Feb / Mar 2013 IAM Fleet Service Discussions

[freedom]

Again ill ask you freedom...will you ask and approve for self-help if needed.......very simple question because i would GLADLY!!! under these unique set of circumstances !!!! as you say.

hmmmm ... that's not up to me ..... that's up to our current union ... I don't sit at the table .... I as a good union worker go along with what my union choses to do .

 

[freedom]

The people who brought TWU to AWA constructed a contract that only benefited people with over 15 years. When I first started, there were few people with that much seniority. It was a small circle of hangers-on. At that time, if a person had two years, they were the senior people on the ramp. The overtime was awarded on seniority. That meant that the only ones making a somewhat "living wage" were the only ones being awarded overtime. You didn't see this much at PHX because they always had OT because all the low-pay agents were quitting en masse. At smaller stations, you would have a few senior people who took all the OT. What about the disparity in the pay scale?

hey i'm not saying it was the best contract in the world ... but everyone's got to start somewhere ..

 

[freedom]

If it was so terrible you should have just gotten another job with a livable wage. I survived on the $6.95/hour.



Yeah, you're right. The apathetic workers in PHX brought us those wages that weren't enough, so why are you throwing the jobs of people not in AZ under the bus to fix the PHX workers mistakes?

EDIT: Sorry, let off unexpectedly there. I'm not bashing the guys at PHX there. I'm bashing Freedom for his blame game of avoiding his own personal responsibility and ignorance.

i'm NOT avoiding my own personal responsibility ...... we had a choice before us and we made it .....

Where do you get that i'm avoiding what I did ? I've only said it like a thousand times on here ...

 

[mike33]

Mike 33,
It is true I ran for office awhile back. Had I been elected and appointed to the NC I would have resisted any outsourcing language being part of a TA. Primarily because I have seen first hand the devestating impact it has on our members. Additionally, because I work in an outline station. Most important of all though; I believe it goes against the grain and the very nature of organized labor of protecting all memers' jobs in the long run... especially those who will be directly affected. I do not fault our NC at US or UA; for I know how the politics of "selling" a TA, agreed to by the District Leadership, works. I just don't agree with conceding members' jobs. What I find disturbing, looking back, is this is a leadership team who criticized these same concessions and promised a "New Direction". I knew at the time this was a campaign promise that could not be fullfilled and so did they. In the meantime... more members jobs, careers and livelihoods will be lost. Nothing has changed.

I will not argue with a fair answer. I think you understand what I'm saying....even in negotiations not all agree and not all things lost are "Won Back" so easily. I certainly agree with you about outsourcing but what i dont agree with is the bashing of not getting it all back at once. Im not to familiar with UA's contract VS Continentals outsourcing language. Maybe what is in the TA is somewhere in the middle at least idk. I think using the "New Direction " slogan as a " not getting it done, you promised us more" thing is unfair.
You know as well as i that when you give up....it takes 2-3 times longer to get back, if you do at all....

im done
Peace Cargo!

 

[mike33]

hmmmm ... that's not up to me ..... that's up to our current union ... I don't sit at the table .... I as a good union worker go along with what my union choses to do .

accepted

 

[28L_or_10R?]

hey i'm not saying it was the best contract in the world ... but everyone's got to start somewhere ..

More proof that you will accept anything as long as it's something. You would accept a 10 cent pay raise, wouldn't you? That's what you asked Doug Parker for at that town hall meeting. I was there. I remember that. It appeared on The Hub and you looked like a mook to the guys out east.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Freedom, you ARE a hypocrite. You say UA should vote the TA down because of the potential outsourcing list. Fine, I'm cool with that. However, when it was the US contract and you got a raise it was OK. Is that not hypocritical? If you don't like beign called "hypocrite", fine. Try FLAMING IDIOT!!! It's not a new trick; YOU ALREADY VOTED FOR IT HERE! In fact, you PROVED that the trick works! You're so ignorant that you don't even see that you fell for it yourself!

And I pity the folks that have to work with him.

 

[Harry Callahan]

I don't need to justify my former position on that contract which had it's own unique set of circumstances ....

needless to say in any future contract , my position is AGAINST outsourcing any further stations ... if you guys can't cope with that , it's your problem not mine .

