FAA to get involved with DAL gates, starts investigation

[WorldTraveler]

you don't seem to understand not only that laws can be challenged as illegal - antitrust laws existed long before WARA and will ALWAYS govern an antitrust case before any other law.
 
and, no the DOJ and every other agency of the Executive Branch is not above having its own authority challenged in court.  If you think otherwise, you need to get off the computer and do some research. 
 
Given that the DOJ itself said that they were unprepared to challenge the AA/US merger request but accepted a settlement that has resulted in MORE concentration of the Dallas market, it is an absolute given that the DOT's position regarding converting the gates to common use will not only be shown to be correct in what it would have done for the DAL market but also in fulfilling all of the laws that COD and WN seem to think are in conflict.
 
Given that a previous DOJ statement regarding WARA is coming to place exactly as they predicted with a more consolidated marketplace, it is impossible for DAL or WN to argue that the fears that were expressed regarding market  concentration are not coming to place.
 
There is NO protection in WARA or any other law for anti-consumer activities and that is exactly what has happened in N. Texas. 
 
btw, DOT O&D data for the 1st quarter of 2015 is out and it shows that WN gained about 5 1/2 share points of the combined DAL/DFW US domestic market and it came almost entirely from AA whose DFW local revenue went down by 5%.  DL and VX both gained a slight amount of extra revenue but the major shift has been solely to further concentrate the market between two players - not increase the presence of others.    DL and VX both gained because they have more seats - exactly what should be happening. 

 

[700UW]

If you knew the history of the law by educating yourself, the WARA is not against anti-trust laws, those battles were fought when Hutchenson introduced the WARA.
 
And you will get this thread locked like the others, this is about WARA, DAL, WN and DL, not US and AA.
 
Read the law:
 


Educate yourself:
 
https://www.govtrack.../109/s3661/text
 
There is nothing in the WARA that limits WN to 16 gates.
 
And DL isnt part of the signatory agreement.
 
(e) Limitation on Statutory Construction-
(1) IN GENERAL- Nothing in this Act shall be construed--
(2) FACILITIES- Paragraph (1)(E)--

• 
  (A) to limit the obligations of the parties under the programs of the Department of Transportation and the Federal Aviation Administration relating to aviation safety, labor, environmental, national historic preservation, civil rights, small business concerns (including disadvantaged business enterprise), veteran's preference, disability access, and revenue diversion;
  ( to limit the authority of the Department of Transportation or the Federal Aviation Administration to enforce the obligations of the parties under the programs described in subparagraph (A);
  
  (i) to construct additional gates beyond the 20 gates referred to in subsection (a); or
  (ii) to modify or eliminate preferential gate leases with air carriers in order to allocate gate capacity to new entrants or to create common use gates, unless such modification or elimination is implemented on a nationwide basis.
  

 
See the law prevents anyone from forcing DAL to make those gates into common use.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Accommodation requirements have nothing to do with common use gates.
 
DAL COULD HAVE met the accommodation requirements by having common use gates.
 
Their obligation to meet those requirements is not diminished or eliminated by not having common use gates. 
 
Not one federal agency has sided with the position that you, DAL, or the COD has made that WN can consolidate the market and eliminate a competitor.
 
the most recent DOT data will show precisely that WN's position has increased solely at the expense of AA and that other carriers cannot participate in the increased growth of the market because they don't have access to sufficient number of gates.
 
DAL and DFW are a duopoly controlled by two airlines.  That is highly uncompetitive and will not stand up in an antitrust challenge.
 
If you think AA and WN should be free to do what they are doing, tell the court you want to be a part of the case. 

 

[700UW]

The five party agreement does not contain provisions for common use gates, and the WARA specifically states, DAL DOES NOT have to convert any gates to common use.
 
That is why the DOJ awarded the sublease of AA's gates to VX.
 
You wont ever think clear with your biases.
 
And the DFW/DAL is considered one market.
 
SEC. 5. LOVE FIELD GATES.
(a) In General- The city of Dallas, Texas, shall reduce as soon as practicable, the number of gates available for passenger air service at Love Field to no more than 20 gates. Thereafter, the number of gates available for such service shall not exceed a maximum of 20 gates. The city of Dallas, pursuant to its authority to operate and regulate the airport as granted under chapter 22 of the Texas Transportation Code and this Act, shall determine the allocation of leased gates and manage Love Field in accordance with contractual rights and obligations existing as of the effective date of this Act for certificated air carriers providing scheduled passenger service at Love Field on July 11, 2006. To accommodate new entrant air carriers, the city of Dallas shall honor the scarce resource provision of the existing Love Field leases.
 
(Removal of Gates at Love Field- No Federal funds or passenger facility charges may be used to remove gates at the Lemmon Avenue facility, Love Field, in reducing the number of gates as required under this Act, but Federal funds or passenger facility charges may be used for other airport facilities under chapter 471 of title 49, United States Code.

 

[WorldTraveler]

we've been thru every one of those points before.  There is no need to continue to repeat the same thing over and over.  The court will rule. 
 
The data since DAL was opened to longhaul flights is showing EXACTLY what was predicted. which is the consolidation of the N. Texas market between AA and WN to the exclusion of other carriers. 
 
It is precisely as the data comes in that the court will find it hard to ignore the warnings that were cited or to accept WN's arguments that it should gain further control of gates at DAL to the exclusion of competitors.
 
it is very possible that the court will wait until 2nd quarter 2015 data is out before ruling - which could be late this year.   The DOT's own data will provide a very accurate assessment of what is happening in the market.  .

