F/A Attrition ONLY

[AC AA LA FA]

Most of them no service flights, how hard can it be?

how hard can it be..?
your joking ...right..?

look at the duty days and layover time..and this is not the worst offender..
DFW/ORD/SLT have hundreds of these narrow body dogs month in and month out...
there are services on each leg..at least a beverage service mostly BOB with that horrid OSR..

Ive flown both INTL and DOM and DOM (post restructuring) is like a life time of the worst Caribbean flying at BEST....

fall off and give it a try Mikey....?

 

[nbmcg01]

how hard can it be..?
your joking ...right..?

look at the duty days and layover time..and this is not the worst offender..
DFW/ORD/SLT have hundreds of these narrow body dogs month in and month out...
there are services on each leg..at least a beverage service mostly BOB with that horrid OSR..

Ive flown both INTL and DOM and DOM (post restructuring) is like a life time of the worst Caribbean flying at BEST....

fall off and give it a try Mikey....?

I always thought that "meeting and greeting" and saying "good-bye" was like another leg. I never liked flying more than 2 legs a day for that very reason. I think restricting legs is as important as layover rest for contractual purposes.

 

[FA Mikey]

. Most of us don't have the luxury of being MIA f/as who can just announce to the world that they are not going to do a service for "safety" reasons and get away with it.

I dont set the service the company does.

 

[jimntx]

I dont set the service the company does.

Yes, Mike. I am aware of that. But, in the spirit that I started this thread and asked that people keep it on the topic of FA Attrition, I won't respond in public. I'll send you a PM.

Jim

 

[Cajun Flyer]

I'm starting a new thread about attrition. Can we please stick to the topic of how many f/as are leaving and how it does or does not affect each of us? We have beat the dead horse of who did what to whom in the past long enough. Let's try to look to the future. Now, that being said...

Once again, if you have different numbers from these, take it up with Flight Service Management and the Flight Service Webmaster. They are now posting a total attrition for the year only. I am subtracting the yearly total posted last month from the current posted totals to determine the previous month's attrition.

Currently posted attrition for 2008

Domestic: 115
International: 73
Total: 188
Of the 188, 99 are retirees.

Attrition for 2008 posted LAST month
Domestic: 69
International: 48
Total: 117
Of the 117, 61 are retirees.

Thus, through the wonders of basic arithmetic, we have the March attrition numbers...
Domestic: 46
International: 25
Total: 71
Of the 71, 38 were retirees.

These are all "active" f/as as far as I know. The retirement count here does not include retirements from furlough. There is no way to tell for sure because the retirement roster of the Flight Service website includes only those f/as who want their retirement info to be posted.

Some observations:
1. This is the first year since I started flying that the percentage of retirements is over 50% of the total attrition. 99 retirees this year represents 52.65% of total attrition.
2. The current monthly average attrition is 62.67. If the average stays in this range, we are on track to lose 750+ f/as this year. (My personal opinion is that the attrition rate is going to increase as the year progresses.)

Just wondering how many flight attendants American has in total and if y'all have done any hiring in the last year? I'm a Delta F/A and I think we've got 13,500 that are active and about seven or eight hundred that are still out either through a leave or furlough. We've hired this year with classes going through mid June I believe. Probablt at least 1/4 of those new hires are language qualified due to the expansion of international flying but the hiring of new hires for the first time since 2001 is a welcome relief to those of us hired from 1999 to 2001 who have been sitting at the bottom of the seniority list for 7 years now. We've currently got a package offering for those with 10 years of company service or more to retire or leave with the deal. I'm hoping we can get a bunch to take it. They've said if we get enough taking the early out, then we could be hiring again.

We are all worried about NWA F/A's and merging seniority. They don't have a lot of great flying and would likely to transfer into Atlanta and NYC to try and take our best flying. It'll get way ugly if that happens. We currently have a union vote coming up and if we vote to join their same union we'll have to merge straight date of hire which would benefit NWA and not us.

