Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Pi brat]

Well I thought usapa had 5 million in the bank, and the merger related expenses were to be paid for by the company per the MOU. Plus there is 2 mil for seniority integration.

So, why does usapa need to raise more money for merger related expenses that the company is supposed to pay?

Who will be the CBA, I do not know for sure, but the timeline suggest the possibility of single carrier status before the SLI. So, if that happens, it is unlikely it would be usapa.

If the judge freezes USAPA's accounts, wouldn't the extra funds be frozen too?

So you are suggesting that a new CBA come in and go against the wishes of those it is now representing? NOOO! USAPA will just go to court and get an injunction and file a DFR and file a DJ.................

 

[A320 Driver]

Well I thought usapa had 5 million in the bank, and the merger related expenses were to be paid for by the company per the MOU. Plus there is 2 mil for seniority integration.

So, why does usapa need to raise more money for merger related expenses that the company is supposed to pay?

Who will be the CBA, I do not know for sure, but the timeline suggest the possibility of single carrier status before the SLI. So, if that happens, it is unlikely it would be usapa.

Why does AOL need you to turn over your profit sharing checks to them?

 

[nic4us]

Oh, and you think they like the Nic? Think again, junior boy. And, don't worry, if it goes to an arbitrator, no one is going to be submitting a list with the Nic in it. Count on it.

I really do not care if the APA likes the Nic or not.

I do not like their list, but it is what it is and that is what is getting integrated with our list...I.e. The Nic

 

[nic4us]

Why does AOL need you to turn over your profit sharing checks to them?

AOL has not asked anyone to turn over their profit sharing check.

Contributions are the individuals choice, and contrary to Hummel's assertion, AOL represents the West.

 

[Black Swan]

The difference between you and me as the fact I actually read the transcripts and go to the courthouse. If I have a question, I ask the attorney and not from any attorney USAPA has hired or fired.

The info that I referred to was the 9th Court of Appeals ruling, not a USAPA attorney. It was not an opinion,but an actual ruling. It said you have no contract, therefore your harm is speculative at the point of ruling.
I am asking you, what is any different now from that situation? You still do not have a JCBA that is your trigger for harm. As I stated before, you cannot sue a person for damages in an auto accident or slip and fall before the event. You cannot sue a union for damages before you get damaged. You have to wait until you do or do not get what you consider damaging, and that is the Nic or no Nic. And it cannot be conjecture of possibly not getting it, you have to go into a JCBA and exit without the Nic. (Theoretically, USAPA could go right to the end with a DOH proposal, then change it to the Nic. )
Then you have to also convince someone that not getting that actually constitutes damage.
I am honestly astonished your counsel would take you into this position having been subjected to the 9 th ruling already. Their first reason for pursuing Addington was a perceived timeliness issue. What is the reason to go forward now with still no damaging event?

 

[Claxon]

Not in federal court...otherwise the scab union would have lost it's shirt, pants and shoes over that RICO fiasco.

That is why they never sued in state court like they said they would, the RICO defendants would have cleaned their clocks in state courts that have SLAPP laws.


BTW, the Nic is still the only system seniority list at LCC!

Specifically, why do you consider USAPA a scab union?

 

[Claxon]

Not in federal court...otherwise the scab union would have lost it's shirt, pants and shoes over that RICO fiasco.

That is why they never sued in state court like they said they would, the RICO defendants would have cleaned their clocks in state courts that have SLAPP laws.


BTW, the Nic is still the only system seniority list at LCC!

I am going to provide the Rico allegation brief soon. Why do you feel you would have cleaned USAPA's, "clocks"?

 

[A320 Driver]

AOL has not asked anyone to turn over their profit sharing check.

Contributions are the individuals choice, and contrary to Hummel's assertion, AOL represents the West.

Oh I beg to differ sir. I distinctly remember reading an AOL rag in a post a couple of days ago that said exactly that. It was prettier than the way I worded it. Something to the effect of...there can be no greater investment of your profit sharing checks than to fight the holy war against USAPA and the godless East pilots. I do agree that AOL represents the West. It is the West union. Reps, dues, legal, everything you need to have your own union...except, you say that nobody speaks for the West when it is suggested that a negotiation needs to take place. Very convenient.

 

[Claxon]

I really do not care if the APA likes the Nic or not.

I do not like their list, but it is what it is and that is what is getting integrated with our list...I.e. The Nic

You have a 2004 hire date in this merger. Most would be elated, but you want more for your mere void in the PHX Training Center loo in 2004.

 

[dca319]

Oh I beg to differ sir. I distinctly remember reading an AOL rag in a post a couple of days ago that said exactly that. It was prettier than the way I worded it. Something to the effect of...there can be no greater investment of your profit sharing checks than to fight the holy war against USAPA and the godless East pilots. I do agree that AOL represents the West. It is the West union. Reps, dues, legal, everything you need to have your own union...except, you say that nobody speaks for the West when it is suggested that a negotiation needs to take place. Very convenient.

