Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[nic4us]

Well, then....let USAPA do its job and see if it turns out in accordance with Judge Silver's words, or not. THEN sue USAPA...when it is ripe.

The worsties are doing all they can to hold things up and delay making the situation ripe? Why?

On top of that, they accuse USAPA of delaying things when THEY are the ones filing the lawsuits that are dragging this out.

If they are so confident in winning on LUP and getting gazillions in damages, what exactly is the hurry to the court room door for?

You live in a uscaba alternate reality.

It is ripe now. So, the lawsuit is filed now. Why wait?

Also, The West is not the only entity filing a lawsuit. The scab union filed a complaint in the NYbankruptcy court on the same day....or did you miss that?

 

[Phoenix]

There will NOT be any "system-wide" bid for at least a couple of years from today. Not until after the POR, the JCBA and the SLI processes are completed. In the meantime, the West can continue to enjoy their sandbox, which will work out to about 10 years in "purgatory", enjoy! No planned "mainline" growth in PHX. Don't forget that 75 bid!

The East, on the other-hand will continue to utilize their DOH/LOS derived seniority to define their individual "status, class and category" to reap the benefits of East attrition and planned growth, even you Trader!


seajay

Exactly. What folks don't want to admit or see is that the Nic is meaningless unless there is a system bid based on the Nic that rearranges everyone's class, status, and category. Scott Kirby said, "No." DOH is still working out just fine across the three independent systems, just like we all voted.

 

[nic4us]

The Nic list may be a combined list at LCC but it has absolutely no relation whatsoever to the status, class, and category for each pilot at USAir... None, zip, zilch. How can it be a system seniority list if it has no effect on pilot status, class, or category?

"No."
-- Scott Kirby

Sure it does.

Separate ops is almost over.

 

[snapthis]

96. On February 18, 2013, the West Pilots put US Airways and APA on notice
that USAPA breached the duty of fair representation because the MOU provides a
substantial improvement in wages without requiring implementation of the Nicolau
Award list. 102
97. The West Pilots also demanded that APA and US Airways include the West
Pilots in any discussion of the seniority integration process and commit themselves to
using the Nicolau Award list when integrating pilot seniority lists. 103
98. On February 19, 2013, Plaintiffs sent separate letters to USAPA, US Airways,
and APA.104
100 USAPA Negotiating Advisory Committee, NAC Update – Q&A, and PHL
Roadshow Reminder, at *1 (Jan. 25, 2013) [App. 393-94]; see also J. Scherff, Aff., at ¶ 13
(authenticating) [App. 361].
101 MOU, at ¶ 10(a) (“A seniority integration process consistent with McCaskill-
Bond shall begin as soon as possible after the Effective Date. If, on the date ninety (90)
days following the Effective Date, direct negotiations have failed to result in a merged
seniority list acceptable to the pilots at both airlines, a panel of three neutral arbitrators
will be designated within fifteen (15) days to resolve the dispute, pursuant to the
authority and requirements of McCaskill-Bond.&rdquo [App. 372]; see also Committee of
Concerned Midwest Flight Attendants v. Int’l Bdh. Of Teamsters, 742 F. Supp. 2d 1035,

a. These letters explain that, unless USAPA agrees to use the Nicolau List, Plaintiffs will file an action to enjoin any process of seniority integration that does not implement the Nicolau.105
b. The letter to APA also puts it on notice that it may be liable for acting in concert with USAPA by agreeing to a Protocol Agreement that does not recognize the Nicolau Award must control the relative seniority order of the US Airways pilots.106

 

[nic4us]

3 lists, the MOU, McCaskill Bond. The only seniority integration method accepted by the east, the west, APA, and the companies.

The Mou calls for MB.

That alone requires only two lists, and that is why the West voted overwhelmingly in favor.

I think you are confused, and think the other players are going to allow usapa to bring it's DFR failure into play and EF up the orderly integration of the pilots post merger.

Not going to happen. LCC management was willing to allow you to piss in your own cherios as long as you liked, but The New American management is going to breath a sigh of relief the day the APA files for single carrier representation status, which BTW is also in the MOU and time constrained.

