Branson wants to try and sway Dallas for DAL gates

[robbedagain]

One thought in my mind. Can this efforts by branson to persuade Dal officials to have a negative effect?

 

[eolesen]

The only people who are likely to get unhinged are WN's fans who will find that they are going to have to "make do" with just 16 gates.

As if they haven't been facing harsher restrictions over the past 40 years?...

Wake up, Skippy. The folks at WN and are going to be just fine.
 

Yeah, access to DAL is a big deal; it is precisely receiving the attention it is because it highlights yet again the ongoing problems w/ N. Texas aviation which have not been resolved.

It's certainly receiving attention in Dallas, and may be receiving attention in the Atlanta and San Francisco papers, but other than that, I've seen no mention of it in either the Chicago or Los Angeles papers, nor has it seemed to make the national news.

And that's what you don't seem to grasp. It's not a big deal outside Dallas, which is why you're quite unlikely to ever see another legislative effort to address it.

 

[swamt]

The only people who are likely to get unhinged are WN's fans who will find that they are going to have to "make do" with just 16 gates.

And then still have to welcome newcomers if they show up.

Yeah, access to DAL is a big deal; it is precisely receiving the attention it is because it highlights yet again the ongoing problems w/ N. Texas aviation which have not been resolved.

E has beaten me to it.  If anyone gets unhinged over who receives the divested gates at LF it will be you WT.  All the SWA folks out here have posted several times that we all think the gates will go to VA.  This is what we expect to happen.  And I am more convinced VA will be awarded the gates after more info released this afternoon and updates reported.  
 
Now, once these gates are in fact awarded to VA what will Delta do about remaining flying out of LF?  Will they pack up and leave?  I don't think so.  And as you constantly continue to repeat over and over again that Delta will remain at LF when no-one has said they would be removed from LF, as long as Delta is willing to lease other gates or SHARE other gates.  I have said this from the very beginning, so quit posting references to someone is saying Delta will not be at LF after all this is said and done,  that has not, is not, and will not be the issue, you are once again posting alternate information as you have originally posted to change or twist your words to look in your favor.  Just freakin stop it, take a deep breath, sit back, take a drink and wait for it all to come out.  I still remind you that the original wager between us is who will get the divested gates, and I will tell you now, as I have told you from the very beginning, that Delta will not receive the award.  SWA very well and probably won't receive them either, but that wasn't the bet.  Therefore it will just kill YOU if Delta does not receive said gates.   And I really don't give a rats as if they stay or leave LF.    I honestly think we all know VA is getting the gates.  The first step to recovery, WT, is admitting...

 

[WorldTraveler]

One thought in my mind. Can this efforts by branson to persuade Dal officials to have a negative effect?

The negative effect is likely to be that there aren't enough gates to accommodate all of the carriers that want to serve the airport.

WN is the carrier that has sat out participating in the N. Texas long haul market for DECADES because it was banking on being able to fly from DAL. Once it finds that its show is a whole lot smaller than it wants - and there is AMPLE evidence to show that WN really does not like to compete from markets where there is a significant amount of other competitors - WN will be the one who will say they have been jilted and will be asking for the 2006 restrictions to be tossed.

AA will face significant financial pressure because of the erosion of yields in DFW and DCA, two of their highest margin markets, and that is precisely when WN will realize the situation is prime for looking to gain share.

Virgin is likely to get at least some access to DAL; I have never argued otherwise. Far too many people have viewed this whole situation as "one carrier will lose in order for someone else to gain." that is precisely the way so many discussions work here. Rarely does it work that way.

Other carriers can and will succeed in N. Texas as a result of the Wright changes. DL will be one of them.

I have no problems if more than one also will win.

I have repeatedly said that WN will win and win big in N. Texas. They just don't need two more gates to do it.

And a screwup on the part of DAL that tries to lock up or lockout the market for one or two carriers as the DOJ thought they could do will indeed create national uproar.

I don't think that will happen.

 

[robbedagain]

I dont really think that AA will face terribly hvy financial losses at DFW after VA and WN duke it out at DAL

 

[WNMECH]

One thought in my mind. Can this efforts by branson to persuade Dal officials to have a negative effect?

