Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Walmartgreeter]

Dupe

 

[EastUS1]

We have all moved on, though a few slackers missed the briefing, but VOTED "yes" anyway.

Greeter

No fair Greeter! From recent postings: We now must sadly realize that all who voted in favor = 98% of them, were apparently all lied to and completely duped...a thing only possible if they're all illterate and as smart as a clump of unharvested clams, but hey...it's "Westworld" we're talking about here.

The collective gist of recent AOL filings = Your Honor(s)!...Save us from our own stupidity!...We can't read and we certainly can't think!...Please!, Pretty please!. It's unusually pathetic to see, even coming from AOL.

 

[Phoenix]

Dupe

I'm uncertain... Is that an abbreviation or a freudian accusation?

Anyone listening to Crandall could easily think he called on all pilots to come up with a seniority list before a merger. I initially assumed that is what he meant, and kind of laughed at the feasibility of doing that....

Upon reviewing his words more carefully, I think he got exactly what he wanted to occur before a merger... "seniority integration agreement" or "seniority integration plan"... one could even call it "The New American Seniority Integration Policy".

 

[nic4us]

In case anyone missed it, there is now a contingent seniority integration agreement, signed, sealed, and delivered, effective at the POR.

Yes there is, and that agreement is soley for the integration of the AMR pilots with the LCC pilots.

Not the integration of the LCC pilots amongst ourselves during the AMR merger.

Face it east guys........the Nic is the only combined system seniority list at LCC.....that is what is meant by final and binding.

GOT LUP? Don't think so! We get the raise with the Nic, that is why it is ripe now. Usapa is just pissed it's days of forcing perpetual separate ops (in and of itself a blatant DFR violation) are coming to an end...Nic inclusive and much the poorer for all the scumbag effort.

 

[nic4us]

Marty is merely an ambulance chaser. Ferguson and Koontz dispatch him to the scene of their self inflicted fender benders and major mishaps.

"we will exchange the seniority list for a cost neutral contract and labor peace"

Probably better to be an honest ambulance chaser than a union busting scab lawyer.

 

[Phoenix]

Yes there is, and that agreement is soley for the integration of the AMR pilots with the LCC pilots.

Not the integration of the LCC pilots amongst ourselves during the AMR merger.

Face it east guys........the Nic is the only combined system seniority list at LCC.....that is what is meant by final and binding.

GOT LUP? Don't think so! We get the raise with the Nic, that is why it is ripe now. Usapa is just pissed it's days of forcing perpetual separate ops (in and of itself a blatant DFR violation) are coming to an end...Nic inclusive and much the poorer for all the scumbag effort.

The Nic list may be a combined list at LCC but it has absolutely no relation whatsoever to the status, class, and category for each pilot at USAir... None, zip, zilch. How can it be a system seniority list if it has no effect on pilot status, class, or category?

"No."
-- Scott Kirby

 

[cleardirect]

I'm uncertain... Is that an abbreviation or a freudian accusation?

Anyone listening to Crandall could easily think he called on all pilots to come up with a seniority list before a merger. I initially assumed that is what he meant, and kind of laughed at the feasibility of doing that....

Upon reviewing his words more carefully, I think he got exactly what he wanted to occur before a merger... "seniority integration agreement" or "seniority integration plan"... one could even call it "The New American Seniority Integration Policy".

If you were correct about your theory.

Why did the APA publish that update that said they want nothing to do with our dispute? If you were correct there would be no dispute and they would have come out and said the seniority integration agreement has been decided.

The agreement is for how US Airways and american will be integrated. It will be M/B. Did you miss the part of the filing that said you can't use a process created AFTER our merger to decide something that happened BEFORE the law was passed?

So if Crandall got his wish why didn't the APA say so?

 

[traderjake]

The Nic list may be a combined list at LCC but it has absolutely no relation whatsoever to the status, class, and category for each pilot at USAir... None, zip, zilch. How can it be a system seniority list if it has no effect on pilot status, class, or category?

Concern for status, class, and category instead of DOH/LOS.

Somebody is starting to see the handwriting on the wall.

