Bottom Line

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- Informer, I've got a hypothetical question for you.------- If in the near future, AA were to acquire another Airline, do you feel the majority of the TWU membership would favor handling the seniority issue the same as hey did with TWA?----- Honest answer please!

 

[TWU informer]

<_< ------- Informer, I've got a hypothetical question for you.------- If in the near future, AA were to acquire another Airline, do you feel the majority of the TWU membership would favor handling the seniority issue the same as hey did with TWA?----- Honest answer please!

Good Question, the TWU dovetailed AirCal employees and shafted the TWA employees.

It really wasn't the TWU Membership that decided anything, it was the TWU Leadership blaming the membership as a scape goat.

You have surely been with the TWU long enough now to know the membership has very little say in the affairs and direction of the "union". I do believe if the membership had been allowed to vote on the seniority issue, both AirCal and TWA employees would have been stapled though.

I feel certain, the TWU would shaft the seniority of any AMFA represented carrier and believe the rest would be on a case by case basis.

You can also take to the bank that if another carrier were to acquire AA, the TWU Membership would be screaming bloody murder if they were treated the same way the TWA employees were.

Sorry if that appears to be avoiding the question, but that is my honest answer.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ---- Honest answeer! Thank you!

 

[Raptor]

I like how he forgets about vacation losses in the concession, while he now has to BUY a week out of his paycheck, but apparently considers that good. Money is not a problem for him, yet he was all upset about the concessios, but got over it.

The guy keeps claiming he was involved in fighting for AMFA. The best I can recall he never attended a single organizers meeting, was not involved in the lawsuit against AA, and I believe I only saw him at one informational meeting. I do know he got a few cards signed and turned them in, but I never witnessed him "fighting" for anything related to AMFA. I have however heard of him fighting with his co-workers on more than one occasion. So not only is he obviously completely ignorant regarding our current contract, he also likes to enhance with fictitious additions, his stories to make himself feel good and feel important.

You can read it for yourself, the man is anti-union and I have no doubt that if there were a strike at AA, we would all be calling him scab instead of Raptor.
Well then why dont you go buy 52 weeks off without pay per year, go fondle yourself since the love of self is far more important to you than our well being or that of future AMT's? That would leave us with one less anti-union potential scab that will no doubt vote yes on the next concession.

Footnote:

This brings out a major flaw, one that many in the world also have. He believes that the end justifies the means. He is willing to set aside principle (if he had any) to achieve his goals. He functions by self-interest rather than by belief or standards. His standards are "anything that is good for Raptor," which is self-righteousness and self-interest. These are the principles by which he feels he should live his life to be successful. He does not base them on anything godly or even ethical but strictly on human reason.

He is willing to do anything to get his way. By comparing together different parts of the Bible on folks like him of the past, Raptor will come out smelling like manure, not roses.

A few suggestions for us all to think about:

1. Be nice to people and give help to someone who requires it. Remember by helping others you are also helping yourself in the long run.

2. Doing a true act of unselfishness usually brings happiness to the giver because happiness is about giving rather than receiving. Happiness it is not about how much money you have in the bank but the level of selfishness that you have. The more selfishness the less happiness – perfect inverse proportion.

3. Be honest to others and to yourself, and if you need to ask somebody for some favor do one in return.

4. Put others before you, especially your family, friends, and co-workers. Find out about their needs and wants and then think of your selfish ones.

5. Be considerate to people you know and to strangers. Remember a good deed never goes waste.

I have been watching a show on cults on the History channel this morning and it is interesting how much cults and unions have in common, the main requirement is a bunch of FOLLOWERS banding together for a common cause and those devoted FOLLOWERS chastizing anyone who refuses to follow, I guess I would make a terrible cult follower just as I make a terrible Union follower, I am just an all around terrible follower period.
buts that's ok at least I won't get caught up in any mass suicides or any other kind of mass tragedy.

I must go my own way, and do what I feel is the right thing to do, the fact is Informer I probably did at least as much as you did in the last AMFA drive, admittedly you were in many more drives than I was, I could argue with you about who did what but what would be the point, that is part of the past, and I don't live in the past but in the present.

You don't have to like me or my Opinions anymore than I like you or your rediculous Opinions, but what you do have to do is understand that I will NOT be manipulated into doing what someone else wants me to do, I will not follow anyone simply because they think their cause is just and right, I am now and will always be an INDIVIDUAL with INDIVIDUAL thought and self control NOT group control or thought.

If I were to decide to cross a picket line you can be sure that I would seek you out personally and cross OVER you, just so I could see first hand just what kind of man you really are.
more than likely you would turn out to be what I think you are a follower with big words and little action. We both know who the other is.
You like to think you know what I am all about but often times you are wrong, of course the flip side to that is I like to think I know what you are all about but I could be wrong as well.
Odds are neither of us will ever get to truly find out what the other person is all about and that I am sure is just fine with both of us.