If you mean that it may have a negative effect on Virgins bid for the gates, I say yes.
What Branson says in Dallas and his crowd surfing routine, doesn't carry the weight it does in San Francisco.

However,the DOJ pressure on the City Manager and City council this week, should be enough to clinch the deal for Virgin.
Some on the council have already said they were afraid of the DOJ. (cowards)"I don't want to anger the Department of Justice. As you know, we are already being investigated by the feds in the housing department. We certainly don't want a second federal investigation or to get crosswise with the feds again."


One in particular said he didn't want to get involved from the very beginning.(dereliction of duty to citizens of Dallas)“This is bad. Bad, bad, bad. Keep in mind that council has no legal right to weigh in on who gets the gates" And plenty more. “So I was pretty shocked to discover that the manager’s office has not already signed the consent form and has apparently been instructed to wait for a briefing to the Transportation Committee that is scheduled for Monday. I’ll be there if for no other reason than to argue for steering clear of meddling in a situation where we have no legal rights.”


Then one who is looking out for the rights of the City. "My opinion is that the City of Dallas is the landlord, and the City of Dallas as the landlord has the final call, whatever that call may be. It is my opinion that it is the landlord's call."

The Dallas City manager did the right thing in slowing down the process in order to gather the facts, but now the pressure has come to bear from the DOJ.

Overall, this doesn't change a thing for SWA.
Since 2006, WN has planned to operate 16 gates to the max, and that is all.
These two gates were a surprise opportunity and had to be explored.

If you want my pick on who the winner is in all this, it is AA.
they have been able to keep SWA from expanding again and have boxed in another competitor into Love Field.

Brilliant move.

AA is still pulling the strings even after the Wright amendment flight restrictions are gone and even after they were told to divest the gates.
And into the future, AA will still hold the leases at Love, and SWA will still be the ONLY airline that cant serve both DAL and DFW without being punished.

I believe that WN is not in danger of losing control of any of their 16 gates, as long as they are used with 10 flights a day.
If the city is forced to seek room for a new entrant after said entrant fails all other options in the scarce resource provision of the DAL competition plan, the city will go after gates being used with less than 10 flights a day.

For SWA it will be business as usual.
And as Ron Ricks has said, If Southwest doesn’t get the gates, “it just means that we’ll be growing as an airline; we just won’t be growing in Dallas,” Ricks says. “The good news for us is that there are other great opportunities where we can grow".


As I have said from the beginning, getting more gates at DAL was a long shot. It was a missed opportunity but was not one of WN's big 5 initiatives. We will keep moving forward with them, will be looking forward to finishing the international gates in Houston and flying all the new routes from all the new slots we recently were awarded.

 

[swamt]

Just a guess here, but, sounds to me like the manager is or was leaning towards SWA getting gates.  This quite possibly was the reason for the speaches of wasting the 50K.  I also think the council was divided on who they should go to with, I think one, that was throwing support for Delta to get them.  The executive council meetings, the time paused to gather all the facts, and let the attorneys painstakingly go thru all the data required to see if they give them to SWA will they win any and all suits that would come from any of 3 or all or maybe even more.  But I also think the final award will be waited around just how much more cost are involved with the future suits coming if awarded to SWA.
I agree with you WNMECH, still very positive they are going to VA.  Just hoping for that snow-balls-chance in he!! of an opertunity for us to grow even more at LF.  Be glad to see this part over tomarrow and looking where Delta could possibly end up after all this.   I still think they could quite possibly be the fall guy for something completely out of their control.  But at least the COD has stated they will work with anyone still wanting to come in by utilizing other gates that are not used with 10 or more flights per day and have hinted to the UAL gates to be shared...

 

[FWAAA]

Neither the City Manager nor the City Council has any role in deciding which airline gets the two gates that AA leases.   The US Dep't of Justice holds all of the cards in that decision, and made it clear that VX is their choice.    
 
The only role for the City of Dallas is to accept the sublease between AA and VX.    Studies, lobbying sessions and jawboning are all a waste of time and/or money.   
 
