Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[A320 Driver]

Value in the east, ok. I know PHX will be sold to Mesa or become a 190 base.

Nobody but an idiot would believe that. Let's stop the cat and mouse. I'm saying we did have value and the current operation proves it. The potential was there and all we needed was time and somebody in charge that actually wanted to run an airline.

 

[A320 Driver]

There is no justification for jumpseat denials related to the seniority dispute. I would welcome you aboard, find a place for your bag and talk about sports, fishing or find something in common. I'm not going to give the silent treatment with one exception, Cleary who would not even speak to his Phoenix rep at the Addignton trial.

There's probably a few on each side that deny jumpseats. I'd say they are in the minority.

Of course they are the minority, but it's like oil...a little goes a long way. Every time someone denies a jumpseat, it goes around the system like wildfire. I can't believe anyone would do it for any reason other than the J/S rider being a total jerk about it. We've all had that at one point or another...we just tell them to take a seat in the back....WAY back. But we don't turn them away.

 

[Portly Dorman]

A little luvthe9 note-

Q – Is it true that US Airways told the USAPA and APA Boards at their joint meeting that the E-190 would not be used to replace Group 2 Aircraft flying?

A – Yes, on Thursday, Feb 21 in Ft Worth, US Airways President Scott Kirby said the plan is not to replace current Group II flying with the E-190, but that the E-190 would be growth flying consisting of flying that would otherwise go to regional airlines. He also stated that management likes the airplane and more might well be acquired, but the speculation he’s heard about a huge order for Group 1 airplanes is unfounded.

 

[A320 Driver]

A little luvthe9 note-

Q – Is it true that US Airways told the USAPA and APA Boards at their joint meeting that the E-190 would not be used to replace Group 2 Aircraft flying?

A – Yes, on Thursday, Feb 21 in Ft Worth, US Airways President Scott Kirby said the plan is not to replace current Group II flying with the E-190, but that the E-190 would be growth flying consisting of flying that would otherwise go to regional airlines. He also stated that management likes the airplane and more might well be acquired, but the speculation he’s heard about a huge order for Group 1 airplanes is unfounded.

Luv and his buddies need something to be afraid of so they can sow that around the pilot group to control them. It's very effective. PHX isn't going anywhere. 190 flying will eventually get around all of the system if they intend to replace regional flying with them. That includes PHX. I think that is where a lot of our mainline growth will come from. But I don't see it replacing 73s or A320.

 

[Claxon]

Insisting upon fair and equitable treatment as a dues paying union member is only considered a "scorched earth policy" by mustachioed, Tom Sellack wannabe hillbillie scabs. SYICMF!! Bring your water wings, you're going down for good this time.

Res, you are getting scary again. You need to be polygraphed you tell so many stories. Louie Freeh himself should do it so Leonidas can't compromise it.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

We're now being squeezed for another .5%. At least they have a choice.

Yep. Ironic. When AOL needs more moneys for pending litigation, they ask for donations. When USAPA needs more moneys because of pending litigation, they require YOU to give them a raise!

Seriously, the short term rise in dues was appropriate based on current events.

Greeter

 

[Walmartgreeter]

SYICMF!! Bring your water wings, you're going down for good this time.

Agreed, we will see you in court. The real question is will you be able to drive to the courthouse?

I think an airplane ride will be required. Unless the BK proceedings somehow move to Phoenix.

Greeter

 

[Bill Brasky]

More money spent, well yes but in the grand scheme I'm out 5k and how much have you left on the table in the 8 years? My W2 was north of $170k for the last 5 years, yours?

The bumbling puppet reps just gave us another pay cut with a huge amount of $$ in the bank heading into the sunset of this so called onion.

I'm happy investing in assuring the agreement that BOTH groups accepted so many years ago is actually put in place.

PD

You selfish SOB. You have folks furloughed and you're flying over your minimum? What a useless piece of crap you are. No, a better word is SCAB!

 

[Bill Brasky]

!

 

[snapthis]

Of course they are the minority, but it's like oil...a little goes a long way. Every time someone denies a jumpseat, it goes around the system like wildfire. I can't believe anyone would do it for any reason other than the J/S rider being a total jerk about it. We've all had that at one point or another...we just tell them to take a seat in the back....WAY back. But we don't turn them away.

I may not like the system, USAPA but I try not to hate the people who support it. Sure, I'll go head to head with you guys, take a few jabs myself, walk away thinking good one. I'll dig up a funny and throw it back at you.

If you walk away from the forum, let it ruin your day, take it out on someone else, you probably don't need to be here.

 

[end_of_alpa]

I may not like the system, USAPA but I try not to hate the people who support it. Sure, I'll go head to head with you guys, take a few jabs myself, walk away thinking good one. I'll dig up a funny and throw it back at you.

If you walk away from the forum, let it ruin your day, take it out on someone else, you probably don't need to be here.

Would you say that this line of thought is more representative of the majority of West pilots or that of Res and Nic, (eg. calling us scabs)?

