Feb / Mar 2013 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Metroyet]

Think about it. Why do organizations seeking funds use movie stars and celebs? It is called using your best assets. Those two were just involved in a spectacular success. Why not use your two most visible assets. Why did St. Jude not call you instead of Sullenberger ? Same thing.

How did it work?

 

[Metroyet]

You really are stupid Kevin.

In the interest of clarity, and in good conscience, I have to remind you again that my name isn't Kevin. You've got the wrong guy.

 

[cleardirect]

Why Sullenberger and Skiles then? They could have called any of the other 5000 East Pilots that had NOTHING to do with the formation of USAPA.

What was USAPA attempting to do?

The court had a very clear understanding of what usapa was trying to do by putting Skiles and Sully on the stand. . They had no special knowledge of usapa. There were 3000 other east pilots that could have testified, usapa choose them because of the celebrity and tried to use that improperly.

(The following discussion was had at sidebar out of the hearing of the jury🙂

THE COURT: All right. Mr. Seham, on this issue of Mr. Skiles' celebrity status I want to give you the chance to explain why that is relevant to this case.

MR. SEHAM: Okay. It's not about his celebrity status. He's an individual who directly benefitted from USAPA's array of service. Their contention is that this union is a one trick pony, that it was only ever about one issue. If that is no longer a contention of the plaintiffs, then we'd have no interest in pursuing this kind of testimony. But, in fact, USAPA is about providing a better service, and that provision of the better service is in the interests of the entire bargaining unit, which is directly relevant to the concept of a DFR, that this union was needed to provide service to this bargaining unit that it could not, was not, would never get from ALPA.

THE COURT: All right. I've given you the chance to make your record. You've given me no reason why the reference to the events of the crash in the Hudson River is relevant to this case, and I will make my record that it is irrelevant, it is highly distracting, it is an indirect attempt to appeal to emotion, and I exclude it for those reasons under 403 in a very clear way.
MR. SEHAM: I -- I sincerely thank you for the opportunity to make the record.

BTW! How has the providing better service worked out for any of us? The highest dues in the industry. The least service. Multiple very expensive law suit initiated by usapa. An injunction. No contract until the APA came along. Yes usapa is a one trick pony. Everything they do is to steal seniority and harm the west.

I will compare ALPA services to usapa's services any day. Hands down no matter how much you hate ALPA there is no question ALPA is better and cheaper.

 

[luvthe9]

In the interest of clarity, and in good conscience, I have to remind you again that my name isn't Kevin. You've got the wrong guy.

No, We think all the evidence points to you Kevin.

 

[cleardirect]

No, We think all the evidence points to you Kevin.

"We" Your multiple personalities popping up again?

Why is it YOU never have an opinion? Does someone always have to give you your thoughts?

Weak minded pawn.

 

[luvthe9]

"We" Your multiple personalities popping up again?

Why is it YOU never have an opinion? Does someone always have to give you your thoughts?

Weak minded pawn.

We, as in a group of us have fun doing this. MY opinion is you lose, get it NO Nic, you happy now..

 

[700UW]

First of all I am not out on the street, I left US on my own terms and accord.

Went to work at a major truck building company, then for a major cigarette manufacturer making more than I did at US, and help start a business which I help run and doing very well, thanks for your concern.

And how many people died in the ValuJet crash because of Dynair's mistake on paperwork, their mechanics not properly disarming the O2 generators and the ramp loading it?

And I dont discredit a pilot for their knowledge, but that autopilot sure does a lot of your work, I have witnessed pilots refuse every plane where the autopilot was inop.

Every mechanics, ramper and stock clerk is a link in the safety net, guess they didnt show you the ValuJet case in MRM?

We had and it was amazing how many links in the chain could have prevented that terrible accident.

And I wonder what the statistics on the cause of crashes are, ie pilot error, or maintenance or weather.

Bottom line is I dont discredit Sully for his amazing feat of 1549, he was used by usapa and wasnt anymore qualified to testify on the DFR than any pilot on this board.

 

[Black Swan]

First of all I am not out on the street, I left US on my own terms and accord.

Went to work at a major truck building company, then for a major cigarette manufacturer making more than I did at US, and help start a business which I help run and doing very well, thanks for your concern.

And how many people died in the ValuJet crash because of Dynair's mistake on paperwork, their mechanics not properly disarming the O2 generators and the ramp loading it?

And I dont discredit a pilot for their knowledge, but that autopilot sure does a lot of your work, I have witnessed pilots refuse every plane where the autopilot was inop.

Every mechanics, ramper and stock clerk is a link in the safety net, guess they didnt show you the ValuJet case in MRM?

We had and it was amazing how many links in the chain could have prevented that terrible accident.

And I wonder what the statistics on the cause of crashes are, ie pilot error, or maintenance or weather.

Bottom line is I dont discredit Sully for his amazing feat of 1549, he was used by usapa and wasnt anymore qualified to testify on the DFR than any pilot on this board.