So freedum what happens when it's your turn to go ? How will you feel? Talk to me.

 

[freedom]

So freedum what happens when it's your turn to go ? How will you feel? Talk to me.

I will feel just like everyone who's turn it is feels ..... and from what I've been able to gather from people who've been doing this for 30 years or more ... a relocation seems to be inevitable at some point in one's career ... but no , i'm not looking forwards to that day .

 

[28L_or_10R?]

And I pity the folks that have to work with him.

In his defense, he does work and he is a pleasant person to work with. It's just when he gets on a keyboard he exposes himself as an imbecilic hypocrite that will throw everyone under the bus to get what he wants. Some people shouldn't be allowed on the Internet.

 

[Harry Callahan]

In his defense, he does work and he is a pleasant person to work with. It's just when he gets on a keyboard he exposes himself as an imbecilic hypocrite that will throw everyone under the bus to get what he wants. Some people shouldn't be allowed on the Internet.

Ok understand, agree & thanks.

 

[28L_or_10R?]

Ok understand, agree & thanks.

Let's just say that I wish I never knew that person and Freedumdum were one and the same. If you were to call me up and say, "How is Blah-Blah to work with?" and I didn't know he was Freedumdum, I would say Blah-Blah is aces. Great guy. But I know that he sold out his comrades and boasted, "GONNA PARTY LIKE A ROCK STAR!" when the TA passed.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Quite a disparity wouldn't you agree? Maybe it's time for US/AA to start contributing a more respectable amount. Meager contributors, such as US, is what weakens the fund. US/AA is, after all, the big boy on the block now. Time to ante up IMO. Just wanted to point out this disparity in contributions when discussing the pension.

The United defined pension sucked with the IAM. It was specially created as they couldn't get in under the plan "A". It was like $50 buck a month [full time topped out] but with their small pay raise bumping them up 11.5% over 7 years it should also give them a bump above $50. Ograc, the US AIRWAYS IAM Pension, IMO, is still better than the United pension 'on the whole' because theirs is based on a % of your wage, whereas the US AIRWAYS one is based on 'top out wage'. Thus, someone making $10 buck an hour still gets the full $1.10 per hour which is over 10%. The crappy part is that for some reason, the IAM negotiated a company contribution of almost half for part timers which, imo, are worth just as much as full timers. regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

Suppose you don't want to participate in the NPF? What options do you have? Do you have any options?

Everyone is looking at that UA TA and drooling over the numbers, but nothing about all those stations that have protection 'expiration' dates.

Sure,everything will be fine and dandy until December 31 2016, and what do you think UA management will give those stations for the new year? It won't be an "Attaboy!".

As I said in the other thread, if it passes,load up on the hours and take comfort in the fact you have recall rights for life...if you don't mind moving to a hub city.

Nobody is drooling over the new IAM TA at UA. At least not here in ORD. The contract is a compensation negative pact and another job losing pact, and in a lot of ways worse than yours at bankrupt American. In fact, it is so awful that they compare it to American then they claim it is industry leading and stick the gold star on it. regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

I will not argue with a fair answer. I think you understand what I'm saying....even in negotiations not all agree and not all things lost are "Won Back" so easily. I certainly agree with you about outsourcing but what i dont agree with is the bashing of not getting it all back at once. Im not to familiar with UA's contract VS Continentals outsourcing language. Maybe what is in the TA is somewhere in the middle at least idk. I think using the "New Direction " slogan as a " not getting it done, you promised us more" thing is unfair.
You know as well as i that when you give up....it takes 2-3 times longer to get back, if you do at all....

im done
Peace Cargo!

I don't think most folks will vote against or for a contract based on a promise or a prayer. That said, the UA TA is perhaps the worst TA that I have ever seen and that is saying a lot. As crazy as this sounds, the US and the AMR contracts have more stations that are protected and more work. And as far as the wage, getting 11.5% (sCO and customer service and res will get a lot less than 11.5%) from 2010-2017, which includes only a 2 percenter after the initial immediate raise, leaves quite a lot to be desired and no doubt it won't keep up with even non union Delta wage rates. As far as the work rules, again very sad. They abolish the part time cap and do a Rick Flair reversal but putting a bar on the current full time headcount. Disturbing indeed. regards,