By the way there is a very fine line between Religion and a cult, ALL cults start out as a Religion.
I think you would do very well in a Union, A Cult or A Religion you have all the qualities that are needed. I would do terrible in any of the above as noted by my chastizers, Individualality does not go well in such organizations.

By the way you are terrible at #1 on your list you are anything but a nice person.
It is doubtfull you follow the other items on your list either.

Have a nice day.

 

[aafsc]

Good Question, the TWU dovetailed AirCal employees and shafted the TWA employees.

It really wasn't the TWU Membership that decided anything, it was the TWU Leadership blaming the membership as a scape goat.

You have surely been with the TWU long enough now to know the membership has very little say in the affairs and direction of the "union". I do believe if the membership had been allowed to vote on the seniority issue, both AirCal and TWA employees would have been stapled though.

I feel certain, the TWU would shaft the seniority of any AMFA represented carrier and believe the rest would be on a case by case basis.

You can also take to the bank that if another carrier were to acquire AA, the TWU Membership would be screaming bloody murder if they were treated the same way the TWA employees were.

Sorry if that appears to be avoiding the question, but that is my honest answer.

The TWU agreed to binding arbitration regarding TWA. The ARBITRATOR (Kasher) is responsible for what is now in place; not the TWU. Don't know why MCITransplant and others feel they were "screwed" by the TWU; especially when they have after the transaction what they had before it (seniority in STL and MCI). They are still pissed that they couldn't staple the nAAtives system wide. It was the legal duty of the TWU TO PROTECT THE NAATIVES against a potential TWA onslaught.

You blame the TWU for screwing the TWAers. Yet, if the TWU would have agreed to give them DOH system wide (without a fight), thus stapling the nAAtives; you would be on here raising hell and charging the TWU with screwing the nAAtives by not performing it's fiduciary responsibility of protecting it's members . As far as your concerned, the TWU can do NOTHING right.

 

[TWU informer]

The TWU agreed to binding arbitration regarding TWA. The ARBITRATOR (Kasher) is responsible for what is now in place; not the TWU. Don't know why MCITransplant and others feel they were "screwed" by the TWU; especially when they have after the transaction what they had before it (seniority in STL and MCI). They are still pissed that they couldn't staple the nAAtives system wide. It was the legal duty of the TWU TO PROTECT THE NAATIVES against a potential TWA onslaught.

You blame the TWU for screwing the TWAers. Yet, if the TWU would have agreed to give them DOH system wide (without a fight), thus stapling the nAAtives; you would be on here raising hell and charging the TWU with screwing the nAAtives by not performing it's fiduciary responsibility of protecting it's members . As far as your concerned, the TWU can do NOTHING right.

I have to say you got one thing right, the TWU and Members are indeed two seperate groups within the TWU.

However, I always the MEMBERS were the UNION. That is why the TWU will indeed be blamed for everything. When an organization alienates the membership and has dictator control, who else would be to blame?

And for your information, I was one of the few that clearly voiced an opinion in favor integration of seniority. It was always my belief that dovetail along with negotiating our pension benefit for the TWA'ers, combined with shutting down MCI would have been by far better than what took place, and that goes for both company and the union would have been better off. So you can dispense with believing I would be raising any hell about treating other union men fairly when it comes to mergers or acquisitions.

Why did the AirCal's get DOH if the TWU has legal duty to protect the members?

Raptor, you are wrong about doing at least as much as I did in the last drive, and you also wrong about comparing support for a profession with a decent standard of living to a cult. One thing I am sure you have me beat in though, and that is the amount of prescription medication within the first 40 years of life. I wont be there standing for you when you cross the picket line, I will be the guy that comes for you when nobody is looking. I think that I will leave it at that to insure you don't run to HR on Monday. Since your name is McCoy, I don't mind if you look at me as a Hatfield.

 

[aafsc]

<_< ----- No Raptor! I'm talking an "Across the board" raise, PLUS a COLA! And a 5-6 year contract? No way! A three year contract max! this is a changing industry. We need the economic flexablity to survive!

Big talk coming from someone who agreed to work for a failed airline that paid among the lowest wages along with loss of pension. If you "survived" with TWA rates, surely you can "survive" at current AA rates.

 

[TWU informer]

Big talk coming from someone who agreed to work for a failed airline that paid among the lowest wages along with loss of pension. If you "survived" with TWA rates, surely you can "survive" at current AA rates.

One can "survive" on welfare and food stamps without any medical insurance.

This isn't just about survival, it is about a profession not becoming another middle class slam dunk for the rich men of the world. Of course being a baggage handler, I doubt you know anything about that.

 

[aafsc]

One can "survive" on welfare and food stamps without any medical insurance.

This isn't just about survival, it is about a profession not becoming another middle class slam dunk for the rich men of the world. Of course being a baggage handler, I doubt you know anything about that.