I was surprised to see so many retirements and people leaving at American. If only we could get that many people to go at Delta!!!

 

[IORFA]

I'd say right around 18,000 total active F/A's, with just under 1,200 on furlough. No new hiring since 2001. You want to talk about stagnant? Come talk to our low seniority folks. Remember, before 2001, we got into the 22,000 numbers for F/A's, and that was before we bought TWA. I would say that there will be a steady stream leaving from here on out. Nothing large, just consistant. People are way past this place and ready to leave. Some have been ready for a long time, problem was that they are just getting to the point that everything in their life is now starting to be lined up for the next chapter. People saw the writing on the wall awhile ago. The decline most have seen is too much for some.

 

[jimntx]

I'd say right around 18,000 total active F/A's, with just under 1,200 on furlough. No new hiring since 2001. You want to talk about stagnant? Come talk to our low seniority folks. Remember, before 2001, we got into the 22,000 numbers for F/A's, and that was before we bought TWA. I would say that there will be a steady stream leaving from here on out. Nothing large, just consistant. People are way past this place and ready to leave. Some have been ready for a long time, problem was that they are just getting to the point that everything in their life is now starting to be lined up for the next chapter. People saw the writing on the wall awhile ago. The decline most have seen is too much for some.

20,000 "active" is about right. Stagnant? You betcha. I've been trying since 2004 to get transferred back to DFW. I'm not going to live long enough for my number to come up on the transfer list.

Actually, when I started in Sep. 2000, my seniority number was over 23,000, and they continued to hire right up until 9/11. I think at 9/11, we had about 28,000 "active" f/as counting the former TW f/as.

Note to the DL f/a who was asking...actually total attrition including retirements is down slightly this year. We normally lose about 900/yr of which about 30-40% are retirements. Right now we are on track to lose 750-800 this year. The number of retirements as a %-age of total attrition is above 50% for the 1st time in my vast career of 6 years, but the actual number of retirements ytd is down slightly.

 

[Flyboy4u]

I was surprised to see so many retirements and people leaving at American. If only we could get that many people to go at Delta!!!

Retirements at American? Not going to happen in my lifetime. These ladys/men have no plans to go anywhere. Sad, but true...This is alot of the problem right now at AA. Not to mention, the company will never offer an early out. They would rather see us fight each other, and laugh with their bonus checks all the way to the bank! The sad thing is, I feel for those who are way past their retirement here at AA. They still believe that their pension will get them through those later years in life...What they don't seem to understand is once this company files bankruptcy? Those pensions will no longer be there...I just hope someone is thier for them when it happens...I however can't stand ignorance. I wish them the best, but enough is enough.

 

[FWAAA]

Retirements at American? Not going to happen in my lifetime. These ladys/men have no plans to go anywhere. Sad, but true...This is alot of the problem right now at AA. Not to mention, the company will never offer an early out. They would rather see us fight each other, and laugh with their bonus checks all the way to the bank! The sad thing is, I feel for those who are way past their retirement here at AA. They still believe that their pension will get them through those later years in life...What they don't seem to understand is once this company files bankruptcy? Those pensions will no longer be there...I just hope someone is thier for them when it happens...I however can't stand ignorance. I wish them the best, but enough is enough.

Irony Alert!

You can't stand ignorance? Let's try some facts to counter your demonstrably false posting.

Just a note - AA's funded its pensions to 96% as of 12/31/08, so even if they were terminated in Ch 11 (which is very unlikely), the benefits would still be paid from those assets.

Another thing: FA pensions will very likely be less than the PBGC guarantee, so even if the pensions were terminated and if insufficient assets existed, the PBGC would still pay the FAs their pension. FA pensions aren't quite as large as pilots' pensions.

As to FA retirement, large numbers of FAs will soon retire if they want to maximize their pension payments, since their best four years in the last ten have to be 1999-2002, right? Pay was whacked midway thru 2003.

