Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

I hate to burst your bubble...well, not really... but here is the information the US passenger service union posted on its thread for its membership. Same rules, remember? Not everything is germane to the pilots, but it gives insight into the operations of the NMB in determining single-carrier status. Note: they mention it can take upward of a year.

Also, your are wrong on the 65% rule meaning no election. See the quote from the AFA-CWA website (from the CAL/UAL merger, but still "same rules," remember). If at least 35% of the membership does not show interest in another union, the "big union doesn't automatically win. There has to be a balloting with APA, USAPA and "No Union" choices. Bingo! Given the time it will take to determine single-carrier AND the time to do the balloting, the SLI will be long over according to the MOU timeline.







[/size][/color]

What am I missing? My point is that when the NMB determines that the APA is the bargaining agent usapa goes away, completely and immediately not until after the JCBA or M/B integration. Nothing in your posts says any differently.

It COULD take up to a year. Your question was what is to stop the APA from delaying. My answer is the MOU. Nothing controls the NMB but the MOU controls the APA.

As far as the 35%. All of the Us Airways pilots do not equal 35%. So even if even single Us AIrways pilots showed interest in usapa they still are not on the ballet. So your choice is APA or no union.

 

[cleardirect]

[font=Arial'][font=Arial']The rules actually changed at the beginning of the year. If we desire, there indeed would be a representational election. I don't think it will even need to happen, but there are some interesting scenarios to consider in that regard.

That said, there is no concern that USAPA will somehow disappear during the M/B process, at least in terms of that single job. USAPA will represent US Airways pilots in M/B until there is a single list.

Greeter[/font][/font]

I ask again. Cite the law or rule that allows the former bargaining agent to remain in control or retain any authority.

When the APA becomes the bargaining agent for ALL new American pilots usapa is gone. Replaced by APA. There is no waiting for the M/B process to finish. No waiting for the JCBA to finish.

What law can you quote that supports your theory?

 

[Beancounter]

......and Paul "DOH or death" Music on the BPR.

I was kind of thinking the same thing. Didn't the east put the DOH jihadists on the BPR? If I had to guess, they've already removed the steering wheel and are at this moment super gluing the accelerator down.

Bean

 

[cleardirect]

What exactly changed at the beginning of the year?

Since there are two unions in the mix, isn't a ballot required at least for those unions? We all know the outcome, but USAPA could keep itself alive by demanding a ballot. That will take forever.

If you can't reach the 35% threshold you don't get on the ballot. All the US Airways pilots do not make 35%. Do you think that all the Us Airways pilots would even vote to put usapa on the ballot?

 

[Beancounter]

The rules actually changed at the beginning of the year. If we desire, there indeed would be a representational election. I don't think it will even need to happen, but there are some interesting scenarios to consider in that regard.

That said, there is no concern that USAPA will somehow disappear during the M/B process, at least in terms of that single job. USAPA will represent US Airways pilots in M/B until there is a single list.

Greeter

Greeter,

I just have to ask. What you're saying makes sense. USAPA has to be around to represent the US pilots during seniority negotiations. You can't have the APA take over and just tell the US pilots what the seniority list is right? If that's the case, then why do you think USAPA ever had the right after taking over, to ignore the Nic, and then just create a new list? Do you see what I'm saying?

Bean

 

[A320 Driver]

I hear you, having had a front row seat on the previous affair. But I have a little more optimism this time. Funny you should mention Ciabattoni, he was the one advocating a hard line approach as opposed to the current MOU. He did NOT prevail this time. A more reasoned approach won out.

Just as the BPR came around when they finally figured out what the MOU was all about, they will also adapt when shown some conditions and restrictions that will make most come out ok in the long run, and nobody get a true windfall. It is doable, even more so if the APA guys discuss ALL options (behind closed doors, of course!) Lots of work ahead, don't think the Merger committee is the place to be if you are timid!

Greeter

I hope you are right and I am wrong. After watching the antics of the CLT reps in the hall after the NAC presentations, I have no confidence they will do anything but make a mess. Like I said...I hope I am wrong.

 

[dca319]

I hope you are right and I am wrong. After watching the antics of the CLT reps in the hall after the NAC presentations, I have no confidence they will do anything but make a mess. Like I said...I hope I am wrong.

Our history would make the chances of you being correct very high. With the angry guys on power, they'll be more effective helping the west - much like Cleary.

