Bottom Line

[Raptor]

<_< ------- "IF" You can retire at 55, go for it! Bless you son!------ But if you feel you'll have to go back to work after a few years, to maintain your level of lifestyle, your better off staying on the active payroll! The reason all exTWA people have such high seniority is that we got screwed by Icahan, and prior TWA management, and
had our retirement frozen. Then turned over to the PBGC in bankruptcy! Unlike yourself, our AA retirement started in 2002, a year after the merger/buyout! Which it should be! Consequently, we have to work longer to get to the same spot you will at 55! ----- Do I like it? Hey guy, you have to do want you gata do!!! And who said life was fair? As for shutting this place down? I personally don't think it'll happen! In fact, I heard a rumor today that we'll be doing the Internet/ cell phone interface mod prototype here at MCIE!

MCI because of what happened to you guys, I would think you would be the last guy who would want to go on strike, you have seen first hand what happens when you go up against Multibillion dollar companies, you lose.
Because of what happened to you is why I do not want to go on strike and fight this company, I too could be in your same boat if AA filed bankruptcy or sold off Maintenance, instead of retireing at 55 I would still be here in my sixties and beyond, No thank you, I think I will stay happy with the pay and benefits I now have and retire at 55 thank you.

To me a few extra dollars does not come anywhere close to taking a chance of having to work much longer in this hostile enviroment.
I would be willing to go along with the quality work program to make things uncomfortable for AA and also we could discontinue the working together thing.

My condolences's to what happened to you. I really mean that man, that sucks.
I do wish you the best you have already suffered enough.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----- Hey Ken!---- What would you say to this yahoo? Do you believe he's pretending to be something he's not? Or is the younger generation really that spinless? :huh:

 

[TWU informer]

<_< ----- Hey Ken!---- What would you say to this yahoo? Do you believe he's pretending to be something he's not? Or is the younger generation really that spinless? :huh:

He is to stupid to understand that if AA wants to close the doors and file BK due to Pilot demand and pension payments, he couldn't give a enough concessions to save overhaul and his current payscale.

Raptor is nothing more than a I AM Society anti-union, heavily medicated, fear mongering, TWU Stooge. He actually believes the world evolves around his little cirlce of influence and the Tulsa Maintenance Base.

 

[TWU-GOTTA-GO]

MCI because of what happened to you guys, I would think you would be the last guy who would want to go on strike, you have seen first hand what happens when you go up against Multibillion dollar companies, you lose.
Because of what happened to you is why I do not want to go on strike and fight this company, I too could be in your same boat if AA filed bankruptcy or sold off Maintenance, instead of retireing at 55 I would still be here in my sixties and beyond, No thank you, I think I will stay happy with the pay and benefits I now have and retire at 55 thank you.

To me a few extra dollars does not come anywhere close to taking a chance of having to work much longer in this hostile enviroment.
I would be willing to go along with the quality work program to make things uncomfortable for AA and also we could discontinue the working together thing.

What a pathetic post. :down:

Just keep bootlicking for the man, see how far it gets you.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

<_< ------- Bears, I may be in my sixties, but Viagra, believe me, is "NOT" a part of my life!!!------ Enjoy your "Muff Daddy"!!!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

GOOD for you MCI.

Me, ....SH!T...I'm not proud. Me and the (big) "V", know each other WELL !!

Those fuuking commercials, crack me up.---- "If you experience an ERECTION lasting 4 or more hours, contact you doctor Immediately"

4 HOURS ........"What are you SH!TTING ME" ??????? .., SH!T I'd settle for 4 MINUTES" !!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

<_< ----- Hey Ken!---- What would you say to this yahoo? Do you believe he's pretending to be something he's not? Or is the younger generation really that spinless? :huh:

Nothing I say would change Raptor's mind set. He supported the AMFA drive in the past but posts that he is afraid to fight. "you have seen first hand what happens when you go up against Multibillion dollar companies, you lose. Because of what happened to you is why I do not want to go on strike and fight this company, I too could be in your same boat"

Living in fear so he can accept what management gives him he will be forced to work outside AA full time because he did not fight when the time calls for it. Fighting once does not ensure victory. Fighting EVERY time you are threatened is what is needed.

The younger generation, which I am not exactly part of, I hit 44 in December, take things for granted, yes, but by leading by example enough of the younger generation will see that living in fear only gaurantees a life cringing at shadows and things that go boo.

" if AA filed bankruptcy or sold off Maintenance,"

Okay, so AA files BK or sells maintenance off? What are your options? Living on your knees forever? Or fighting to protect your craft?

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< -- Tell me Son? Do you believe everything your managers tell you? Obviously you do! Too bad! Someday it might get you in trouble!----- :down:

Yea especially "Its good to go" or "All you gotta do is,,,,".