 

[Phoenix]

Oh, save your time and money. Relative position, category and status at the POR, WB fences to the moon, all via MB arbitration, finished almost three years from now, courtesy of the new process we all voted for. Everything of the past will be washed away and irrelevant at the POR because we asked to have it that way. No one will have anything to worry about lawsuits and everyone will be upset about something.

Twenty years from now some West pilots will still be hanging onto the hope of suing the Nic into glorious resurrection, Marty will be retired and his son (now in grade school) will be the new owner of the law firm, and leading the charge (Its easy money, and a lifetime employment!). East pilots will be reclining on the shores of Lake Norman watching their great grandkids sailing the gentle waves. And the APA pilots will still wonder why no one understands they were the only real pilots in the New American anyway.


Now, go out and take a walk or go to the mall, etc.

 

[snapthis]

Letter sent to USAPA attorney, Pat Szymanski on March 26, 2013​

Dear Pat:
No one involved with Leonidas, LLC, or the West Pilot class has any interest in enjoining the actual merger with American Airlines. None of them have filed such an action or intend to file or authorize any such action. In fact, the West Pilots want the actual merger to proceed as quickly as possible, but insist that the pilot integration process proceed in a legitimate and lawful manner. They believe that USAPA's DFR and the Ninth Circuit opinion and the opinion of Judge Silver require utilizing the Nicolau Award at the beginning of that process. USAPA disagrees. One way or another, this DFR dispute must and will be resolved before there can be seniority integration between US Airways and American pilots.

Rather than cooperate with obtaining a final resolution of the DFR dispute, USAPA filed a groundless action in the Southern District of New York. The Bankruptcy Court has no jurisdiction to decide a claim like this that does not involve the debtor, AMR and does not threaten AMR's reorganization. Moreover, no matter how you strain to draw a threat to enjoin the actual American Airlines merger from my prior correspondence, USAPA has no standing to assert that the West Pilots are attempting to interfere with AMR's emergence from bankruptcy. That can only be asserted by the Debtor AMR, who has shown no interest in doing so or in otherwise delaying resolution of the DFR dispute.

The flaws in USAPA's adversary claim cannot be repaired by amending the complaint to name as defendants the plaintiffs who filed a third round of litigation in the District of Arizona on March 6, 2013 (the "Arizona Plaintiffs") because the SONY does not have jurisdiction over the DFR issue. The Bankruptcy Court is not going to interfere in the Arizona action. The Arizona District Court will be rightly offended if you name the Arizona Plaintiffs as defendants in the New York action. Unions should not be suing its members in an effort to silence their voices.

A series of federal courts have held that USAPA must have a legitimate union purpose to repudiate the Nicolau Award. At some point a federal court will determine whether USAPA has such a purpose in the context of the American Airlines merger. If USAPA wants to avoid delaying the pilot integration process, it should work with us to get the DFR dispute resolved in Arizona Federal Court before the POR date. As a first step, I invite you to dismiss the New York action.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Until the APA takes over.

And the there's this gem from Silver:

"US Airways must evaluate any [seniority] proposal by USAPA with some care to ensure that it is reasonable and supported by a legitimate union purpose."

Well, then....let USAPA do its job and see if it turns out in accordance with Judge Silver's words, or not. THEN sue USAPA...when it is ripe.

The worsties are doing all they can to hold things up and delay making the situation ripe? Why?

On top of that, they accuse USAPA of delaying things when THEY are the ones filing the lawsuits that are dragging this out.

If they are so confident in winning on LUP and getting gazillions in damages, what exactly is the hurry to the court room door for?

 

[end_of_alpa]

Yes there is, and that agreement is soley for the integration of the AMR pilots with the LCC pilots.

Not the integration of the LCC pilots amongst ourselves during the AMR merger.

Face it east guys........the Nic is the only combined system seniority list at LCC.....that is what is meant by final and binding.

GOT LUP? Don't think so! We get the raise with the Nic, that is why it is ripe now. Usapa is just pissed it's days of forcing perpetual separate ops (in and of itself a blatant DFR violation) are coming to an end...Nic inclusive and much the poorer for all the scumbag effort.

