Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

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dca319 said:
Hello Colonel. Glad you can get your 2 cents in. I can now go on with my day.
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A minor point of absurdity within your vainly attempted "east" pilot persona is the fact that a great many out east have served. Most all east respect that, and your flippant BS only serves to further blow your attempted cover. Precious few out east could ever imagine themselves to be "spartans" or "knights". ;)

Dismissed....little "dire wolf".
 
This recent filing the Hummel talk about - there's so much wrong with it and much of it doesn't make any sense. Why is Hummel trying to tie in SLI with this MOU when the NAC made it perfectly clear that they were mutually exclusive of each other? And didn't Lane just tell us to screw off with this last denial and to stay out of the bankruptcy process?
 
traderjake, on 06 March 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

Somebody is getting desperate.

dca: That they are. And VERY much so.

dca319 said:
Kind of hypocritical to post that considering we've voluntarily stayed on LOA 93 for a decade.
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Ah! I see...so...it's now back to "we've"? What so quckly happened to "they"? :) A suggested life behavior is to tell the the truth. It's easier to remember.

dca319: "You sound a bit to west-ish.." Another unknowing Tell you offer is the inability to distinguish between "to" and too, which is a signature trademark of a number of west posters.
 
dca319 said:
Careful. You sound a bit to west-ish for most here on the board. Where's Pi?
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Just calling it as I see it. I can't see the arbitrators signing off on DOH, but that is simply my own conjecture and nothing more. Although the Ninth did not foresee our current circumstances, this is exactly what they were getting at when they invoked ripeness. In the end, if this goes to arbitration, there may very well be a list that is not "harmful" to the west. The fact is, all the risk is now on the east side. The game is totally changed and I think the west pilots are bonkers by not letting it play out. Sure, it's a do-over of sorts, but it will probably resemble the Nic when the ink is dry. Again, MY slightly geriatric OPINION. If I'm losing my senses, then maybe I can qualify for arbitrator school to be ready to step in when Nicolau retires.
 
nycbusdriver said:
it will be slotted. I doubt there is little question there. I also doubt it will be nearly as ugly as the Nicolau list, but who knows.

If it goes to arbitration, it would seem that USAPA is obligated to argue DOH. But, I am beginning to wonder if the Merger Committee could not unilaterally move off of a strict DOH proposal to the three arbitrators (depending on what seems to be receptive to them.) If they did violate their own C&B-Ls, the only real downside would be a DFR from east pilots. By the time it got heard, USAPA would be gone, and the APA is not now, nor will be, bound by USAPA C&B-Ls. Any lawsuit would be dismissed due to lack of a defendant. This might give the USAPA MC some leeway in the arbitration.

There is not a chance in hell that the arbitration would be something other than slotted. The best shot the east pilots have at capturing attrition would be to fight for high fences. And I think the APA wil be advocating that, too.

I suppose there is even a chance at a negotiated list with the USAPA MC bending their rules in the same manner.

If USAPA comes off DOH, there is little legal downside since they will be gone fairly promptly after the SLI is in place, and we know there can be no DFR until it is ripe.
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Since the BPR is made up primarily of hardliners now, what are the chances that the MC would have any latitude at all? We saw this last time. It resulted in the NIC. It is an all or nothing mindset with the odds stacked against them...but odds they seem comfortable with.
 
cleardirect said:
Does the NMB have different rules for different situations?

Like if it is single carrier or national union or multiple carriers?

Or does the NMB apply the same rules to every election? When the NMB make a determination that a union has won do they allow the losing union to hang around for awhile, collect dues and negotiate?

Does being in the middle of a merger matter? the NMB did not delay approving usapa in the middle of our merger why would they change the rules now?

No when the APA is approved as the single bargaining agent usapa is gone. Completely and quickly.
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What in the world makes you think the APA will call an election before the McCaskill-Bond process is complete? Talk about lawsuits....

If there is to be an election, I doubt any east pilot will even bother to vote. I won't. What's the point? I am perfectly content to be represented by the APA, or USAPA, or the Teamsters. The only thing that would make me consider voting is if ALPA is on the ballot. Then I would DEFINITELY cast a ballot for APA.

You guys are over there doing your sick little dance on USAPA's grave to what end? Assuming the merger gets its government approvals, APA as bargaining agent is a done deal. But it won't happen until McCaskill-Bond is complete. If APA attempted to circumvent Mc-B, they would get sued. And the NMB has to abide by federal law also.
 
A320 Driver said:
Since the BPR is made up primarily of hardliners now, what are the chances that the MC would have any latitude at all? We saw this last time. It resulted in the NIC. It is an all or nothing mindset with the odds stacked against them...but odds they seem comfortable with.
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I don't know what the USAPA C&B-Ls say, but the MC at the previous bargaining agent had autonomous power to negotiate and didn't necessarily need to take the MEC's advice. But, they did. There is politics involved, and that MC was under great pressure by the membership to argue DOH with C&Rs. We all know how that worked.

You are correct in that we have hard-liners on the BPR, and depending on tomorrow's PHL election, they may actually regain the majority. But, I think the president is responsible for appointing committee chairmen. It will be interesting.

But my point is that the MC could come off DOH and violate its own C&B-Ls with little long-term ramifications (other than having to go fly with us crew dogs.) But, in light of the last DOH demands, I doubt the rank-and-file (there would be exceptions) would have too much heartburn over "bending the rules."

I am sure they are thinking some strategy, at least I hope they are. Just saying, "DOH, now let's go have dinner and drinks courtesy of the dues money," may not be any more successful this time than it was last time. But, who really knows? Three arbitrators, none of whom will be "Slot-em" Nicolau?
 
Pi brat said:
I've never heard of anyone on the AWAPPA board claiming to be NYCbusdriver...........
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This board is already too much of a time-killer for me. I have no inclination to even visit another aviation board. (Well, okay. Every few months I find myself on the very global PPRuNe.com boards, but our dirty laundry isn't discussed there.) I would absolutely NOT go to a westie board, or the CM "made-up-facts" circus...never even looked at any of them. I also belong to a very closed, very limited Yahoo group of east pilots who are mostly of like mind. It stays dormant most of the time. We don't get into the east vs. west thing, either.
 
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