We're now being squeezed for another .5%. At least they have a choice.

 

[Claxon]

Not in federal court...otherwise the scab union would have lost it's shirt, pants and shoes over that RICO fiasco.

That is why they never sued in state court like they said they would, the RICO defendants would have cleaned their clocks in state courts that have SLAPP laws.

Okay, let us start from the beginning. http://www.planebusiness.com/buzz/awausapa.pdf

We will work our way forward when you announce that the Rico was lost in appeals. At that time I will send the judges order, allow me to paraphrase now, "That although the acts are illegal in other courts, it does not fall under the Rico statute"

Ready, begin.

 

[A320 Driver]

We're now being squeezed for another .5%. At least they have a choice.

I do agree with that. Wonder how many reps they can put on FPL for that. Maybe throw in a few stipends to boot. This whole thing sucks.

 

[Claxon]

I do agree with that. Wonder how many reps they can put on FPL for that. Maybe throw in a few stipends to boot. This whole thing sucks.

Why did not, your present thoughts about unions, devour your moral core when you were with alpa? How existential.

 

[cactusboy53]

Why did not, your present thoughts about unions, devour your moral core when you were with alpa? How existential.

Are you a little panicked tonight, Cupcake? Hey, why don't you post that YouTube video that we haven't seen in about 10 posts?

 

[snapthis]

Okay, let us start from the beginning. http://www.planebusiness.com/buzz/awausapa.pdf

We will work our way forward when you announce that the Rico was lost in appeals. At that time I will send the judges order, allow me to paraphrase now, "That although the acts are illegal in other courts, it does not fall under the Rico statute"

Ready, begin.

OK, I'll bite: Another defeat for "tyranny of the majority"

Source:
http://cactus18.typepad.com/the_cactus_18/2010/07/fourth-circuit-rules-we-win.html

July 30, 2010

On May 30, 2008 a RICO law suit was filed against me and 23 other America West pilots by our new union Us Airline Pilots Association. After being dismissed from federal court with prejudice without even going to trial. The case was so poor the judge would not even let them try again. USAPA than filed an appeal in the Fourth Circuit court of Appeals in Richmond.
Today 26 months later we finally have our answer. The Fourth Circuit in a unanimous decision upheld or affirmed the district court. This is a tremendous win for all of the Cactus 18 today. Hopefully this will put an end to the vicious and unfounded attack that the leadership of USAPA has aimed our way. Unfortunately I fear that this case may not be over.
USAPA is under pressure to deliver a contract and after two years of telling the pilots that we were criminals and had done something wrong. After spending upwards of $300,000.00 of pilot dues money they have nothing to show for it.
This is the response that the Communications Chairman put out after their loss.
Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond Affirms Dismissal

Today the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Virginia, issued its ruling on USAPA's appeal of the dismissal of its lawsuit brought in 2008. USAPA filed the suit, alleging violations of the RICO Statute, against certain pilots who were alleged to be engaged in an overt attempt to deny all US Airways pilots their right to collectively bargain by attempting to destroy our union and performing other harmful and destructive acts to disrupt the union’s ability to perform its representational responsibilities. The appeals court today affirmed the dismissal. Attorneys for the Association are reviewing the ruling presently for potential next steps.

Even after losing twice in two different courts in their own backyard these guys still can not admit they were wrong and let it go. The right thing to do would be to apologize and maybe even offer to pay our legal fees for this ordeal. But in typical fashion USAPA threatens to continue the attack and division.
Since this case went to appeal USAPA has been threatening to file in State court of North Carolina if we did not accept some lame settlement deal and admit quilt. It is extremely hard to admit guilt to something that none of us did. Now the courts support that truth, we did not engage in any RICO activity.
The Cactus 18 will have little choice but to defend ourselves again. But unlike last time when we had to educate our pilots on the evil that was being done and explain that we truly were innocent. This time we have the full support of the entire west pilot group and we are beginning to gather support from the east line pilot also. If the USAPA leadership decides to continue on this ill-advised campaign we will go on the offensive and counter sue.
Currently our lawyers are investigating the possibilities of legal action to recover our costs. But if USAPA decides to make the fatal mistake of filing any further legal action we will be forced to not only collect damages but punitive damages also.
A malicious intent law suit would cost this union and the people responsible a load of money.
To bring this journey to an end I want to thank the other Cactus 18 member and the AWAPPA guys. We all stuck together through some extremely critical decisions at any time any of us could have caved in to the pressure and taken a dangerous deal. But we all stuck together and rode out the storm. I would also like to thank my fellow west pilots that supported us during the case. Your words of encouragement and financial support were critical in our success. Also I would like to thank everyone that took the time to read this blog. Hopefully it explained what was going on with this case as it is difficult to do in a short amount of time.
Thank you all.