Branson wants to try and sway Dallas for DAL gates

[Kev3188]

And a screwup on the part of DAL that tries to lock up or lockout the market for one or two carriers as the DOJ thought they could do will indeed create national uproar.

No it won't.

 

[WNMECH]

sorry but that is NOT the way the 2006 agreement is written.

DAL specifically says that new entrants will be accommodated first on the process of who volunteers and if that doesn't work then by assignment of flights by DAL.

There are no EXCLUSIVE gates. Preferential does not mean exclusive.

If WN's expectations were that they would dominate 80% of DAL, they shouldn't have signed the 2006 agreement. That is not what it promised.

Again, WN will constantly be facing new carriers coming to DAL based on the very success that WN wants to have.

I predict they will soon plead to have the 2006 agreements revised so they can go to DFW; AA will not be able to do the same in return. Advantage WN.

DL will be also be at both airports.

You are wrong.

I posted the exact section of the scarce resource provision that gives an out to the carriers with preferential leases.
It is written exactly as I said.
ultimately after all remedies and the director is trying to force access for requesting airlines, if lessees are fully utilizing their gates, any scheduling conflicts are settled in favor of the lessees.
In words for you, if the lessees are using them to the max, no new entrant can or will be getting space.

You could try reading the links and the scarce resource provision instead of just bloviating all the time.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

No it won't.

Don't forget WT'S famous qualifiers. A national uproar could be as many as three people...one from each coast, and one from the Midwest. (I forgot to say 'precisely')

 

[WNMECH]

The Wright Amendment Reform Act of 2006 says will be accommodated per the Scarce Resource Provision of the Love Field Competition Plan, and all leases contain that language per the five part agreement.
.
You really should read it.
Preferential does mean preferential if the lessee is fully utilizing their leased gates.


http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUTE-120/pdf/STATUTE-120-Pg2011.pdf

Try sec 5.(a)

If SWA is fully utilizing their gates then per Section 3. B. 4. a. and b. of the scarce resource provision in the Love Field Competition Plan (and written into all DAL leases as required by the Wright Amendment Reform Act of 2006 and the five part agreement), Delta or any other airline that wants gate space will have to look elsewhere.

http://www.dallas-lovefield.com/pdf/CompetitionPlan.pdf

Read exhibit C.

 

[swamt]

Gates are going to va. It will be announced Fri. Hearing this from a good source. Oh we'll we tried. Congrats to the VA employees and let's see what happens now...

 

[eolesen]

Looking forward to it, and a long weekend of long winded responses from WT about how such an injustice has been inflicted on the citizenry of the world...


I just typed out the Scarce Resource provision from the link WNMECH posted above (I had it in PDF, but it's a scan of a letter and thus not something that could be copied from easily...).

Just so that everyone can read it in context, here it is in full, and without emphasis or comment...

SECTION 3. Scope of Operations

A. Lessee shall obtain and maintain all necessary authority from the appropriate state and/or federal agencies in connection with its operations.

B. Lessor and Lessee agree that although most of the areas covered by this Lease are leased to Lessee for its exclusive use, airline facilities at the Airport may become a scarce resource and Lessee does hereby agree to accommodate other airline lessees at its Terminal Lease Area at such times that will not unduly interfere with Airline's operating schedule and upon such reasonable terms as may be agreed upon between Lessee and other airline lessees, taking into consideration all the circumstances of such an accommodation agreement. To ensure compliance with this obligation and to provide open access and uniform treatment for all airline tenants, the following procedure is hereby established.
 

1. All requests for airline facilities accommodation will be received by the Department of Aviation.

2. In the event the requesting airline has demonstrated to the Department of Aviation that it has contacted all airline lessees and has exhausted all reasonable efforts to secure accommodations, the Director shall notify all airline lessees in writing that if requesting airline is not accommodated within thirty (30) days from the receipt of notice, Director shall select one of the airline lessees to comply with the request for accommodation in a non-discriminatory manner.

3. At the end of said thirty (30) day period, if requesting airline has not been accommodated, Director may select a Lessee to accommodate requesting airline and, in that event, shall send written notice to the Lessee to accommodate requesting airline within thirty (30) days from the receipt of said notice. Director shall include in such notice the reason or reasons why Lessee was selected. Lessee shall have ten (10) days after receipt of said notice to comment on or dispute such selection.

4. Unless Director rescinds such selection within said thirty (30) day period, Lessee shall accommodate requesting airline by sharing a portion of its Terminal Lease Area, subject to the following conditions:

a. In case of a conflict between schedules of Lessee and the requesting airline, the Lessee shall have preferential use of its personnel and its Terminal Lease Area.

b. Lessee agrees that if requested to accommodate another carrier pursuant to this paragraph, it will use its good faith efforts to effect such accommodation in a reasonable and equitable manner.

c. The Lessee may assess the requesting airline reasonable fees and charges under an appropriate contract for services rendered to, or subleased facilities shared with, requesting airline and which shall be based on Lessee's direct and indirect costs plus a reasonable allowance for administration. In the event of a dispute regarding these reasonable fees and charges or any other matter regarding this scarce resource provision, including but not limited to, Section 3, Subparagraph 4 a. above, and upon the Directors receipt of written notice of such dispute(s), the Director shall review available information regarding the dispute(s) and, in good faith and in a non-discriminatory manner render a decision regarding the acceptable fees and charges, or any other matter regarding this scarce resource provision, including but not limited to, Section 3, Subparagraph 4 a. above, which shall be binding on the Lessee and the requesting airline.

