Feb / Mar 2013 IAM Fleet Service Discussions

[mike33]

What you interpret as disillusion, is in fact, a simple question put forth regarding the quality of representation by the IAM District 141 Leadership. The question put forth is not about "my ticket" or anyone else's. The question put forth is about past and current District 141 leadership's responsibility to the membership. A union has a fiduciary DUTY TO FAIRLY REPRESENT. The leadership team you defend, may in fact, be protected by the veil of interpretation and the inability to "prove" the Failure to Duly Represent but this does'nt change the truth. To you and others the question, I'm sure, is threatning... but it is not "absurd" as you put it. Are you advocating the membership blindly follows the district's lead? Are you advocating a sit down, shut up and do as I say style of representation? Are you advocating a policy and belief that if anyone questions the accountability of our elected union representatives their questions and ideas should be considered as "absurd" and politically motivated? This has nothing to do with politics, past elections or personal agendas. This is about accountability to the members who pay dues. Accountability to the members who elected the officers to Duly Represent their best interests. You may call it "disillusion" or "absurd" to ask such a question if you so choose but it doesn't change the truth.

Simply Post/ copy paste/ howerver you want to....... Fact as to what has come of the negotiations between the US IAM negotiating team and the company. Show me in print ! The print that will change my unbiased way of thinking.......

Fact is you can't and i know that!.....but you are so factually sure of yourself , but you dont have it on paper yet do you?

Well i dont have my instincts on paper yet either! PERIOD!.......

It is about your losing ticket. Nobody likes to lose not even me, but we will see. Because i voted this ticket and untill they show me that they couldnt produce for USAIRWAYS Fleet members to my liking, i will stick with my instincts.

As far as I'm concerned, you lack solidarity with your questions at this time. Pertinent questions during elections but totally misrepresented during negotiations.

 

[robbedagain]

leadership of the past saw 2 ch 11 of us... the outsourcing of over 30 cities... thousands upon thousands of employees tossed to the curb 2 cities added to class one to get the deal thru... just to name a few

current leadership... well the ua t/a is something to look at but not a good one... at us... negogiations leading to nowhere... as it currently is but ive heard that the sick has improved...not sure how or if it occurred but ive heard that... meanwhile the company goes behind our backs to make backroom door buster deals with aa and their union instead of focusing in on getting deals with their own would it be possible if dl141 can get nmb to help negogiate now that dl142 has formally asked to be released

 

[necigrad]

Necigrad,

The NLRB has nothing to do with the RLA and unionized airline employees, that would be the NMB.

The last time more than one group went on strike which was permitted by the NMB was at EA.

Hasnt happened since and it wont, look at the history.

My bad on the agency, govermental alphabet soup and I don't go well together.

Pretty certain you're wrong on EA being the last. Didn't NW MX strike about 7-8 years ago? And that's just off the top of my head. I don't live to follow this stuff, so there may be more.

 

[700UW]

I said the last time MORE THAN ONE GROUP was allowed on strike was EA, so how am I wrong if only the mechanic and related went on strike at NW?

Mechanic and related at NW is one group. No one else at NW went on strike or was allowed to strike, the FAs tried and were not allowed.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,

What “prelim” work should have been done? How much “teamwork” and “solidarity” does it take for the company that YOU and I work for to show Fleet some respect? And truth is Tim, even IF you were PDGC of DL141, which you aren’t btw, the members assured us of that, thank goodness for small miracles, there would be absolutely nothing you could do about the company’s tactics, and treatment of the NC, and Fleet Service as a whole. And you can preach to the “masses” about DL 141 and DL 142 working together against the company, but you and I both know, although you will not admit it, that DL 142 wants nothing to do with Fleet. Remember 141M? We were and always will be a pawn to DL142. IMHO anyway. And as far as our CBA that is currently being negotiated, well by our NC anyway, the company went AWOL on this round of negotiations, I for one will give those on the committee the respect that they deserve, and will reserve judgement until we have something to read in its entirety, not just the bullet points, and to vote on. IMO they deserve our support, and, that we reserve our judgement until that all happens. Cripes people lets give them a chance already.