 

[IORFA]

The best 4 of 10 is kind of misleading in that, yes they will lose money if they didn't work. If they did work, then the additional years of service more than likely will cover the difference and then a little more. So IF they accrued years of service the last few years, then their pensions will still, more than likely, be higher or the same if they stay another year or four.

 

[nbmcg01]

The best 4 of 10 is kind of misleading in that, yes they will lose money if they didn't work. If they did work, then the additional years of service more than likely will cover the difference and then a little more. So IF they accrued years of service the last few years, then their pensions will still, more than likely, be higher or the same if they stay another year or four.

But their income is significantly higher flying. Even if they only fly 35 hours a month, (Intn), their pay will be worth not retiring. Also, there is a perception that "older" people should "go quietly into that good night". You will find that the more numbers you acquire the younger that age becomes. I will be 60 this summer and can work circles around most people 20 to 40 years younger. Had I not lost my seniority (or at least had a portion of it) I would still be flying. As hard as it is these days, it is better than most other jobs. I'm lucky in the respect that I love my current job. Not quite as much pay but the rewards offset...

 

[Skymess]

But their income i s significantly higher flying. Even if they only fly 35 hours a month, (Intn), their pay will be worth not retiring. Also, there is a perception that "older" people should "go quietly into that good night". You will find that the more numbers you acquire the younger that age becomes. I will be 60 this summer and can work circles around most people 20 to 40 years younger. Had I not lost my seniority (or at least had a portion of it) I would still be flying. As hard as it is these days, it is better than most other jobs. I'm lucky in the respect that I love my current job. Not quite as much pay but the rewards offset...

Absolutely agree with you, Nancy. Why retire if you can make more working, you fly to places you enjoy going to, and you aren't ready to retire?

The age factor is a bit misleading too. Why retire because you reach a certain age? There are some flight attendants who are in their 70's who definitely seem to be losing their mobility and/or their minds. Then we have those in their 70's who still work just as hard as the day they were hired.

Like one of the other posters, I also am not holding my breath for anyone to retire. One of the things I was most shocked about when I transferred to IDF and IOR was that the supposedly super senior FA's flying 30-40 years are only in their early 50's to early 60's. That's not old. Junior people are doomed if they are expecting anyone to retire en masse.

If someone buys us even those flying 20 years could bite the dust if there is too much overlap with the merged carrier.

My personal belief with the best in 10 bringing a mass exodus in 2009 is that is another rumor that we will see come and go like Y2K and the mass retirement after the 777 understaffing was awarded. Fantasy island.

 

[IORFA]

There is another mention to that dang 777 award. I never understood why anyone would have thought that people would retire after that measly amount of money. More importantly, that money went to mostly JUNIOR people. People forget that the 777 award was for the Atlantic version (Europe). Most senior people had the majority of their 777 flights on the Pacific version (Asia). Which means that mostly junior people got the larger amounts with some very minor exceptions. Some LAX-I, IDF and RDU F/A's. Either way I bet you can't even attribute 25 retirements to the 777 award. By the way, for those who never realised it, the 777 award was reduced to pay for the 3 months of underfly that we re-voted on in 2003.

 

[eolesen]

BTW, if you use a fixed pitch font, the numbers will all line up right. I recommend Courier New.

Better to wrap the text in a Codebox ([ code ] & [ /code ] )from the quick access menu. Using the fixed pitch font doesn't address space compression (i.e. multiple spaces between words/figures get converted to a single space). Codebox preserves the spacing.

 

[kirkpatrick]

There is another mention to that dang 777 award. I never understood why anyone would have thought that people would retire after that measly amount of money.

There was a slight spike in attrition in Nov right after the award, but only about 25 more than the average monthly attrition for that year. I agree with those who don't buy the mass exodus theory. It ain't gonna happen. Growth is the only thing that will end seniority stagnation.

MK