Democracy In Action

[Overspeed]

Your one f***ed up individual.

Irrelevant from the position that he does not have a vote. Retirees are important, that's why the TWU made sure we didn't go to BK and shaft our retirees like "full pay to the last day" union members at UA, NW, America West, US, and others. Pompous ass? Nice. So and your other "relevant" friends would rather have shafted people like MCI transplant? Nice. At least I am a pompous ass and not an IGM'er like you guys.

 

[Overspeed]

Irrelevant? International scum calling others irrelevant?

#### you with a chainsaw.

Nobody, even those who are retired, are irrelevant, you pompous ass. Just because somebody is no longer contributing monthly dues to support a lifestyle you and others like you DO NOT DESERVE does not make them irrelevant.

Once again. I am not in the Int'l. I am a member.

You are so articulate. You make a great addition to the professional cause of all AMTs. Thank you for being a standard bearer for all of us...

 

[Overspeed]

<_< ------ Oh I wouldn't worry my pretty little head over me Overspeed! This board is nothing more than an "amusement" for an old man.------- You'd put your time to better use by trying to figure out how you'll get to retirement! That's if there will be one there once your old enough to take advantage of it!!! But at the rate the TWU is giving things away, there won't!!!--------- If your lying to me, and are in fact a member of the International, you don't have to worry about that, now do you!?-------- Unlike the people you're paid to represent, your retirement will always be there!!!---- But the difference will be that they earned it!!!-------You wouldn't lie to an old man, now would you??? Besides,------ I'm "irrelevant" anyway, right???

Seriously, all BS aside. When people like some of these other posters that back Bob, JR, Ken M, and the AMP team doesn't it bother you to side with people that wanted all of the TWA people laid off? I have heard from others that got laid off from the West Coast say they were told by the local reps to institute a job action and not to worry that the TWA guys would get laid off.

Maybe "irrelevant" was a harsh word in response to you. The point being, these people will step on or over anyone to get what they want. IGM'ers through and through. All of them. Willing to risk others retirement in BK court or through an ill advised strike. They even are willing to risk other people's jobs and that is disgraceful.

And no, I am not a member of the Int'l but I am long term TWU'er.

 

[Buck]

Seriously, all BS aside. When people like some of these other posters that back Bob, JR, Ken M, and the AMP team doesn't it bother you to side with people that wanted all of the TWA people laid off? I have heard from others that got laid off from the West Coast say they were told by the local reps to institute a job action and not to worry that the TWA guys would get laid off.

Maybe "irrelevant" was a harsh word in response to you. The point being, these people will step on or over anyone to get what they want. IGM'ers through and through. All of them. Willing to risk others retirement in BK court or through an ill advised strike. They even are willing to risk other people's jobs and that is disgraceful.

And no, I am not a member of the Int'l but I am long term TWU'er.

Is that sorta like the "B-Scale", C-Scale, SRP's, and OSM's"?
All negotiated by the TWU....

 

[Overspeed]

Is that sorta like the "B-Scale", C-Scale, SRP's, and OSM's"?
All negotiated by the TWU....

Wrong

B Scale was around before. APA brought it in with the help AMFA lawyer M. Seham before the TWU and not under the threat of BK.

American Airlines adopted the benchmark B-scale in November 1983, permanently reducing pay for newly hired pilots by 50 percent. In fact, under the AA system—negotiated while the Seham firm sat on the labor side of the table—pay rates and pensions for new employees would never merge with those of then-current employees.

Martin Seham wrote proudly of this accomplishment in Cleared for Takeoff: Airline Labor Relations Since Deregulation.

As general counsel to the Allied Pilots Association (APA), the independent certified representative of the American Airlines pilots, I was close to the negotiations that resulted, in 1983, in one of the earliest realization of the two-tier system. APA was not faced with an insolvent or failing carrier; it was, however, forced to deal with an economic environment that had changed dramatically because of the effects of deregulation and was, by virtue of its independence, mandated to reach an agreement consistent with the needs and objectives of its constituency.

—Martin C. Seham

C-Scale? Explain?