PJ, they don't have a chance as IAM 141, including the AGC's haven't given them one. The AGCs are all Delaney whores being pimped out by Delaney. That's how it works with guys who are not leaders and can't lead a fly. They hate the membership because they can't trust it. And the one or two that had balls promptly gave them up for a taste of whiskey, whores, and fortune. They are empty, insignificant so which among them do we put our hope in? What happened to BUF is the norm. No fight, no nothing because the prelim work is not done. The company sees that the IAM 141 has no juice with its members and it doesn't have to look far when they both get out of bed. The juice is always within the membership and I personally think our membership is stronger than you and they think, but I realize you have to blame someone since you 'to die for' Frank O. But it doesn't have to be that way. The same RLA that existed in the last century was used as a catalyst of power for working people because it has great strengths in it that are not found in the NLRA. For you and other very ignorant posters like 700 to even hint that the current weak ass predicament of unions in this industry is a direct result of the RLA is laughable. There are constants, and we should be grateful that the RLA is one of them, without it, the airline unions would be destroyed like unions in non RLA industries. The RLA is powerful for unions, simply powerful. You asked about the prelim work and then went on to mention some of it. You did well to mention IAM 141 and IAM 142 working together but your error was in your assumption that they never will. I don't know that PJ and please allow me to have some hope that these two districts will get their collective heads out of their arses and start working together. Start picketing together as much as legally possible. Start standing together with "Moments of solidarity" in the middle of the ramp TOGETHER when flight activity is not affected. Then go from there. Until the leadership of both districts jump out of the company bedroom, don't expect anything. regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

leadership of the past saw 2 ch 11 of us... the outsourcing of over 30 cities... thousands upon thousands of employees tossed to the curb 2 cities added to class one to get the deal thru... just to name a few

current leadership... well the ua t/a is something to look at but not a good one... at us... negogiations leading to nowhere... as it currently is but ive heard that the sick has improved...not sure how or if it occurred but ive heard that... meanwhile the company goes behind our backs to make backroom door buster deals with aa and their union instead of focusing in on getting deals with their own would it be possible if dl141 can get nmb to help negogiate now that dl142 has formally asked to be released

The outsourcing of over 60 stations. You had 82 stations in the back of the 1999 agreement. And the IAM loved class two stations so much that they just blew management over at United with language that is even worse. They call them "Tier Two" now which have NO SCOPE AT ALL the first day if the UA contract comes in, but have 3 years of grandfather rights similar to the RJ8 protective language in the NW agreement pre bankruptcy. Then there is a "Tier 3" which are about 60 stations that have nothing but "Tuffa Lucka" roadside assistance. CLT, PHL, just to name two of them. The IAM even brought back the 'red herring' conditional no-layoff clause. In fact, it's the same 1999 that exist in the US AIRWAYS fleet contract still. Funny how the US AIRWAYS fleet contract 'guarantees' full time jobs, even today, if you have 1999 seniority but such guarantees resulted in over half of the 1999 membership to lose their jobs and 75% of all stations close. Gotta have scope because without scope you really have nothing. This 141 rising group has completely destroyed things at Hawaiian and now are attempting to at United. These guys are absolute idiots. Morons if you will. Not saying they don't have IQ's but Delaney is very powerful and preys over those who rent out their minds and call him boss. regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

I said the last time MORE THAN ONE GROUP was allowed on strike was EA, so how am I wrong if only the mechanic and related went on strike at NW?

Mechanic and related at NW is one group. No one else at NW went on strike or was allowed to strike, the FAs tried and were not allowed.

The reason why it might not happen again is because of the unions, not because of the NMB. Take for instance, IAM141. Delaney separated the groups of Stores and Ramp now because ever since eastern, management has pushed the unions to separate and divide the work groups. Unfortunately, the unions, particularly the IAM have listened. So much so, that there really won't be much difference for rampers if another union represented MX. regards

 

[pjirish317]

Ograc,
What I don’t get from you, you are on here preaching “AGC” and “District” accountability should be first and foremost. Was that not the political “platform”, that the LfP ticket preached during the recent election? Where were you prior to that election, and how come your voice was not heard before you decided to run for office? At least on here anyway. It just makes me suspect to your true motives to your questions. But I will try to answer your questions as I see it. 1. I would say that yes they have. If you feel that they haven’t you can bring a DFR suit against them, although I do not know how much support you would get, let alone assistance with the $$$$ of it. It aint cheap I hear. 2. While I can’t speak for anybody but myself here, I would say no to this question. I know most of the current AGC’s. And not one has ever not been there when I had a question or needed advice on a situation. And that is 24/7. So the way I see it, you either genuinely want to make this union better for the whole, or you are setting up for another run at office in 2014…..IMO maybe a little of both.


Tim/informer,

If you weren’t so bitter towards DL141 as a whole, you might gain some credibility, sadly, it is apparent, both from your failed attempt at a run for PDGC, and through your postings, that it is all about YOU, and not the membership just to prove a point. Face it, you didn’t get you way, and you are still having a hissy-fit over it, and will continue to have your hissy-fit until 1. You succeed in overthrowing the current DL141 leadership, 2. Are successful in raiding the IAM through another union (IBT) perhaps, which accomplishes number 1 also, or 3. You take all your energy and actually help bring the membership together instead of trying to divide it for a personal vendetta. Either way, I have ZERO use for you, you have proved to not only be a sh&^ty person, and a horrible friend, you would use anybody/thing for political/personal gain. Not a great or effective leader in my book.