I don't fault Gary Kelly for trying, but you can be sure that WN's lawyers advised him that the odds of getting two more gates when you already have 80% of them were practically zero.    
 
I don't doubt that there are some big-hat Texan A-holes in Dallas who think they get to decide which airline gets those two gates.   I've been to Dallas and met people like that.   Eric Holder isn't all that popular in North Texas.    But he calls the shots on which airline gets those gates.  Full stop.    

 

[WNMECH]

Neither the City Manager nor the City Council has any role in deciding which airline gets the two gates that AA leases.

Not exactly.

The DOJ acknowledges that that City manager has the role of approving or NOT approving this lease.
that is why they sent this letter to the city manager ASKING him to help them settle their case on the merger, by approving who THEY think is the best candidate.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/222328340/Department-of-Justice-Letter-to-City-of-Dallas

 

[WNMECH]

From Dallas Mayor Pro Tem Tennell Atkins,

“Someone out there will get the gates. Right now, it’s not the council’s decision. It’s the city manager’s decision. If American Airlines has the lease and they want to assign the lease, that’s something for the city manager to do,” Atkins said.

“If the city manager comes to the council and says we want some guidance, then there’ll be some guidance from the council to tell the boss what we decide. The gates will be let to someone,” he said.

So does Mayor Pro Tem Atkins want the City Council to guide the city manager on the Love Field gate fight? “No, no, we’re trying to stay out of it. Right now it’s in the city manager’s hands,” Atkins said.

Speaking of Dallas City Manager A.C. Gonzalez, Atkins added: “He makes $400,000 a year. We pay him well.”

 

[WorldTraveler]

and Dallas is trying NOT to politicize the decision at least publicly. It is a business decision that has to conform with appropriate laws.

Keep in mind that the disposition of the two gates is only part of how DAL will end up post Wright.

It may be the first step but it will not be the last.

 

[WNMECH]

and Dallas is trying NOT to politicize the decision at least publicly. It is a business decision that has to conform with appropriate laws.

Keep in mind that the disposition of the two gates is only part of how DAL will end up post Wright.

It may be the first step but it will not be the last.

We know that WN's plans wont change if they operate at least 10 flights per gate.
The question will be how Delta will gain access and how the other carriers will have to cooperate if they don't fully utilize their gates. This will be discussed in a separate thread soon to come.

 

[WorldTraveler]

who says 10 flights/day is the magic number? Is WN willing to cap growth of the airport for itself at 160 flights/day? It could easily operate another 20-40 without changing its procedures or violating the curfew.

UA is in the crosshairs. and DAL still has to accommodate other carriers. UA will get company whether it wants it or not. They simply don't have the resources to add large RJs to DAL and large RJs are the only aircraft - that could feasibly compete with mainline flights in key UA hubs.

 

[WNMECH]

who says 10 flights/day is the magic number? Is WN willing to cap growth of the airport for itself at 160 flights/day? It could easily operate another 20-40 without changing its procedures or violating the curfew.

UA is in the crosshairs. and DAL still has to accommodate other carriers. UA will get company whether it wants it or not. They simply don't have the resources to add large RJs to DAL and large RJs are the only aircraft - that could feasibly compete with mainline flights in key UA hubs.

I said at least 10 flights a day. They could fly more.


I read somewhere that Dallas considers gates to be fully utilized when they have at least 10 flights per day.

If SWA is fully utilizing their gates then per Section 3. B. 4. a. and b. of the scarce resource provision in the Love Field Competition Plan (and written into all DAL leases as required by the Wright Amendment Reform Act of 2006), Delta or any other airline that wants gate space will have to look elsewhere.

It states that if no accommodations have been found for requesting airlines and the director is forcing airlines to help, the gate lessee will use good faith efforts to accommodate a requesting carrier, but in case of a conflict between schedules of lessee and the requesting airline, the lessee will have preferential use of its personnel and its Terminal Lease Area.

In other words, if all the gates are fully utilized, since all the gates are preferential leased gates, the lessee will not be forced to accommodate anyone.

No gates, no flights.

 

[WNMECH]

UA and VX may be asked to share gate space until they are fully utilizing their leased gates as required by the scarce resource provision in the Love Field Competition Plan.