 

[Claxon]

APA has absolutely no obligation to the West class. They have no contract with them. Nor any legal obligation. Leonidas is pi$$ing up a rope

 

[Claxon]

Sure it does.

Separate ops is almost over.

Delusional.

 

[traderjake]

"No." --- Scott Kirby

"Everyone's perspective will be heard." --- Scott Kirby

 

[cleardirect]

Well, then....let USAPA do its job and see if it turns out in accordance with Judge Silver's words, or not. THEN sue USAPA...when it is ripe.

The worsties are doing all they can to hold things up and delay making the situation ripe? Why?

On top of that, they accuse USAPA of delaying things when THEY are the ones filing the lawsuits that are dragging this out.

If they are so confident in winning on LUP and getting gazillions in damages, what exactly is the hurry to the court room door for?

So in your mind you would let the robber into your house. Help him load up your stuff into the truck. Then call the cops to get your stuff back instead of installing the burglar alarm before the robbery.

Is usapa ever going to use the Nicolau on it's own? Answer, NO! So the only job usapa would try to do is take from the west. Besides usapa has to have a legitimate union purpose BEFORE the SLI is complete not after.

Since you east pilots would not know what the right thing is unless it is slapped up against your head the court is going to have to slap you. That is the quickest way to the end. Not avoiding it by crying ripeness.

 

[nic4us]

Where's the contract that specifies a single DOH seniority list?

USAPA can negotiate one (maybe), they can't unilaterally impose one.

There is not and never was a DOH list at LCC.

Never will be either.

There is however an accepted system seniority list for all LCC pilots, contractually obtained and still very valid.

Said list along with the separate CBAs and the TA were inherited by usapa as the successor bargaining agent. No doubt about that and three times validated by every federal judge who has looked at our case.

Usapa was left free to negotiate an alternate list, provided they had a LUP to do so, but has failed to do so.

Therefore, usapa has but one system seniority list for the pilots it represents.

 

[algflyr]

"Everyone's perspective will be heard." --- Scott Kirby

In the context of what Scott said, I wonder how he defines "Everyone"...

 

[cleardirect]

I know the MOU says lists, but you may be correct. I bet they will find some way around a single list. Every APA pilots I've had on the jumpseat has been in favor of doh and fences.

DOH with fences. right.

Do those APA pilots know that DOH would put about 900 east pilots senior to the first 200 APA pilots?
Do the APA pilots know that by DOH they would end up with 65% of their pilots in the bottom 50% of the seniority list?

Tell them that and then ask if they want DOH.

 

[nic4us]

You do realize that "status, class and category" are determined by DOH/LOS, not in lieu of it, right?


seajay

No...wrong....status class and category are determined by ....um ...it is so obvious even an east hole should understand this....

They are determined by status class and category.

 

[Phoenix]

"Everyone's perspective will be heard." --- Scott Kirby

That's not the same thing as saying everyone will be allowed to speak at the table, as Greeter already pointed out.

Oh, save your time and money. Relative position, category and status at the POR, WB fences to the moon, all via MB arbitration, finished almost three years from now, courtesy of the new process we all voted for. Everything of the past will be washed away and irrelevant at the POR because we asked to have it that way. No one will have anything to worry about lawsuits and everyone will be upset about something.

Twenty years from now some West pilots will still be hanging onto the hope of suing the Nic into glorious resurrection, Marty will be retired and his son (now in grade school) will be the new owner of the law firm, and leading the charge (Its easy money, and a lifetime employment!). East pilots will be reclining on the shores of Lake Norman watching their great grandkids sailing the gentle waves. And the APA pilots will still wonder why no one understands they were the only real pilots in the New American anyway.


Now, go out and take a walk or go to the mall, etc.

 

[nic4us]

I can't imagine a LUP would be to break the stalemate over the NIC, and at the same time be able to further the careers/earnings/and security of all their union members. But then again I have yet to see a true definition of a LUP.

I can't imagine that either, because the merger has broken the stalemate, and furthered careers/earnings/and security of the union members....

There is no LUP in not using the Nic.....BTW..that is why the case is ripe now!