 

[snapthis]

Yes, they are really hard to spot when they drive up on their pink Vespas, with matching leather jackets and helmets.

We'll be careful. Don't you worry yourself one little bit.

Yes, they are really hard to spot when they drive up on their pink Vespas, with matching leather jackets and helmets.

We'll be careful. Don't you worry yourself one little bit.

Were you the guy who knows some of your friends in NY who were going to take care of us Westies?

I'll order you and your friends a round of Shirley Temples.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/__Y7Xh3LOr_U/TGx1AKJbndI/AAAAAAAABys/_DED_8LXGdA/s1600/village_people_1%5B1%5D.jpg

 

[Claxon]

Careful. You sound a bit to west-ish for most here on the board. Where's Pi?

What restraint Move! In the past it would have been " where's Hair Pi?"

 

[Claxon]

I call it like I see it as well but if Pi doesn't know you personally or you're not in Gunter's inner circle then they sick the Admiral after you. It was never going to be DOH because AoL alone kept that off that table. APA won't touch it either even with fences. And they're not goi g to inherit a DFR either. Nothing left bit Nicolau.

Sure, and there is a Move2clt in your future.

 

[Claxon]

ClearFergie is going to be engaged heavily on all fronts. The Army of Lyingitas has made a poor tactical move and positioned themselves between AA, LCC and WallStreet money. Stand by. Despite the crowings of ResJudicata and Snap this, the Army is about to be wiped off the face of the earth. About time. History does repeat.
Kevin Horner aka Metroyet. What say you?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Were you the guy who knows some of your friends in NY who were going to take care of us Westies?

I'll order you and your friends a round of Shirley Temples.

http://2.bp.blogspot...people_1[1].jpg

Are you old enough to order drinks like that? You're certainly not mature enough for anything more than a round of Enfamil. Hasn't mommy weaned you yet?

 

[cleardirect]

ClearFergie is going to be engaged heavily on all fronts. The Army of Lyingitas has made a poor tactical move and positioned themselves between AA, LCC and WallStreet money. Stand by. Despite the crowings of ResJudicata and Snap this, the Army is about to be wiped off the face of the earth. About time. History does repeat.
Kevin Horner aka Metroyet. What say you?

I believe that judge Lane already told usapa to go pound sand once in his courtroom. The last time usapa tried to get in on the BK action.

Have you even heard of the concept of ripeness?

From usapa filing.

40. Therefore, USAPA is entitled to entry of an order declaring that Defendant
improperly interfered with the Bankruptcy Court’s jurisdiction and mandate by announcing its
intention to file an action.

Now usapa thinks that just the intention of something is good enough for a federal judge to issue an injunction. But actually handing over a proposed DOH list and passing a C&BL rejecting the Nicolau is not ripe and has not caused harm yet.

Another waste of money. It is usapa that will be scaring the investors not the west pilots.

The waste of time filing will be dismissed just like the RICO case and the EDNY status quo law suit. O'Dwyer has a poor track record but a great billing record.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Greeter,

I just have to ask. What you're saying makes sense. USAPA has to be around to represent the US pilots during seniority negotiations. You can't have the APA take over and just tell the US pilots what the seniority list is right? If that's the case, then why do you think USAPA ever had the right after taking over, to ignore the Nic, and then just create a new list? Do you see what I'm saying?

Bean

[font=Arial']The Nic is ignored because it ceased to be a bargaining position once ALPA took a powder. Plus, as you guys ratified by an enormous margin, we have a side agreement (the MOU) that prevents APA from taking over the process. USAPA will not determine the "new list," that will come from either negotiations with APA, or possibly arbitration.[/font]

[font=Arial']Too bad you chose Nic or nothing. I think you have left a lot on the table by not realizing the Nic is dead. Right now, I think your access to WB aircraft going forward will be limited.. But I have no say, so no worries for you.[/font]

[font=Arial']Greeter[/font]

 

[dca319]

Greeter,

I just have to ask. What you're saying makes sense. USAPA has to be around to represent the US pilots during seniority negotiations. You can't have the APA take over and just tell the US pilots what the seniority list is right? If that's the case, then why do you think USAPA ever had the right after taking over, to ignore the Nic, and then just create a new list? Do you see what I'm saying?

Bean

Situational ethics?