Commuter policy is broken

[Garfield1966]

Why no comments about the pilot agreement about commuters? This agreement is mirrored after APA's. Commuters save the day in IOR all the time. Locals forget, run late or get stuck in traffic. Or my personal favorite, the cra$$y CTA runs on its' own schedule sometimes. Anyone remember the ORD storm some years ago, when the rain wouldn't stop and the underpasses and CTA tunnels were flooded? Guess who saved the day? COMMUTERS. So, everyone gets their day to shine. Let's stop the complaining and move on. Besides, as a commuter, I am more than happy when we go out short. It means understaffing pay for me. If we are short a few, think X-mas, then the service gets modified and life goes on and I have a little more money to spend on my layover. People need to start looking for the positives in life and stop looking at all the little inequities they encounter. Nobody's life is perfect.
By the way Bill, does your wife give you her jetnet and sabre password? It sounds like she does and that you do a lot of her work related activities on sabre. Do you go on sabre for her to trip trade and whatever else? Do you know if AA found out, your wife could be fired? We just had a commuting pilot quit instead of receiving corrective action for just the same. I think he was just acting like a baby a little too much, but that is just me.

Worse customer service and wasting money ... yep, those sound like positives too me. OH I'm sorry. I forgot it's just what's good for you and not what is good for everyone else..... my bad.

BTW, the number of times a commuter saves the day are far out numbered by the times a commuter screws up the works. Ask a few of the people I have reassigned over the years. They will let you know what they think of commuters.

EDIT:

Since FA's are on board for the safety of the passengers would it not be safer to have the full complement on board? Unless of course you are saying that a full crew is not needed and then perhaps you could talk to AA about reducing the number of FA's needed on board.

 

[AirLUVer]

Actually one of the most annoying thing about commuters are the ones that call in sick after 10pm at night for an early morning trip, and they never had a meal listing for commuting to base (basically showing there was no intention of coming into work). And getting woken up at 3 or 4 in the morning sucks, when I could have known about the trip at 5 or 6 in the evening and planned my rest appropriately.

 

[Garfield1966]

Actually one of the most annoying thing about commuters are the ones that call in sick after 10pm at night for an early morning trip, and they never had a meal listing for commuting to base (basically showing there was no intention of coming into work). And getting woken up at 3 or 4 in the morning sucks, when I could have known about the trip at 5 or 6 in the evening and planned my rest appropriately.

I think that has more to do with lack of respect for ones co-worker than commuting. I have taken countless calls for both and then I get to wake a RSV up at mid-night for a 4am SI. They are not too happy to hear my voice at OH dark thirty.

 

[AAviator]

Gar, before the commuter policy, a crewmember would just call in sick if it didn't look like they were going to get on a flight or get to work on time. They stayed home with pay. The company now has that crew member available for MU or possible RA while at work. No, it may not be perfect, but better than using sick time to cover ones arse. Another thing, the policy is/was used elsewhere in the industry looong before it ever came to AA. You're getting a little emotional about your job aren't you?

IORFA, you've said it before, but lets see if you can back it up.. The bit about jetnet passwords and getting fired. Where does it say that? I understand your beef, but me thinks its just sour grapes...

 

[lpbrian]

Just out of curiosity, just what is the "commuter policy"?

 

[jimntx]

IORFA, you've said it before, but lets see if you can back it up.. The bit about jetnet passwords and getting fired. Where does it say that? I understand your beef, but me thinks its just sour grapes...

From Jetnet: Policies and Procedures--Company Information Systems...
Company Information Systems

"Our Company information systems and all the data residing on them are the property of AA and intended primarily for business purposes. This includes any hardware or software, voicemail systems, E-mail, faxes, copiers, printers, and SABRE. You should protect these systems as confidential and proprietary Company information at all times. Never share your passwords or accounts or provide access to anyone else."

Note that it does not say, "Unless your spouse is checking you in for a commuter flight home while you are at 30,000 feet."

As someone who spent over 20 years in the Information Technology field, let me say that I have never known a company that had computer systems that did not have a prohibition against employees giving out their logon ids and passwords to even other co-workers. And, in every single one of those companies, doing so was a termination offense.