BTW, have any more of those gift cards left that you were handing out in ATL while you were organizing AT?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Ograc,
What I don’t get from you, you are on here preaching “AGC” and “District” accountability should be first and foremost. Was that not the political “platform”, that the LfP ticket preached during the recent election? Where were you prior to that election, and how come your voice was not heard before you decided to run for office? At least on here anyway. It just makes me suspect to your true motives to your questions. But I will try to answer your questions as I see it. 1. I would say that yes they have. If you feel that they haven’t you can bring a DFR suit against them, although I do not know how much support you would get, let alone assistance with the $$$$ of it. It aint cheap I hear. 2. While I can’t speak for anybody but myself here, I would say no to this question. I know most of the current AGC’s. And not one has ever not been there when I had a question or needed advice on a situation. And that is 24/7. So the way I see it, you either genuinely want to make this union better for the whole, or you are setting up for another run at office in 2014…..IMO maybe a little of both.


Tim/informer,

If you weren’t so bitter towards DL141 as a whole, you might gain some credibility, sadly, it is apparent, both from your failed attempt at a run for PDGC, and through your postings, that it is all about YOU, and not the membership just to prove a point. Face it, you didn’t get you way, and you are still having a hissy-fit over it, and will continue to have your hissy-fit until 1. You succeed in overthrowing the current DL141 leadership, 2. Are successful in raiding the IAM through another union (IBT) perhaps, which accomplishes number 1 also, or 3. You take all your energy and actually help bring the membership together instead of trying to divide it for a personal vendetta. Either way, I have ZERO use for you, you have proved to not only be a sh&^ty person, and a horrible friend, you would use anybody/thing for political/personal gain. Not a great or effective leader in my book.

BTW, have any more of those gift cards left that you were handing out in ATL while you were organizing AT?

Well, then stop asking me questions then PJ. If it was all about me then I would be pissing all over you like NH and FO is right now and would have continued making big money. But I chose to put the membership first and rise up against Delaney after it was brought to my attention how he was going to abolish United talks and enter into transition talks. It was all about me in the sense where I couldn't betray my integrity and dignity by pissing on those who paid my check. One thing is for sure, my accomplishments while you were paying me are unmatched as I was the best and changed the s&%$ way in how the IAM organized. At any rate, although I was hopeful that 141 rising would surprise me and prove me wrong, such wasn't the case at all. So they are now all done as their betrayal of the membership, including me also, will give them their reward. BTW, nobody lost the least elections. My team suspended our campaign the day before CLT and put together a 24 page case that pursued federal court. The investigation concluded in November and a determination to overthrow the election has not presently been made. If there is a rerun then we should be excited that we can dump all of them in one grab. Time will tell. Oh, and btw, I am not IAM informer but I do believe I know who he is. Could I be Bluto? You guys are silly but your support of NH and FO is quite foolish indeed given how the tsunami wave of 141 rising has destroyed Hawaiian and now trying to destroy United. But you think they will treat you different? Ha! And building solidarity is what I do. The leadership attempts to divide and destroy. Why do you think 141 rising just separated stores from ramp? Further division. Why do you think your boy Atkinson sent a dopey flyer with the ballots of ONLY sUA members dogging sCO members? Canale was absolutely terrible with the class two, seniority cleansing, etc., but 141 risings contract at United is worse. PJ, isn't the new TA at United the work of 141 rising, that is the same group that you continue to support? www.rampworker.com regards,

 

[Tim Nelson]

Ograc,
What I don’t get from you, you are on here preaching “AGC” and “District” accountability should be first and foremost. Was that not the political “platform”, that the LfP ticket preached during the recent election? Where were you prior to that election, and how come your voice was not heard before you decided to run for office? At least on here anyway. It just makes me suspect to your true motives to your questions. But I will try to answer your questions as I see it. 1. I would say that yes they have. If you feel that they haven’t you can bring a DFR suit against them, although I do not know how much support you would get, let alone assistance with the $$$$ of it. It aint cheap I hear. 2. While I can’t speak for anybody but myself here, I would say no to this question. I know most of the current AGC’s. And not one has ever not been there when I had a question or needed advice on a situation. And that is 24/7. So the way I see it, you either genuinely want to make this union better for the whole, or you are setting up for another run at office in 2014…..IMO maybe a little of both.