Not true. The company has a DOH list as well that was given to them. It was just the issue of which list has more longevity. But since you don't care about longevity then it shouldn't have any bearing, now should it?

 

[end_of_alpa]

Letter sent to USAPA attorney, Pat Szymanski on March 26, 2013​

Dear Pat:
No one involved with Leonidas, LLC, or the West Pilot class has any interest in enjoining the actual merger with American Airlines. None of them have filed such an action or intend to file or authorize any such action. In fact, the West Pilots want the actual merger to proceed as quickly as possible, but insist that the pilot integration process proceed in a legitimate and lawful manner. They believe that USAPA's DFR and the Ninth Circuit opinion and the opinion of Judge Silver require utilizing the Nicolau Award at the beginning of that process. USAPA disagrees. One way or another, this DFR dispute must and will be resolved before there can be seniority integration between US Airways and American pilots.

Rather than cooperate with obtaining a final resolution of the DFR dispute, USAPA filed a groundless action in the Southern District of New York. The Bankruptcy Court has no jurisdiction to decide a claim like this that does not involve the debtor, AMR and does not threaten AMR's reorganization. Moreover, no matter how you strain to draw a threat to enjoin the actual American Airlines merger from my prior correspondence, USAPA has no standing to assert that the West Pilots are attempting to interfere with AMR's emergence from bankruptcy. That can only be asserted by the Debtor AMR, who has shown no interest in doing so or in otherwise delaying resolution of the DFR dispute.

The flaws in USAPA's adversary claim cannot be repaired by amending the complaint to name as defendants the plaintiffs who filed a third round of litigation in the District of Arizona on March 6, 2013 (the "Arizona Plaintiffs") because the SONY does not have jurisdiction over the DFR issue. The Bankruptcy Court is not going to interfere in the Arizona action. The Arizona District Court will be rightly offended if you name the Arizona Plaintiffs as defendants in the New York action. Unions should not be suing its members in an effort to silence their voices.

A series of federal courts have held that USAPA must have a legitimate union purpose to repudiate the Nicolau Award. At some point a federal court will determine whether USAPA has such a purpose in the context of the American Airlines merger. If USAPA wants to avoid delaying the pilot integration process, it should work with us to get the DFR dispute resolved in Arizona Federal Court before the POR date. As a first step, I invite you to dismiss the New York action.

That will do it. Game, set and match. Well played, Marty Harper.

Right.

 

[nevergiveup]

Yes there is, and that agreement is soley for the integration of the AMR pilots with the LCC pilots.

Not the integration of the LCC pilots amongst ourselves during the AMR merger.

Face it east guys........the Nic is the only combined system seniority list at LCC.....that is what is meant by final and binding.

GOT LUP? Don't think so! We get the raise with the Nic, that is why it is ripe now. Usapa is just pissed it's days of forcing perpetual separate ops (in and of itself a blatant DFR violation) are coming to an end...Nic inclusive and much the poorer for all the scumbag effort.

3 lists, the MOU, McCaskill Bond. The only seniority integration method accepted by the east, the west, APA, and the companies.

 

[end_of_alpa]

3 lists, the MOU, McCaskill Bond. The only seniority integration method accepted by the east, the west, APA, and the companies.

Legally, under the RLA, USAPA is the exclusive representational agent for all US Airways pilot. There is no East/West list when it comes to the MOU. The companies are neutral (see Kirby telling Steve Gay at the West pilot meeting). The conditions that the combined APA/USAPA list must meet are the same in both the T/A as they are in the MOU.

The companies are neutral, otherwise.

AOL/West pilot class has no legal standing to propose anything. That is why they are suiing.

They are trying to force USAPA to use the Nicolau award and that that is not what Silver said.

Oh, BTW, unions always have a DFR to its members. It is not correct to add "legitimate union purpose" in that context. It is and always has been implied. Arbitrary, discriminatory and/or bad faith are the only three prongs of any argument under the RLA.

If I were Szymanski, they should be arguing at appeal with the company that they decide it once and for all. Kill shot.