 

[IORFA]

Thanks Jim. Does that work for you AAviator? Trust me I know personally a pilot who retired at age 56-58, not sure exactly, in JAN 08 because he didn't want to deal with the corrective action over something he thought was trivial. Well AA thought differently. His problem was he gave his wife his jetnet and sabre passwords and she was using them. OOPS, bad for him. Besides after you give out the password, that person has unfettered access to all the SSI information among other comapny info. That is not for anyone other than flight crew, but you knew that already.

Garfield- we are there for safety, AA would only have the FAA minimum if it weren't for the food and beverage service AA wants to provide. If not for food, beverage and or duty free, I am almost positive that FAA minimums would be on all flights. AA already lost an arbitration over 777 staffing, so unless they want to reduce the onboard offerings, staffing will stay the same on all aircraft. I can tell them we have too many F/A's all I want, it won't make a difference untill service is reduced. Trust me if service is reduced, staffing will also be reduced at the same time. So by going out understaffed, we do as much of the service as possible with the staffing we get. We are still entitled to a minimum amount of crew rest and will not suffer in that department. My comment about reduced service automatically sent you to think that I meant that a whole service was skipped. Not true. If we are down 1 or 2, most likely everything gets done, just not nearly as fast. Missing 3 or more and then we start having major adjustments. At that point, we are talking about 25-33% of the scheduled working crew. At that point adjustments are necessary, sorry if you don't agree. By the way, last 2 times I was understaffed in Jan and Feb 08, it was from locals who didn't show for whatever reason. I don't care why they didn't show up, that is their problem. Atleast in IOR, commuters solve a lot of commuting problems for each other that CS never even hears about. The local MOD's do a lot of last minute CS than DFW never even knows about.

One more thing, since people are complaining about the commuter policy, can we atleast understand what it covers. It doesn't cover weight restrictions or being the 3rd person for 2 J/S's. It only covers cancelations and I think mechanicals. The only time I used it was when our airport was closed for 4 days with an ice storm. Planes wer stuck in 4-6 inches of ice at the gates. My supervisor didn't even know that the airport was closed, let alone for 4 days. Dumb thing was I still had to tell her what flights I "tried" to commute on even though I couldn't list for them, because they were already canceled. I also called Crew Scheduling to tell them about my AVBL days, there answer was to pick up a trip and call back at least 4 hours before departure to get a TM and call my supervisor to get it excused. So I picked up a trip everyone knew I couldn't fly the day before and waited till 4 hours before departure to call and get a TM that was excused 1 hour later. So I my situation, I think it is great we have this policy. Someone shouldn't be in a situation to receive corrective action, because mother nature forces the closure of an out station for several days. And NO Garfield, I am not going to go to work 3-5 days before my trip because weather MIGHT be coming. Sorry. Even AA didn't see it coming.

 

[operaations]

From Jetnet: Policies and Procedures--Company Information Systems...
Company Information Systems

"Our Company information systems and all the data residing on them are the property of AA and intended primarily for business purposes. This includes any hardware or software, voicemail systems, E-mail, faxes, copiers, printers, and SABRE. You should protect these systems as confidential and proprietary Company information at all times. Never share your passwords or accounts or provide access to anyone else."

Note that it does not say, "Unless your spouse is checking you in for a commuter flight home while you are at 30,000 feet."

As someone who spent over 20 years in the Information Technology field, let me say that I have never known a company that had computer systems that did not have a prohibition against employees giving out their logon ids and passwords to even other co-workers. And, in every single one of those companies, doing so was a termination offense.

I know that a,d I would think most of us know this. But I dont think AA enforces that rule too often. I could name at least 40 flight attendants that have provided their sabre password to trip trade services. Against company regulations. Trip traders are supposed to use the generic employee number and their own password so that their sabre usage can be tracked and billed. But most if not all trip traders require that the flight attendant provide them with thier password so they do not get charged per sabre transaction. It has been going as long as I have been in here and it is not hidden at all.

 

[Skymess]

Operaations. I know that and I would think most of us know this. But I dont think AA enforces that rule too often. I could name at least 40 flight attendants that have provided their sabre password to trip trade services. Against company regulations. Trip traders are supposed to use the generic employee number and their own password so that their sabre usage can be tracked and billed. But most if not all trip traders require that the flight attendant provide them with thier password so they do not get charged per sabre transaction. It has been going as long as I have been in here and it is not hidden at all.

