Feb / Mar 2013 IAM Fleet Service Discussions

[ograc]

informer,

Please kindly show where I said that robbedagain was mistaken about his grievance. The question to ograc was not in any way, shape, or form related to robbedagain and his grievance. Who looks like a fool in this instance? And I could care less what happens at UA, I DO NOT WORK THERE!...get it. But did RD PERSONALLY negotiate the UA T/A without any assistance from the UA NC? Did he personaly insist upon the class1/class2? How come nobody from the UA NC is being asked any questions about how they got to where they are with this T/A? Why did the UA NC agree to send the T/A out for a vote anyway? If they disagreed with it?Same goes for HA, I DO NOT WORK THERE EITHER...ergo, I don't care about THEIR CBA! Now informer, I think that you are in fact TN, just my opinion, what say that you pm me your cell number, and we can squash this whole duel handle thing once and for all shall we? Because, you post almost identical sayings, thoughts, ramblings as TN, just "dumbed down" a little. How about it. You up to the task of proving that you are in fact NOT TN?

PJ,
You seem to be very knowledgable regarding matters of the district and the past/present leadership. This no doubt comes as a result of being engaged, involved and informed. With that being said... I'm a little suprised by your postion of not caring less about what is happening at UA or what has happened at HA. Aren't you a little concerned that the agreements reached at both of these airlines by District 141 could be a fore warning of what can be expected at US? I don't work at UA or HA either but both agreements worry me as an IAM DL 141 US Fleet member. Why do you believe they will have no bearing or relevance concerning our negotiations? Are we not all members of the same district overseeing contract negotiations? Are we not all employed in the same craft/class and industry? Please explain why these past two agreements should be dismissed as irrelevant?

 

[IAM Informer]

How about we ask this Cargo since you are trying to disillusion so much!......If your ticket were elected would you do a better job? or.....would you say i THINK i could do a better job! Tim had it right !

" Well, nobody knows for sure what will transpire it's just that the leadership and AGC's haven't taken the prelim work to task yet."


He also assumes alot by saying they haven't done any prelim work.!

You couldnt prove either of those DFR type questions so why are you even asking for an absurd answer?
Remember! I believe there are going to be a lot of Y votes on that UA TA......that being said i may interject and cast a no for myself if i was UA but thats only because certain things arent good for me, but would be good for alot of other people.....So FAIR is a interpretaion issue and thats why it is absurd to ask it

Mike
Check out the latest from delaney
http://www.iam141.org/us/index.html
If you don't think what's going on over at UA isn't affecting our negotiations you are being seriously mislead your a smart guy and you do your research all Im saying is its not necessarily the teams fault but that of the head coach and its going to cost all US members in a negative way

 

[ograc]

ograc,

I asked how YOU would speed up the process. Not what you would suggest. How would YOU make the company hear grievances in a "timely" manner? What would YOU do if the company said no to a certain schedule that didn't fit your timeline? What recourse do you have in any of these situations? And have you called FO personally to discuss this grievance one on one?

My previous post states what I would. More specifically what I wouldn't. This alone would speed up the process by compling and adhering to the outlined grievance procedure in the CBA. It would give the grievant a better chance at being awarded the full remedial action sought instead of, for the sake of saving the district and the company money, agreeing to a lesser settlement. I do not call FO personally. The district assigned an acting AGC on FO's behalf. They did that for a reason. I communicate through and to my assigned acting AGC. I respect the district's protocol. I wish my assigned AGC could schedule arbitration... but apparently that is not the case.

 

[Tim Nelson]

You are a POS in my opinion because you threw away friendships you have had for years to advance YOUR political/union career. All because you had a hissy-fit because you didn't get your way. But sad as it is to admit, I am a little like you in one respect. If you ever were in a position of power within any union that represents US fleet, I would certainly work against you in every way possible, to the detrement of the members, which, IMO, is what you are doing here. And I am glad for all of the work you put in, in throwing canoli, and his merry band of misfits, out, it was/is greatly appreciated. No apology needed there. So to reiterate, yes I think you are a POS for putting friendships aside for personal gain, I think you are a detrement to the membership at US, and are succeeding in nothing more than dividing an already divided workgroup.