Well Pat Boone and Senator Fred Thompson aren't more qualified than the typical reverse mortgage salesman either. Neither is Fonzi. But they sell them every day. Sully is a personable and articulate person. He just pulled off a successful landing in an emergency. He more than fit the bill.

 

[700UW]

Sully did not negotiate the merger agreement, never participated in the arbitration.

He even admitted so.

He had no first hand knowledge, so he wasnt a credible witness in regards to the DFR.

And in those commercials it is posted that they are a paid spokesperson for what they are selling and not an expert.

Try again.

 

[Black Swan]

Sully did not negotiate the merger agreement, never participated in the arbitration.

He even admitted so.

He had no first hand knowledge, so he wasnt a credible witness in regards to the DFR.

And in those commercials it is posted that they are a paid spokesperson for what they are selling and not an expert.

Try again.

No, I really am not going to play your game.
Bottom line is it was a sham trial that never should have taken place. There was no contract and therefore no harm, no DFR. The 9 th tossed the entire mess in the trash.

 

[700UW]

So now you are a lawyer, and a judge?

A jury of impartial people found usapa in violation, and yes the appeals court ruled it wasnt ripe.

Bottom line is Sully is not a merger, or seniority or arbitration expert, he had no participation in the arbitration and was not a union rep.

He was used.

 

[A320 Driver]

A jury of impartial people found usapa in violation, and yes the appeals court ruled it wasnt ripe.

A jury that had been unduly influenced and instructed by the judge. The 9th did Wake a favor. What judge starts talking about damages in front of a jury before a trial is over? Why wouldn't he let the jury see the particulars in the NIC? My guess is he will be a lot more careful this time around if it ends up in his courtroom.

 

[Metroyet]

A jury that had been unduly influenced and instructed by the judge. The 9th did Wake a favor. What judge starts talking about damages in front of a jury before a trial is over? Why wouldn't he let the jury see the particulars in the NIC? My guess is he will be a lot more careful this time around if it ends up in his courtroom.

My guess is he delivers a summary Judgement from the bench after one round of oral arguments. USCABA probably won't like the decision. There's nothing left to discuss. If they find this latest action isn't ripe for some stupid reason, then The West will just file after every turn of events...over and over until the magic Ripeness event triggers. I believe that event happened on Feb. 8 and will be locked into place at the POR. Either way, USAPA is 50 knots under V1 with 1000' remaining and losing it fast. Can't wait to watch the crash we all know is coming.

 

[end_of_alpa]

First of all I am not out on the street, I left US on my own terms and accord.

Went to work at a major truck building company, then for a major cigarette manufacturer making more than I did at US, and help start a business which I help run and doing very well, thanks for your concern.

And how many people died in the ValuJet crash because of Dynair's mistake on paperwork, their mechanics not properly disarming the O2 generators and the ramp loading it?

And I dont discredit a pilot for their knowledge, but that autopilot sure does a lot of your work, I have witnessed pilots refuse every plane where the autopilot was inop.

Every mechanics, ramper and stock clerk is a link in the safety net, guess they didnt show you the ValuJet case in MRM?

We had and it was amazing how many links in the chain could have prevented that terrible accident.

And I wonder what the statistics on the cause of crashes are, ie pilot error, or maintenance or weather.

Bottom line is I dont discredit Sully for his amazing feat of 1549, he was used by usapa and wasnt anymore qualified to testify on the DFR than any pilot on this board.

Well, if you knew WHY they refused it is was generally because of the MEL, which I know YOU don't know what that is. Don't tell me you do, because I have it sitting in front of me and you don't know what your talking about.

Secondly, we don't have MRM. We have the NTSB accident reports, which we DO read and review. We as pilots call it Crew resourse management, which, BTW, WE pioneered.

As far as the accident statistics, you bet, pilot error IS the number one cause of accidents, but because we learnfrom the hard lessons of the past, a lot of those errrors are going down, like having operative auto pilots to keep the fatigue factor low.

Bottom line is, I don't discredit for people doing their job properly here at the airline, but quite frankly, I as a pilot AND legal reviewer I've been a heck of a lot more "right" including on this forum then you have ever been. You are certainly no Jeff and Sully, that's for sure. Go back to the future, there's nothing you know that can impart any more of your all knowing, all seeing crystal ball.

 

[A320 Driver]

My guess is he delivers a summary Judgement from the bench after one round of oral arguments. USCABA probably won't like the decision. There's nothing left to discuss. If they find this latest action isn't ripe for some stupid reason, then The West will just file after every turn of events...over and over until the magic Ripeness event triggers. I believe that event happened on Feb. 8 and will be locked into place at the POR. Either way, USAPA is 50 knots under V1 with 1000' remaining and losing it fast. Can't wait to watch the crash we all know is coming.

Keep your checkbook handy because you are not one bit closer now than when you were after the 9th threw the whole thing out. Read the part about harm and what it takes to trigger it. Or keep shooting blanks...your choice.