 

[700UW]

Data has NOTHING to do with the five party agreement and the WARA.
 
But you are so biased, you cant understand the agreement and the law.

Seems the COD and WN are on the same page.

 

[WorldTraveler]

DOT data absolutely does show whether the market is concentrating or not - and it is. 
 
good for COD and WN.  DAL is a federally funded airport and the feds get to set the rules.
 
Works that way with a lot of things.
 
Let's see what the judge says. 

 

[700UW]

And how many times do I have to post that the Feds cant withhold any funds from DAL due to a dispute over the WARA?
 
Stop with the straw man facts, you are losing and posting misinformation.

 

[WorldTraveler]

you can post as many times as you want but since the DOT and FAA both said they would do just that, your argument is with them, not me. 

 

[700UW]

Nope, no argument with them, only have a disagreement with a biased posted who is so blinded he cant understand the WARA and DAL.

Tired of misinformation, the law is black and white, but to you its red, dark blue and white.

 

[WorldTraveler]

so it's misinformation if I say it even though it is the DOT and FAA that have said what they will do?
 
don't think so.
 
DOT data overwhelmingly shows that removing restrictions at DAL has brought fares down for the entire metroplex - with a dramatic impact on AA. But it has simply shifted share from AA to WN with little to no ability for other carriers to participate.  WARA has created a duopoly that provides no ability for other carriers to push into the market.  and since those carriers all have had the ability to serve DFW for years, the argument that they could serve DFW doesn't work,
 
Interestingly, the best argument for what competition can do is in markets like ATL, DTW, ORD, and other markets where ULCCs have grown.  In many cases there is one more viable competitor even if the dominant carrier has retained its position in those markets.  Fares have come down in the market as a whole and an additional carrier has been added to those markets.
 
 
at DAL/DFW, in markets where a third carrier has been able to viably serve the combined DAL/DFW market, all 3 or more carriers have benefitted.  In markets where only AA and WN now serve the market, all WN has done is take share directly from AA. 
 
and since WN has actually increased its average fares in many of its traditional DAL markets from DAL, it proves that WN has no motivation whatsoever to pass along benefits once it controls the market - which is what it has done in markets like DAL/DFW to SAT, AUS, HOU, MSY, ABQ for years. IN some cases, AA has managed to gain some share of those markets as WN has cut capacity in order to fund longhaul flights but WN is still overwhelmingly the largest carrier in the original DAL markets at average fares that are as high or higher than AA. 
 
The largest benefit to consumers comes from flights that are added by competitors in addition to AA and WN.
 
As much as you want to cling to WARA as if it is unchangeable, data that is coming in proves that the DOJ's 2006 concerns are completely valid.  DAL/DFW is a duopoly with little to no ability for other carriers besides AA and WN to benefit.
 
Laws can and do get changed.
 
The chances that the limitations of WARA that you cling to will stand after DOT data is seen and DAL/WN's handling of the exUA gate issue is reviewed is ZILCH. 
 
WARA is anti-competitive and won't stand up under the scrutiny of .antitrust examination.    It's no wonder WN has wanted DL out before the evidence became clear of what is happening to the DAL/DFW market. 

 

[Kev3188]

 

[swamt]

I agree Kev.  Someone is trying their hardest to get another thread shut down. It's time for the moderators to fix this problem. STOP punishing the entire group within a discussion and punish the individual(s).   This is really getting old.  WT is doing the same thing over, and over, and over again...

 

[WorldTraveler]

you mean you and others don't really want to know the facts of the case because if you did then you would have to face the reality that WARA is uncompetitive.
 
Antitrust enforcement is an ART, not a science, which means that the DOJ can be found to be wrong.
 
When it is shown that the ASSUMPTIONS that the DOJ used to make some of its rulings regarding DAL, and some of the provisions of WARA are shown to be clearly anticompetitive, and that doesn't even include what has happened with the exUA gates, then the case against the current 18 gate WN setup at DAL is even harder to allow.
 
Quite simply, this has been a damning week for DAL and WN.  The FAA came out, WN is running a decent operation at DAL despite DL's presence, and now DOT data is coming out showing that AA and WN increased fares on former WN routes from DAL because of reduced capacity in order to fund increased WN longhaul flying  from DAL.  Add in that the DAL/DFW market is actually MORE concentrated between AA and WN post Wright in markets where there is no significant 3rd carrier and it becomes clear that the  concerns the DOJ expressed in 2006 were right.
 
The court will take its time and review all of the information that continues to come in showing how the market has evolved post Wright, and the case is building not only for DL to remain on the basis of laws which DAL has acknowledged existed, but which also include antitrust enforcement which has to be reviewed based on actual, not theoretical realities of the market.  It is clear that WARA has served and will only serve to create a duopoly in the DAL/DFW market with minimal opportunity for carriers other than AA and WN to benefit and where AA and WN are very likely to eventually raise fares and reduce capacity in markets that the two can control - exactly what the DOJ is accusing all of the legacy carriers of doing but where the case against AA and WN is so clearly obvious regarding DAL/DFW. 
 
I'm afraid you better get used to seeing DL jets at DAL and DAL/COD better start coming up with a plan to open up even more of DAL to competitors to ensure that competition in the metroplex is really enhanced and the market is not just carved up between AA and WN with no chance for other carriers to participate.    

 

[eolesen]

Sheesh... right back into the circular arguments as I'd predicted.

Oh, Moderator......