Me and you disagree but not in any case should you lower yourself and call any man a POS. I didn't put aside any friendships, I was hired by the membership to protect the union and build solidarity, and I did. And I'm not getting paid now but I'm still participating in the building of strong solidarity at United to rise up against an anti labor management offer. Friendships have nothing to do with it. Along the way, I set up NH as the lead AGC but he allowed Delaney to bit&^ slap him and instead of sticking together, he decided to attach himself to Alex who ended up castrating him. NH so much wouldn't get in my car and forgot a few things about what brought him there. I gave the kid a shot but he just didn't work out and turned on the members. It's tough in this business once money gets thrown at someone who otherwise wouldn't be making $40,000. When the AGC's met with Delaney, they had no balls and would let Delaney do whatever. Once at Placid Harbor, Frankie was getting bit&^ slapped by Delaney because he wanted Gill to get most of the work as opposed to Roth so on a smoking break, frank text me to come up to the Library to exert control over Delaney [we were there on an organizing seminar I taught on] and I entered the room and told Delaney how it was and that Gill would be the one that should be the choice between him and Roth. That's exactly how it was and I was too strong for Delaney when those guys stuck with me with common things. At the end of the day, I simply could not organize for Delaney anymore since he betrayed the United employees. Atkinson called me and we had dinner the night before I got fired as Delaney instructed Atkinson to negotiate with me. But nothing could be reconciled since I couldn't work with management types. As far as NH, I courtesycalled him a month before I got fired but he told me he would always support Rich because Rich was his boss. Nobody put whatever friendship was involved aside, we just parted ways. Are we on eachother's Christmas card list now? Nope. But not in any case is he a POS. If he brings that UA Bull &^$^ over at US AIRWAYS and sticks on that other sideline then he can expect me to do my best job at being on the other sideline and doing my best to defend this ramp craft. regards,

 

[pjirish317]

ograc,

Simply put, IMO, our NC had ZERO to do with either the HA agreement, or the UA T/A. The only thing that we have in common is the district regarding contract negotiations. Therefore, I do not work for either, so I do not care one way or the other. Regarding our current negotiations, I feel strongly that our NC will do right by the members, and right now, I have no reason to question OUR NC, and IMO could use our support by not accusing them of bringing something back that resembles UA's T/A. Or hinting that it might happen. We simply do not know. And do you really think that Gil would get upset if you called FO? I call other AGC's all the time if I can't reach my assigned AGC. Heck I even call other grievance chairs for assistance from time to time. If you are not willing to make a simple phone call to get your questions answered first hand, I don't know what else to say really. Like it or not, sooner or later you have to speak with FO personally, one on one, to find out what is happening. I'm sure Gil would understand. And for the record, all the AGC's can represent you, not just your assigned AGC.

 

[pjirish317]

informer,

Any thoughts to my offer?

 

[ograc]

ograc,

Simply put, IMO, our NC had ZERO to do with either the HA agreement, or the UA T/A. The only thing that we have in common is the district regarding contract negotiations. Therefore, I do not work for either, so I do not care one way or the other. Regarding our current negotiations, I feel strongly that our NC will do right by the members, and right now, I have no reason to question OUR NC, and IMO could use our support by not accusing them of bringing something back that resembles UA's T/A. Or hinting that it might happen. We simply do not know. And do you really think that Gil would get upset if you called FO? I call other AGC's all the time if I can't reach my assigned AGC. Heck I even call other grievance chairs for assistance from time to time. If you are not willing to make a simple phone call to get your questions answered first hand, I don't know what else to say really. Like it or not, sooner or later you have to speak with FO personally, one on one, to find out what is happening. I'm sure Gil would understand. And for the record, all the AGC's can represent you, not just your assigned AGC.

I realize our NC had nothing to do with either agreement but in the end they answer to the same District Leadership. The District Leadership oversees and has the final authority over all contract negotiations within their jurisdiction. The NC's signatures are not on the final contract Brother. You've witnessed it first hand with past agreements at US and past District Leadership teams. Gil and I have a very good working relationship. I know Gil would not be upset if I called FO directly. But in the end... FO is the one charged with communicating with his Committee Chairpersons. I already know what is happening (or more importantly not happening) with the grievance I represent through my communication with Gil. Additionally, I know many knowledgable people within the union and make many phone calls when the need arises for guidance. Please don't insinuate I do a "half arrsed" job representing my members by not making a phone call. I've represented my co workers and fellow members in my current station for 14 years. They're quite comfortable with my dedication, involvement and unbiased representation. Gil has communicated with us quite effectively to this point. We, the grievant and I, have suggested to FO that he visit the station, before arbitration, to meet with us and Gil to do the necessary preliminary preperation prior to arbitration. This was suggested to FO after he brought back the company's inadequate settlement offer to the grievant. Are you suggesting any AGC can schedule arbitration hearings? Are you suggesting any AGC can represent you in arbitration?