SRPs and OSMs, many airlines have had apprentice mechanics and helpers for many years. In fact many airlines didn't even require an A&P until less than 20 years ago. AA had unlicensed AMTs until only recently. Were they substandard workers? No. In fact since we operate under 121 we really don't need A&Ps at all per the FARs.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------ Listen Overspeed!-------- I think your days of putting out B.S. on this board are pretty much over! Too many people here are on to you!------ As for looking out for my best interests in 2003, that's laughable! Aren't you forgetting that I'm ex-TWA! You know------the ones you (TWU) love to hate!!?--------- Aren't you the ones that went out of their way to make sure we didn't get system protection like everyone else? -----As for getting my retirement out of bankruptcy, been there, done that! Twice!----- And guess what? I'm still drawing my TWA retirement! Have been all along!!!

 

[Overspeed]

<_< ------ Listen Overspeed!-------- I think your days of putting out B.S. on this board are pretty much over! Too many people here are on to you!------ As for looking out for my best interests in 2003, that's laughable! Aren't you forgetting that I'm ex-TWA! You know------the ones you (TWU) love to hate!!?--------- Aren't you the ones that went out of their way to make sure we didn't get system protection like everyone else? -----As for getting my retirement out of bankruptcy, been there, done that! Twice!----- And guess what? I'm still drawing my TWA retirement! Have been all along!!!

Then happy trails...

The PBGC took great care of you with 100% of your pension. That's great!

I never said the 2003 agreement was looking out for you, the retiree's, best interests. Wow! You guys really tangent easily. It was a total package of concessions and everyone has the answer on how they would have done things differently.

 

[MCI transplant]

Then happy trails...

The PBGC took great care of you with 100% of your pension. That's great!

<_<------ Hey! The money spends just as easily as if it came directly from TWA!!!

 

[Duke787]

Wrong

B Scale was around before. APA brought it in with the help AMFA lawyer M. Seham before the TWU and not under the threat of BK.

American Airlines adopted the benchmark B-scale in November 1983, permanently reducing pay for newly hired pilots by 50 percent. In fact, under the AA system—negotiated while the Seham firm sat on the labor side of the table—pay rates and pensions for new employees would never merge with those of then-current employees.

Martin Seham wrote proudly of this accomplishment in Cleared for Takeoff: Airline Labor Relations Since Deregulation.

As general counsel to the Allied Pilots Association (APA), the independent certified representative of the American Airlines pilots, I was close to the negotiations that resulted, in 1983, in one of the earliest realization of the two-tier system. APA was not faced with an insolvent or failing carrier; it was, however, forced to deal with an economic environment that had changed dramatically because of the effects of deregulation and was, by virtue of its independence, mandated to reach an agreement consistent with the needs and objectives of its constituency.

—Martin C. Seham

C-Scale? Explain?

SRPs and OSMs, many airlines have had apprentice mechanics and helpers for many years. In fact many airlines didn't even require an A&P until less than 20 years ago. AA had unlicensed AMTs until only recently. Were they substandard workers? No. In fact since we operate under 121 we really don't need A&Ps at all per the FARs.

How dare you write a post with facts and quotes from the real people, instead of just writing the popular dogma of half the posters on this forum.

The fact is, the TWU saved more jobs at AA, then the other unions did at the other airlines.

I'm sick of listening to and reading posts from mechs complaining about how the TWU stole from them. Nobody said you couldn't go work at another company. We have had six guys that I know about from ORD that have left AA to go work at SWA, FEDEX, corporate, and another career field. Stop complaining and just move on already. and I'm sure where ever you go, you will make twice the money and have a completely satisfying union experience.

 

[Duke787]

<_< ------ Listen Overspeed!-------- I think your days of putting out B.S. on this board are pretty much over! Too many people here are on to you!------ As for looking out for my best interests in 2003, that's laughable! Aren't you forgetting that I'm ex-TWA! You know------the ones you (TWU) love to hate!!?--------- Aren't you the ones that went out of their way to make sure we didn't get system protection like everyone else? -----As for getting my retirement out of bankruptcy, been there, done that! Twice!----- And guess what? I'm still drawing my TWA retirement! Have been all along!!!

Nobody hates TWA employees, I always looked at you guys as a layoff cushion, besides most of the guys I have met ar good guys, you have the jerks, but they are everywhere. You are not drawing TWA retirement you are being saved by a gov insurance plan, and you're welcome.

