will be used.

But if you think usapa is right lets get to it. Why the avoidance? How does delaying the ultimate decision benefit the entire union? It only benefits east pilots by delaying. A total DFR.

Why? Why? Why? Contingencies that none of us can foresee have been added and will continue to be added during the process of reaching the point at which the 9th says it will be ripe. The 9th knew it was important to remain neutral while the parties bargain lest they interfere with free, honest bargaining. The bargaining process allows for the disputing parties to come to a resolution free of court interference. We can all endure the status quo while we wait patiently to see what great things can be done, and if need be some folks might be awarded billions and billions of damages. Have faith!

 

[Pi brat]

Zone 5...I have no idea. But I know this is happening....to the west f/a's.

Care to answer my questions?

 

[Phoenix]

Care to answer my questions?

You do appear sober now..

 

[nic4us]

Zone 5...I have no idea. But I know this is happening....to the west f/a's.

In the coming months there will probably be a couple of horror stories about cabin jumpseat or East F/As that transfers West running into West Captain Jack Oftenrude, let's just hope they are isolated incidents.

Thanks for the early warning. I suspect once more West pilots are made aware of any inappropriate behavior, sufficient peer pressure will be applied to any perpetrators so that they stop. Maybe even before anything actually starts.


PS. I kept telling you that putting a contract provision that takes away a benefit from another work group was bad idea.

 

[Phoenix]

In the coming months there will probably be a couple of horror stories about cabin jumpseat or East F/As that transfers West running into West Captain Jack Oftenrude, let's just hope they are isolated incidents.

Thanks for the early warning. I suspect once more West pilots are made aware of any inappropriate behavior, sufficient peer pressure will be applied to any perpetrators so that they stop. Maybe even before anything actually starts.


PS. I kept telling you that putting a contract provision that takes away a benefit from another work group was bad idea.

Does the new contract use the East FA jumpseat rules?

 

[flybynite]

Yes it does. And I would like it if you guys would get off trying to be the "big man" ...what ever bullshit....and leave the f/a's alone.

 

[nic4us]

Does the new contract use the East FA jumpseat rules?

The short answere is yes.

However, there could have been some changes for OAL reciprocal agreements or such, but pilots will no longer be able to ride cabin jump on West metal per the F/A contract.

Another big question mark is there might be wiggle room so that on a case by case basis it might be allowed.

 

[cleardirect]

Why? Why? Why? Contingencies that none of us can foresee have been added and will continue to be added during the process of reaching the point at which the 9th says it will be ripe. The 9th knew it was important to remain neutral while the parties bargain lest they interfere with free, honest bargaining. The bargaining process allows for the disputing parties to come to a resolution free of court interference. We can all endure the status quo while we wait patiently to see what great things can be done, and if need be some folks might be awarded billions and billions of damages. Have faith!

With JCBA and SLI being separate pieces. What possible contract "contingencies" do you think can happen that would make anything other than the Nicolau acceptable? There not any. the facts are not going to be different today or several months from now. We have an MOU. We know that we are going to be working under the green book. We know that usapa will never unless forced to use the Nicolau.

So explain what possible contract contingencies do you think we can get that would make something other than the Nicolau fair (not just for east pilots) that would get passed by the company and the APA?

The west going to get a higher pay rate? the west going to get more 401K contribution? The west going to get more vacation than the east? Or will the contract treat all new american pilot equally?

 

[flybynite]

Let me make myself clear.....this is new to the West Pilots. Learn the new rules. The world doesn't revolvled around you....so...this is the new rule.

And if you don't mind....get off your high horse...leave the f/a's alone...not your business.....And if you threaten one of our f/a's again....we will be hauling your silly butt into the office. But be aware...we will have your name..

 

[snapthis]

Yes it does. And I would like it if you guys would get off trying to be the "big man" ...what ever bullshit....and leave the f/a's alone.

I'm looking for that 10 ft pole.

I have a suggestion, check the attitude at the gate before you even think about boarding an aircraft I operate.