 

[IAM Informer]

PJ
The UA negotiating committee didnt have the final say RD did why is that so hard for you to comprehend just like when RD agreed with UA 4 years that's right 4 years ago ona new attendance policy and ASSURED the membership THEY would VOTE on it in there TA guess what another lie or how about the"we are going to finish our contract before we go into transition talks again another lie mark my words the same s&it is coming your way.
What I don't understand is Delaney has/is doing the same that Canale did and you were livid and was raising all kinds of hell on. These boards but now you live in the world of denial and don't think it can happen at US well keep clicking your heels but its not going to help
If you can name 3 positive things that delaney has done for the membership in 5 yrs on ANY property then I will consider your request
As far as ograc goes he has forgotten more things about unionism then you will ever learn especially from where you get your talking points
You can think Im Tim all you want I could care less but I am not if he bothers you so much just ignore him from what I read you continually blame Tim for politics but everyone of your tirades starts off with politics. It is really gotten stale PJ if you got nothing better than that go read a book or something

 

[IAM Informer]

I really don't think Tom or anyone else has much to worry about you doing everything you can to bring him down but then again maybe with the help of the 4or5 guys from your local that showed up to try and get you elected to GC can help you revolutionize labor

The facts are what they are the Delaney experiment was/is a total travisty and I think deep down you feel the same but you've been advised by MF NH FO to support at all cost which is truly sad your not the man I thought you were

 

[IAM Informer]

Ograc

Don't waste your time trying to explain your experience to the Parrot he will get in big trouble with his circle of AGCs if he didnt try and bring up politics around every corner thats all those guys know just look at what they have done the last 4 years heck I can't find but 1arbitration they won and maybe PJ can point us in the right direction as to how many arbitration s they have actually done last count I had was 3

 

[700UW]

PJ, they don't have a chance as IAM 141, including the AGC's haven't given them one. The AGCs are all Delaney whores being pimped out by Delaney. That's how it works with guys who are not leaders and can't lead a fly. They hate the membership because they can't trust it. And the one or two that had balls promptly gave them up for a taste of whiskey, whores, and fortune. They are empty, insignificant so which among them do we put our hope in? What happened to BUF is the norm. No fight, no nothing because the prelim work is not done. The company sees that the IAM 141 has no juice with its members and it doesn't have to look far when they both get out of bed. The juice is always within the membership and I personally think our membership is stronger than you and they think, but I realize you have to blame someone since you 'to die for' Frank O. But it doesn't have to be that way. The same RLA that existed in the last century was used as a catalyst of power for working people because it has great strengths in it that are not found in the NLRA. For you and other very ignorant posters like 700 to even hint that the current weak ass predicament of unions in this industry is a direct result of the RLA is laughable. There are constants, and we should be grateful that the RLA is one of them, without it, the airline unions would be destroyed like unions in non RLA industries. The RLA is powerful for unions, simply powerful. You asked about the prelim work and then went on to mention some of it. You did well to mention IAM 141 and IAM 142 working together but your error was in your assumption that they never will. I don't know that PJ and please allow me to have some hope that these two districts will get their collective heads out of their arses and start working together. Start picketing together as much as legally possible. Start standing together with "Moments of solidarity" in the middle of the ramp TOGETHER when flight activity is not affected. Then go from there. Until the leadership of both districts jump out of the company bedroom, don't expect anything. regards,

Ignorant comments?

You are the one who has done more damage to fleet over the years than the IAM, you filed short of cards which led to the bloodbath of 92.

You tried to get the teamsters and they laughed at you, you tried to raid the TWU they laughed at you, you tried to start two different unions and you failed.

You were removed from your grievance chairman at ORD for dual unionism, almost fired from US with the help of JC and JR who convinced the company to let you keep your job when you promoted the slow down on the Big Picture and you were removed from your organizing position from the district.

You cant get elected to the district nor the international.