@overspeed

Thank You for bringing balance and knowledge to this forum. Some people need to be reminded of the facts instead of the rhetoric.

 

[Buck]

Wrong B Scale was around before. APA brought it in with the help AMFA lawyer M. Seham before the TWU and not under the threat of BK.

Before what? It was a move by the TWU IGMer's to reduce the the cost of labor (for the company) of those that they misrepresented. Just because the APA was represented by Seham for the pilots is irrelevant to how the TWU misrepresents it's members.

C-Scale? Explain?

Another move by the TWU to lower wages for the company. The C-Scaler's had a lower starting pay than the B-Scaler's

SRPs and OSMs, many airlines have had apprentice mechanics and helpers for many years. In fact many airlines didn't even require an A&P until less than 20 years ago. AA had unlicensed AMTs until only recently. Were they substandard workers? No. In fact since we operate under 121 we really don't need A&P's at all per the FARs.

There were apprentice mechanics at American way before you were born. That does not mean that the practice should be condoned. Since I hired, an A&P and some A&E's were required to sign, at least the logbook. Where do you work in one of the back shops? The TWU must of thought they were substandard or they would have never let the diversionary aforementioned pay scales happen. Who sponsors the "I got mine brother" initiative? Under Part 121 means they can do the work but must have an A&P sign with them as a witness. Even Supervisors have A&P's, if their work affects the aircraft. Your statements are communistic, yet you tend toward the division of the classes, just to protect the TWU, an Industrial Union that has no respect for the A&P as a Class and Craft of it's own.

 

[Buck]

How dare you write a post with facts and quotes from the real people, instead of just writing the popular dogma of half the posters on this forum.

The fact is, the TWU saved more jobs at AA, then the other unions did at the other airlines.

At what cost?


I'm sick of listening to and reading posts from mechs complaining about how the TWU stole from them. Nobody said you couldn't go work at another company. We have had six guys that I know about from ORD that have left AA to go work at SWA, FEDEX, corporate, and another career field. Stop complaining and just move on already. and I'm sure where ever you go, you will make twice the money and have a completely satisfying union experience.

 

[toroshark]

Irrelevant from the position that he does not have a vote. Retirees are important, that's why the TWU made sure we didn't go to BK and shaft our retirees like "full pay to the last day" union members at UA, NW, America West, US, and others. Pompous ass? Nice. So and your other "relevant" friends would rather have shafted people like MCI transplant? Nice. At least I am a pompous ass and not an IGM'er like you guys.

You are a total IGM'er . You are on here singing the praises of the failed T/A which would have hosed everyone under 50 to get a few extra coins in your pocket. And if you connect the dots to no pensions for new hires then eventually the pensions of a great many of those under 50. If the TWU would negotiate retiree medical away for a group and let the company steal the match, which was earned in lieu of wages, then how long before the pensions are negotiated away as soon as those without them are the majority. You love to spout out the highlights of the T/A but fail to ever mention all the concessionary language in it. Is that because in your opinion that language would not harm yourself?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

The people who are running that drive are the very ones that wanted all the TWA members at the bottom of the seniority list and wanted you all laid off first They don't want TWA people to have job security either. If you are really and MCI transplant (ex-TWA) then wake up. These guys are just using you and don't be gullible. If AMP is anything like AMFA (the union they backed before AMP) they will give up overhaul in a heart beat to get Line top pay and blame the TWU for it.

Good luck, you need it if you back those guys. I should have enough seniority if we lose airframe overhaul but by your nickname, you will probably not make it.

Don/Bob,

Show me where "the people who are running that drive are the very ones that wanted all the TWA members at the bottom of the seniority list...".

Come on now. Where's your proof? By the way, it was the twu and iam and Kasher that screwed the exTWA guys NOT the membership.

 

[Duke787]

@buck

You tell all of us what is better, making over $30 an hour with benefits at AA, or looking for a job?

Based on the fact that not to many AA employees (pilots, FA's FSC's or AMT's)have left, I would say there are not to many jobs with this pay rate with benefits. If you know of better and are still working at AA, you are a fool.