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- Another mistake Raptor's making is that he's "assuming' that lucrative AA retirement will still be there when he's ready to retire! At the rate "Big Business" is attacking retirements, there's a good chance it won't be! The only way to protect it is with aggressive Union participation! AA already has floated a balloon to see our reaction to reducing retiree's medical insurance!------ So go ahead Raptor! Set on your tail feathers, set back, and "be safe"! :down:------ Some say that by working for TWA I've lost! Well, as you say, I've been there! But you know what? I can walk down the street with my head held high knowing I did what I had to to provide for my family! And am I ashamed of that fact? Hell no! In fact I'm damn prude of it!

 

[Raptor]

<_< ----- Hey Ken!---- What would you say to this yahoo? Do you believe he's pretending to be something he's not? Or is the younger generation really that spinless? :huh:

I am 45 as well so I am not all that young, I just do not take unnecessary chances, remember I am living very well on the pay that I get, I have everything I need and really quite a bit more than I need.
so why would I want to put my future at risk that to me is not logical, look what happened to you.
you are not a head you are way behind.
I just want to retire from the game and the fighting and let you guys keep fighting it out if that is what you want.
I understand the whole protect the profession attitude but I really could care less about Aviation or the profession, I am happy using it and then forgetting about it when I am done with it.
TWU Informer had ONE thing right in his post and that is I am part of the ME society but that's ok, I can't think of a better cause than ME and my family.
Ken is also right my mind is made up, I am done fighting, except the passive kind, you know slowing down but still collecting a paycheck.
Besides I really think everyone here knows that we will not go on strike, when was the last time the TWU did that at AA 40 years ago.

Bob had a point in one of his post's that I agree with and that is you cannot stop taking all risk's, I do still take risk's just not as many as I use to take and before I take a risk, I weigh the possible gains against the risk, for example I still play the stock market and sometimes I lose like when I bought the Northwest stock and they went bankrupt but usually I win in the market.
One of the reasons I play the market is all I have to lose or gain is money, and I only gamble with money I can afford to lose, so it is worth the risk, I do not want to gamble with my retirement because that is something b]I[/b] cannot afford to lose, my health is not what it once was and I really need to be retired soon not working at AA or anywhere else.
This like anything else is really quite simple the people who want and need to fight should do that for whatever reason they want to do it, the people who do not want or need to fight should do that for whatever reason, and that is really pretty much what will happen on this next contract, the MAJORITY will win wether it be fighters or non fighters that is what a Union is all about right guys, MAJORITY RULE. once again I am not for Majority rule I am for ME, but that is how a Union works. ( more or less ) :unsure:

Relax guys everything will be fine for me one way or the other.
It is not about being scared it is about being part of the ME society which constitutes the Majority these days in my opinion. We will know if I am right or not soon enough.

 

[Raptor]

<_< ------- Another mistake Raptor's making is that he's "assuming' that lucrative AA retirement will still be there when he's ready to retire! At the rate "Big Business" is attacking retirements, there's a good chance it won't be! The only way to protect it is with aggressive Union participation! AA already has floated a balloon to see our reaction to reducing retiree's medical insurance!------ So go ahead Raptor! Set on your tail feathers, set back, and "be safe"! :down:------ Some say that by working for TWA I've lost! Well, as you say, I've been there! But you know what? I can walk down the street with my head held high knowing I did what I had to to provide for my family! And am I ashamed of that fact? Hell no! In fact I'm damn prude of it!

You are wrong on both counts I am not assuming the AA retirement will be there in 10 years the amount of time I have left in fact there is a good chance it won't be there but I am hoping it will still be there till at least I retire after that who cares what happens to it, I will already be on the boat.
Also aggressive Union participation will do nothing for retirement, since retirements are not even contractual, it is a gift from AA, one they can take back if they get to pissed off.
The reason I am taking the stand that I am is so that I can walk down the street with my head held high knowing that I did what I had to do to provide for my family !
I also am not ashamed of that fact, Hell I am damn proud of it as well.
The hell with everyone else's need's and want's ones self and their family is all that really matters. RIGHT. sounds like we agree on that one thing.

I still feel sorry for you ( kind of ) but you made your choice and now you are living with it.
that's all you can do.

 

[TWU informer]

Also aggressive Union participation will do nothing for retirement, since retirements are not even contractual, it is a gift from AA, one they can take back if they get to pissed off.
The reason I am taking the stand that I am is so that I can walk down the street with my head held high knowing that I did what I had to do to provide for my family !

Why don't you get your contract book and read it you idiot.

Specifically try reading Article 40 - Retirement Benefits

You are nothing more than a disgrace to the public education system.

(1) Final Average Compensation

The compensation used for calculating a member's retirement benefit will
be the average of the highest forty eight (48) consecutive months of pay
out of the one hundred and twenty (120) consecutive months of pay
preceding the date of retirement. The definition of the compensation used
to determine the forty eight (48) and one hundred and twenty (120) month periods is unchanged. Various formulas exist for benefits, e.g., 1.667 X Final Average Earnings X Years of credited service, which are also unchanged.