Uh huh. TT services are also not supposed to be trading their clients stuff with OT and guess who is controlling their clients sick calls and OT trading as a result of what is falling in there? Not the regular flight attendants. Pull up N3I's for the entire month and you will see many of the same names mysteriously trading the sequences. It's all the people who don't fly full schedules who are supposedly doing the OT trading. If you pull up the actual trips you will see entirely different names than those who have initially picked the trips out of open time. You can tell what services are doing the trading based on the names of those who are actually flying the trips. A complete violation of the TT service as per AA. Does anyone at AA ever do anything? Nope.

 

[operaations]

You are 100 % correrct sky mess......I could go out there in the first 5 days of the month and last 5 days of the month and give AA probably 100 names and at least 5 bid services that are breaking company regulations. And I could do that with out trying too hard.


I turned in one bid service once and nothing was ever done about it.

 

[IORFA]

There is one in IOR that everyone knows regularly breaks all the rules. Yet no one calls them on it. They act like they ARE crew scheduling and will call you on it. Everyone else be damned. It might take some persistence, but eventually AA will respond.

 

[operaations]

There is a non AA employee in large Intl base that is a huge trader...and when ever i work that Desk and he or she calls I just tell him or her...you are breaking company regulations and I will not move DFP, release AVBL days, or do any Purser flex trades for you. He or She gets soo pissed off. And yells at me. I just tell them to have the actual flight attendant call in. Then they think they are cute and send a hi send for the request but I can de code the set address they are logged and tell who is sending messages from that set. Bottom line is I will not do any thing for a trader.

the flight attendants need toi do something about them


maybe AA will do something.

I think this is the first time SKY mESS we have not fought over something....It is nice

 

[kirkpatrick]

I could name at least 40 flight attendants that have provided their sabre password to trip trade services. Against company regulations. Trip traders are supposed to use the generic employee number and their own password so that their sabre usage can be tracked and billed. But most if not all trip traders require that the flight attendant provide them with thier password so they do not get charged per sabre transaction.

As a former trader I assure you that Sabre charges have nothing to do with trading services preferring to work with passwords. The system cripples you if you don't. Traders can't touch open time; no dropping, picking up or trading is allowed. Traders cannot post HIBOARD messages for their clients. They're supposed to ask the clients to do the posting. Traders can only trade between clients, so if a trader sees a HIBOARD trip they'd like to pick up for a client and that poster isn't a client, they have to call and request that the poster register with the trader so the trade can be done. Traders cannot put you into or take you out of trip trade mode, nor can they wave 30 in 7 or select option II.

No trader could possibly function the way they're supposed to. It's the system. If AA wants to license traders and charge them $1000 for the license, at least give them the means to do what they're supposed to do.

MK

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

My 2 cents worth, will be to give a heads up to JFK/LGA/EWR F/a's who commute(flying) to consider commuting via Amtrak, or Metro North,and living in Connecticut.

No I'm not talking about living in GREENWICH CT ! ($$$$)

You can live Resonably($$$) in 1/2 towns away from places like Bridgeport,New Haven/Hartford, and even New London, where you can Always get on the "bad Weather BUSTER", Amtrak, right into Penn Sta.

I don't know what you guys pay for a NY "crash pad", but you can still get 2 bdr, apt's for around $750.

Get 3 F/a's together, convert a dining room, or even a living room into a third Bdr., throw in $150 a month for elec.(every one nowadays has their own "CP"), and your looking at $300 a month each, PLUS your living in CT.

I'll let you NY F/a's in on another WELL kept secret about CT.

Since a lot of you are waitress's/waiters during trips, CT law requires all employees be paid Minimum wage, Including "waitstaff"

CT's minimum wage is (now) over $8 an Hour, PLUS TIPS !!

(For low seniority F/A's, you'd probably make as much(total), Hustling Tables, as your making at bottom scale flying.

CHECK it OUT !!

 

[Skymess]

maybe AA will do something.

I think this is the first time SKY mESS we have not fought over something....It is nice

Really?