And if you read any scholarly paper on the RLA you would know its to protect companies and interstate commerce, and was even used to nationalize the railroads by the army under President Truman when the railroad workers went on strike.

Look at every other industry except the railroads and airlines and they can strike as soon as their CBAs expire, CBAs under the RLA dont expire and you have to get permission from the government to strike and then the President can stop you.

You are the one who is truly ignorant.

Most contracts in the railroads are legislated by Congress as the railroads and the unions never reach agreements.

History speaks for itself, go read the book Strike and it will tell you how the RLA came into effect, it was to stop all the wildcat strikes in the railroads as airlines didnt even exist in 1926 when the law was enacted.

And Time, FO and you were buddies, you pushed for him to get elected, so why dont you share the blame for what you say are his failures?

It's always been about timmy and not the membership.

 

[BLUTO]

nielson is n deep doo-doo with all but co
that payz him to post this shieite
he has been try to destroy iam an solidarity
4 many years. nielson thinks im some guy name beehive
what he don’t know is i know him but he don’t know me
his ego wont let him recogniz most people
he thinks he iz smarter n can fool everbodie
I lol at him cuz he is crooked an busted!
700 told truth abut nielson frum years ago!

 

[pjirish317]

I realize our NC had nothing to do with either agreement but in the end they answer to the same District Leadership. The District Leadership oversees and has the final authority over all contract negotiations within their jurisdiction. The NC's signatures are not on the final contract Brother. You've witnessed it first hand with past agreements at US and past District Leadership teams. Gil and I have a very good working relationship. I know Gil would not be upset if I called FO directly. But in the end... FO is the one charged with communicating with his Committee Chairpersons. I already know what is happening (or more importantly not happening) with the grievance I represent through my communication with Gil. Additionally, I know many knowledgable people within the union and make many phone calls when the need arises for guidance. Please don't insinuate I do a "half arrsed" job representing my members by not making a phone call. I've represented my co workers and fellow members in my current station for 14 years. They're quite comfortable with my dedication, involvement and unbiased representation. Gil has communicated with us quite effectively to this point. We, the grievant and I, have suggested to FO that he visit the station, before arbitration, to meet with us and Gil to do the necessary preliminary preperation prior to arbitration. This was suggested to FO after he brought back the company's inadequate settlement offer to the grievant. Are you suggesting any AGC can schedule arbitration hearings? Are you suggesting any AGC can represent you in arbitration?

My apologies for "insinuating" you do a half arrsed job? It was not my intention. I was just saying that you can call FO instead of always going through Gil. And I was saying any AGC can and should help when it is needed, and yes they ALL can represent you in arbitration, but I am not sure if ALL AGC's can schedule the arbitrations.

 

[pjirish317]

I really don't think Tom or anyone else has much to worry about you doing everything you can to bring him down but then again maybe with the help of the 4or5 guys from your local that showed up to try and get you elected to GC can help you revolutionize labor

The facts are what they are the Delaney experiment was/is a total travisty and I think deep down you feel the same but you've been advised by MF NH FO to support at all cost which is truly sad your not the man I thought you were

informer,

Was this post directed at me? If so, I have never met you, so how could I not be the MAN you thought I was? Interesting comment.

 

[ograc]

My apologies for "insinuating" you do a half arrsed job? It was not my intention. I was just saying that you can call FO instead of always going through Gil. And I was saying any AGC can and should help when it is needed, and yes they ALL can represent you in arbitration, but I am not sure if ALL AGC's can schedule the arbitrations.

Pj,
As stated earlier... Gil was assigned my station as acting AGC by the district to assist FO with his workload. I respect the assignment. With that assignment from the district... all correspondence and representational issues that arise in my station are to go through Gil. Based on the assignment by the district, I have, and intend to continue, to follow the prescribed protocol in the future. The district's intent on this assignment was to lighten the workload for FO. I will continue to respect that decision. Gil has done a very good job representing and visiting the station. The scheduling of arbitration in this case, however, is FO's responsibility. The lack of progress toward a timely resolution is frustrating to myself and the grievant I represent. How am I to justify, the untimely delay for arbitration and subsequent decision, to the grievant and the other members in the station? 2 + years awaiting a scheduled arbitration date? A grievance that is now over 3 years old? Tough sell to the grievant and the other members in the station with a potential card signing campaign and representation election around the corner. I hope you can understand and appreciate the awkward position this level of representation puts us in.