(2) Eligibility For Benefits – Early Retirement

A member will be eligible for early retirement on or after attaining the
earlier of:

(a) age 55 and fifteen (15) years of credited service; or

(B) age 60 and ten (10) years of credited service. Pension benefits determined as of early retirement will be reduced 3% for each year that the member is less than age 60.

(f) The attachment on the following page is agreed to by the parties and is incorporated as part of the Agreement.

ARTICLE 40 – RETIREMENT BENEFITS
195
Page 3 of 5

It is better to keep your mouth shut and be perceived as an idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

 

[Raptor]

You guys should elect me to be in the International I will take care of ME....... Uh I mean you.

You know I hammer on guys like Burchette for cutting deals for themselves but that is really the kettle calling the pot black, truth is more than likely I would do the same thing those guys are doing.

They cut deals for themselves and then parachute out with their golden Parachutes leaving everyone else to go down with the plane, unfortunatly I am one of the guys left on the plane.
If I was smart I would be like Burchette bull#### the masses then get into a Union office and grab one of those golden Parachutes. :unsure:

If retirement is part of the negotiations that is good, but they can still take it away, if your one of the guys without a Parachute and right now I am. :angry:

Luckily for me Burchette, who is 48 told me personally that he too is looking to retire in the not to distant future so I am sure retirement will be at the top of his list of things to protect.

Once again relax everything will be fine.
For me.

 

[TWU informer]

If retirement is part of the negotiations that is good, but they can still take it away, if your one of the guys without a Parachute and right now I am. :angry:

With so-called "union men" like yourself around, indeed taking away retirement should be a piece of cake for management.

Where would you draw a line in the sand and grow a set? Is there any limit to your complete submissive attitude?

Given that you were so quickly proven in error about the retirement being in the contract, is it possible you are also wrong on nearly everything else you "think" and "believe"?

When taking your philosophy as a possible truth, then I disagree with your assertion that everything will be fine. If we by chance find that you are correct about the majority thinking like you do, then not only will things be not so fine for youself, but everyone is in deep doodoo also.

 

[Raptor]

With so-called "union men" like yourself around, indeed taking away retirement should be a piece of cake for management.

Where would you draw a line in the sand and grow a set? Is there any limit to your complete submissive attitude?

Given that you were so quickly proven in error about the retirement being in the contract, is it possible you are also wrong on nearly everything else you "think" and "believe"?

When taking your philosophy as a possible truth, then I disagree with your assertion that everything will be fine. If we by chance find that you are correct about the majority thinking like you do, then not only will things be not so fine for youself, but everyone is in deep doodoo also.

I think we already established that I am not a Union man but instead a Man who is in a Union, ( huge difference ) there is actually a place where I would draw the line in the sand, and that is should AA want to take the retirement I would do whatever is necessary to keep it because that is what is important to me.

Money on the other hand is not very important as I have plenty of it for my needs.
really retirement is the only concern of mine at the present time, so should AA decide to take our retirement count me in on the fight up to and including a strike, other than that I think I will pass.

Thanks for asking though.

Nope

not wrong on the things that really matter, so far doing things my way has worked out really well for me, and that is what really matters, so I should probably continue to do that.

I guess I could do things MCI Transplants way look where that got him, or I could do things the Northwest Mechanics way look where that got them, or maybe even United Mechanics way look where that got them.
I am in a pretty sweet spot at the present so if AA leaves my retirement alone, then I will leave them alone and get out of EVERYONE'S hair in about 10 years to leave you guys to continue fighting it out. I for one do not think AA will come after our retirement on this next contract, which is why I am not very concerned right now but of course we shall soon see if that is on the table

 

[MCI transplant]

You are wrong on both counts I am not assuming the AA retirement will be there in 10 years the amount of time I have left in fact there is a good chance it won't be there but I am hoping it will still be there till at least I retire after that who cares what happens to it, I will already be on the boat.
Also aggressive Union participation will do nothing for retirement, since retirements are not even contractual, it is a gift from AA, one they can take back if they get to pissed off.
The reason I am taking the stand that I am is so that I can walk down the street with my head held high knowing that I did what I had to do to provide for my family !
I also am not ashamed of that fact, Hell I am damn proud of it as well.
The hell with everyone else's need's and want's ones self and their family is all that really matters. RIGHT. sounds like we agree on that one thing.

I still feel sorry for you ( kind of ) but you made your choice and now you are living with it.
that's all you can do.

<_< ------ I hate to breack your booble Raptor, but just because you retire doesn't mean it'll be there for you for the rest of your life! They can terminate it a day after you receive your first check, and that check would be worthless! Or ten years! In other words, they can sink that boat, with you on it, at any time! That's unless----- You have someone (UNION) watching out for you!