 

[eolesen]

Here are two extremely relevant sections...
 

B. Lessor and Lessee agree that although most of the areas covered by this Lease are leased to Lessee for its exclusive use, airline facilities at the Airport may become a scarce resource and Lessee does hereby agree to accommodate other airline lessees at its Terminal Lease Area at such times that will not unduly interfere with Airline's operating schedule

a. In case of a conflict between schedules of Lessee and the requesting airline, the Lessee shall have preferential use of its personnel and its Terminal Lease Area.

The short story...

1) WN and UA are not obligated to adjust their schedules in order to accommodate a requesting airline

2) To the degree DL can schedule flights into other airlines' downtime, they have to be accommodated in that downtime,

3) It's really not clear whether the preference offered to the Lessee is extended to a Sublessee with regards to whose schedule takes priority when a conflict occurs.

Hypothetically, I could see the Airport ordering the sublessee's schedule to be reduced as the sublease comes up for renewal (in general, a sublease has a shorter term, often just 6 to 12 months) if there was a situation where all gates were being fully utilized. Think of it as a juniority system...

 

[swamt]

Yes E, and I'm surprised he has not posted yet.  He might be trying to validate the info before posting.  Naaahhh, he would do that would he?
As much as I wanted SWA to get the 2 gates, they will go to VA.  At least I won the wager that Delta will not get those gates.  Now, the thread will move into "will delta stay or go" from LF?  I have no idea.  But it will once again be very entertaining indeed...

 

[WorldTraveler]

well after weeks and yeah months of me saying it you all managed to find the exact language that I have been talking about.

WN and Virgin might use up their full use of gates but UA has not.

I have said for months and will say that DL will end up with access to DAL which is precisely what WN, AA, and its fan base here have been trying to prevent.

And when it is clear what DL can and cannot do at DAL - and there will be more CAN than a lot of people here want o admit - DL will be adding flights in other key markets to/from Texas and the southwest where it makes sense for DL to do so and where WN has hidden behind monopolies for years.

What is clear is that WN has tried for years to avoid competition, DL has given it them and won, and WN continues to try to find even more places to hide.

No one really expected that Virgin wouldn't get access to DAL; the only angst comes from those of you have come up with every reason why DL shouldn't get it.

 

[robbedagain]

Well wt its time you owe swamt the bet. Dl is down further. Its like the bottom of the 9th inning with 2 outs and bases loaded

 

[eolesen]

well after weeks and yeah months of me saying it you all managed to find the exact language that I have been talking about.

Uh, no, Princess, that's not what you've been saying all along.

I have said for months and will say that DL will end up with access to DAL which is precisely what WN, AA, and its fan base here have been trying to prevent.

Again, a great fabrication of the 4,386 posts you've authored on the topic...

AA "and their fan base" have done absolutely nothing with regard to DL. All the WN proponents have argued that WN should have a shot at the gates, which I can't fault them for trying. There's no doubt they would generate the most revenue for the City with their extremely strong (and loyal) customer base than anyone else.

The lone DL proponent (you) has been all over the map... DL would get the two gates, DL would file lawsuits, and as the situation devolved, DL would muscle their way into WN's gates by decree of the Airport....

After several locked threads across several forums, it's only in the past three weeks that you've begrudgingly accepted that the only way DL would be getting access is via UA's gates.

 

[Kev3188]

Don't forget WT'S famous qualifiers. A national uproar could be as many as three people...one from each coast, and one from the Midwest. (I forgot to say 'precisely')

Oh, I'm sure there'll be one noted ASAP. Lol.
 
 

Looking forward to it, and a long weekend of long winded responses from WT about how such an injustice has been inflicted on the citizenry of the world...

I'm girding for the "national uproar" that's coming; it's gonna make Benghazi look like a non-event.

BTW, thanks for taking the time to type out the Scarce Resource language. That had to have been a PITA.

 

[WorldTraveler]

While u all break your fingernails trying to prove me wrong could you just answer the question of whether DL's flights are still for sale.

This isn't my canpaign bubbas

If DL didn't intend to fight to get what they believe they should have they would have pulled their inventory down

When that happens and WN also gets more than 16 gates yyou can declare victory

No one has won or lost anything

The fat lady is far from silent

 

[eolesen]

Thanks for taking the time to type out the Scarce Resource language. That had to have been a PITA.

Not really. It was shorter than most of WT's posts.

 

[WorldTraveler]

so are the DL flights still for sale?