Secondly, regarding the latest in the round of lawsuits, seems Marty, if he read the MOU, knew that it superseded the TA in the following:

"The MOU itself is a breach of the duty of fair representation because it provides substantially better pay to US Airways pilots without requiring pilot integration using the Nicolau Award seniority list. See Addington v. US Airline Pilots Ass’n, No. 2:08-CV-1633-PHX-NVW, 2009 WL 2169164, at *30 (“The duty of fair representation requires USAPA and any successor union to bargain for the implementation of the Nicolau Award.).

Although the MOU allows USAPA to implement the Nicolau Award, it does not require it to do so. Regardless, USAPA is steadfastly refusing to even consider doing so. Indeed, on March 6, 2012, it filed an adversary proceeding, Case No. 11-15463-SHL, in the Southern District of New York against Leonidas, LLC, in a flawed effort to deter the West Pilots from taking action to compel USAPA to adhere to its duty. A. Jacob, Decl., at ¶ 7 (providing copy of complaint). In that flawed action, USAPA seeks to enjoin Leonidas (not these Plaintiffs or the West Pilot class as a whole) from filing such litigation. That action is flawed because Leonidas neither has standing nor intention to file any such litigation. But, the West Pilots have both and they have done so here."

So IF Marty KNEW this before hand and encouraged all of you to vote overwhelmingly for the MOU where will his law firm stand if you lose?

Secondly, Leonidas is, in plain sight, a corporation and is THE entity, not the class, that is the party responsible for legal actions. NO? What is telling is the money trail and that is the key.

 

[snapthis]

Would you say that this line of thought is more representative of the majority of West pilots or that of Res and Nic, (eg. calling us scabs)?

Secondly, regarding the latest in the round of lawsuits, seems Marty, if he read the MOU, knew that it superseded the TA in the following:



So IF Marty KNEW this before hand and encouraged all of you to vote overwhelmingly for the MOU where will his law firm stand if you lose?

Secondly, Leonidas is, in plain sight, a corporation and is THE entity, not the class, that is the party responsible for legal actions. NO? What is telling is the money trail and that is the key.

I look at it this way. I'll give you a recent example. I like going to the blackjack tables and was walking up as a patron pounded his fist on the table screaming at the female dealer. I started to say something to him, thought better of it, my luck I'd be the one thrown out. It was best to just leave it alone.

The anger is real on both sides. People deal with it differently. My personal opinion is the message gets lost when you scream at each other. I think use of certain terms is a way of dealing with that anger. I'm not a Cactus 18er but if I went through that ordeal, I would be very upset. I think lynyrd skynyrd was a Cactus 18 defendant and handles himself well.

As far as the seniority dispute is concerned, I think PiBrat said something along the lines of whoever has the best lawyers. It's a poker game, win or lose, I don't want to make a scene like that guy at the blackjack table.

 

[end_of_alpa]

I look at it this way. I'll give you a recent example. I like going to the blackjack tables and was walking up as a patron pounded his fist on the table screaming at the female dealer. I started to say something to him, thought better of it, my luck I'd be the one thrown out. It was best to just leave it alone.

The anger is real on both sides. People deal with it differently. My personal opinion is the message gets lost when you scream at each other. I think use of certain terms is a way of dealing with that anger. I'm not a Cactus 18er but if I went through that ordeal, I would be very upset. I think lynyrd skynyrd was a Cactus 18 defendant and handles himself well.

As far as the seniority dispute is concerned, I think PiBrat said something along the lines of whoever has the best lawyers. It's a poker game, win or lose, I don't want to make a scene like that guy at the blackjack table.

Wow. Refreshing. Funny, but I could have wrote the same thing, which means that maybe we agree??

 

[Pi brat]

Would you say that this line of thought is more representative of the majority of West pilots or that of Res and Nic, (eg. calling us scabs)?

Secondly, regarding the latest in the round of lawsuits, seems Marty, if he read the MOU, knew that it superseded the TA in the following:



So IF Marty KNEW this before hand and encouraged all of you to vote overwhelmingly for the MOU where will his law firm stand if you lose?

Secondly, Leonidas is, in plain sight, a corporation and is THE entity, not the class, that is the party responsible for legal actions. NO? What is telling is the money trail and that is the key.

I think we had posters on here claiming that AOL wrote the language as a trap for USAPA, didn't we?

 

[Graceson]

Nobody but an idiot would believe that. Let's stop the cat and mouse. I'm saying we did have value and the current operation proves it. The potential was there and all we needed was time and somebody in charge that actually wanted to run an airline.

A point of logic few recognize.

Parker didn't modify the east unit cost structure or market. It was a turnkey operation for an executive ready to take the helm. Low risk, high probability as has since been demonstrated.

If Parker had left Americe West, recruited by Usair transition management, the end result would be the same -- a highly profitable standalone east unit, and thus career expections not based on organic (errant) assumptions, but more appropriately a high profit - high potential going concern lacking one and only one additional employee, which is a capable CEO.