Tim/informer,

If you weren’t so bitter towards DL141 as a whole, you might gain some credibility, sadly, it is apparent, both from your failed attempt at a run for PDGC, and through your postings, that it is all about YOU, and not the membership just to prove a point. Face it, you didn’t get you way, and you are still having a hissy-fit over it, and will continue to have your hissy-fit until 1. You succeed in overthrowing the current DL141 leadership, 2. Are successful in raiding the IAM through another union (IBT) perhaps, which accomplishes number 1 also, or 3. You take all your energy and actually help bring the membership together instead of trying to divide it for a personal vendetta. Either way, I have ZERO use for you, you have proved to not only be a sh&^ty person, and a horrible friend, you would use anybody/thing for political/personal gain. Not a great or effective leader in my book.

BTW, have any more of those gift cards left that you were handing out in ATL while you were organizing AT?

And BTW PJ, I don't ask for you to trust me or anyone to trust me. Your union trust should ONLY be in the membership. I've never asked anyone to trust me. And I don't give a rats ass about credibility. I say what I say and it either resonates or it don't with someone. Am I arrogant? Yes, and plenty of it! But I love my life and I love myself and covet no job and I don't serve money. regards,

 

[pjirish317]

And BTW PJ, I don't ask for you to trust me or anyone to trust me. Your union trust should ONLY be in the membership. I've never asked anyone to trust me. And I don't give a rats ass about credibility. I say what I say and it either resonates or it don't with someone. Am I arrogant? Yes, and plenty of it! But I love my life and I love myself and covet no job and I don't serve money. regards,

Tim,
You are most certainly asking the membership to trust in you. How could you not be? Seriously?


As long as it's your way, right tim? If it's not your way it's wrong, that much is apparent in ALL of your posts. And loving yourself is VERY EVIDENT, so much so that I think you lose sight of the bigger picture.

BTW, you didn't answer whether or not you had any left over gift cards from the ATL AT campaign.

And ograc,

What would you do different to change the way grievances were resolved if you were in office. How would you make the company speed the process up? BTW have you even spoken to FO about the grievance, or have you just spoke with the grievant anout the situation? there are always 2 sides to the story, and for all appearances sake you are only listening to one side.

 

[pjirish317]

As a side note I would like to take a small bit of bandwidth to say R.I.P. Mickey Hughes, you are sorely missed. So sad that all the personal BS gets in the way of rememberance of a true union man.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
You are most certainly asking the membership to trust in you. How could you not be? Seriously?


As long as it's your way, right tim? If it's not your way it's wrong, that much is apparent in ALL of your posts. And loving yourself is VERY EVIDENT, so much so that I think you lose sight of the bigger picture.

BTW, you didn't answer whether or not you had any left over gift cards from the ATL AT campaign.

And ograc,

What would you do different to change the way grievances were resolved if you were in office. How would you make the company speed the process up? BTW have you even spoken to FO about the grievance, or have you just spoke with the grievant anout the situation? there are always 2 sides to the story, and for all appearances sake you are only listening to one side.

PJ, Delaney paid for all of the gift cards. NH swallows everything he is told and has no clue on what is legal or not. Asking folks to organize and take time away from their familes to travel should be compensated in organizing. We were able to do so by taking our members off of the job, but we had no agreements with management at AirTran, so we thanked and appreciated the AirTran folks with gift cards, approved for and paid by the leadership. Gift cards only became an issue when Roach wanted to pull the plug on the AirTran campaign and I informed him that if he betrayed the AirTran people then I would use my leverage against the IAM. He knew what that meant and backed down. But the funding for the AirTran campaign was altered as Roach informed Delaney and Atkinson to cut the funds so that the campaign would die. When I became aware of it, I informed the eboard of the outstanding receipts and I communicated with them insomuch where things were compensated. NH supported it. PJ, you don't know squat but you allow yourself to be BS and become the mouthpiece of NH who doesn't have the balls to post on here all of his crap even though he is Delaney's tool. regards,

 

[pjirish317]

Tim,

Just FYI, I am nobody's mouthpiece. Like you, I tell the facts as I see them. You say I don't know squat, maybe so, maybe not. It looks like I hit a nerve though. And NH can most certainly speak for himself, of that I am sure. You are just a whiney POS that when you don't get your way you a temper tantrum to anybody that will listen. God help us if you are ever in a postioin of authority when it comes to FS at US. We would be doomed, cause you would screw over anybody that disagrees with you, and burn down the house just to prove a point.

 

[IAM Informer]

here we goi again nielson as the iam ifomer!
nielson u r a pos and a compiny plant!
u r out to destroy iam and solidarity!
u r a nobody u will never b elected!

LOL Lehive go back to kickin people off your koolaid drinking FB page or better yet go take some pictures of the membership at UA holding up signs saying they r voting yes