It was MCITransplant who used the word "survive". It was also he and his fellow AMT TWAers that agreed to work for Southwest ramp rates while at TWA; just like the AMFA signed contract at NW where the AMFA represented AMTs get only a couple of dollars more per hour than a TWU represented Southwest ramp rat. Why didn't MCI and his fellow AMTs at TWA shut it down years ago instead of working for crap?

 

[Raptor]

I have to say you got one thing right, the TWU and Members are indeed two seperate groups within the TWU.

However, I always the MEMBERS were the UNION. That is why the TWU will indeed be blamed for everything. When an organization alienates the membership and has dictator control, who else would be to blame?

And for your information, I was one of the few that clearly voiced an opinion in favor integration of seniority. It was always my belief that dovetail along with negotiating our pension benefit for the TWA'ers, combined with shutting down MCI would have been by far better than what took place, and that goes for both company and the union would have been better off. So you can dispense with believing I would be raising any hell about treating other union men fairly when it comes to mergers or acquisitions.

Why did the AirCal's get DOH if the TWU has legal duty to protect the members?

Raptor, you are wrong about doing at least as much as I did in the last drive, and you also wrong about comparing support for a profession with a decent standard of living to a cult. One thing I am sure you have me beat in though, and that is the amount of prescription medication within the first 40 years of life. I wont be there standing for you when you cross the picket line, I will be the guy that comes for you when nobody is looking. I think that I will leave it at that to insure you don't run to HR on Monday. Since your name is McCoy, I don't mind if you look at me as a Hatfield.

Definition of Ambush: I will be the guy that comes for you when nobody is looking.
Not the most bravest or honorable way to get a guy but if that is all that works for you then
Come for my Dave you know where I work. probably even where I live.

Listen Dave Stewart do you remember this http://members.cox.net/mechanic45/
next to the concession this report in my Opinion was the single most motivating factor for Employee's to sign AMFA cards this report was my idea and I did ALL the reseach on my own to make it, this report was probably seen by more people than any other document during the AMFA drive, it was of course on your website and many others, as well as TWU 567 website chuck was President at the time it was on this bulletin board countless times, we handed out thousands of them at the Turnstiles, it was displayed EVERYWHERE at the Tulsa base, every single local had thousands of them and it was brought up at the AMFA information meeting when Delle came down, by the TWU big dogs because they were very concerned at how many people were signing cards because of it.
I believe we even made a tshirt displaying it.

How many of you used this Document to get cards signed ?

You can thank me for it and your welcome.

How come you did not come up with this extremely motivating document Dave ?
This is just ONE single contribution I made among many to the Drive but once again why list them all, it is part of the past, hell you didn't even want to do banner duty, several of us said we were going to do it anyway wether you came or not, although you did show up not wanting to be left out.

and dude you couldn't make it as a Hatfield those guys were damn tough as were the McCoys

 

[aafsc]

I have to say you got one thing right, the TWU and Members are indeed two seperate groups within the TWU.

However, I always the MEMBERS were the UNION. That is why the TWU will indeed be blamed for everything. When an organization alienates the membership and has dictator control, who else would be to blame?

And for your information, I was one of the few that clearly voiced an opinion in favor integration of seniority. It was always my belief that dovetail along with negotiating our pension benefit for the TWA'ers, combined with shutting down MCI would have been by far better than what took place, and that goes for both company and the union would have been better off. So you can dispense with believing I would be raising any hell about treating other union men fairly when it comes to mergers or acquisitions.

Why did the AirCal's get DOH if the TWU has legal duty to protect the members?

Raptor, you are wrong about doing at least as much as I did in the last drive, and you also wrong about comparing support for a profession with a decent standard of living to a cult. One thing I am sure you have me beat in though, and that is the amount of prescription medication within the first 40 years of life. I wont be there standing for you when you cross the picket line, I will be the guy that comes for you when nobody is looking. I think that I will leave it at that to insure you don't run to HR on Monday. Since your name is McCoy, I don't mind if you look at me as a Hatfield.

IIRC, AirCal was also TWU. As for TWA, they lost their Allegheny-Mowhawk protections in their final bankruptcy. Since the TWU decided to go to binding arbitration, they essentially got their protections back. Their problem is they don't like how the arbitrator ruled; they wanted it all. Giving them DOH was your opinion, and your entitled to it. However, most nAAtives feel the opposite.

 

[Raptor]

I am thinking about updating the Mechanic pay and benefit chart, no doubt it would be interesting, I
would ask for help but for some reason I think everyone would rather argue than actually
accomplish something usefull, so most likely I will end up sifting through the endless Airline contracts
on my own but that is ok someone needs to do it.

I will try to do it as time permits.

This one is about 4 years old. http://members.cox.net/mechanic45/
It is not Current.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----- aa, your talking out your backside again!! You have no idea as to our motives for staying with TWA, and frankly I don't feel any obligation to explain myself, or my fellow exTWA colleagues, to the likes of you! It seems your the one hung up in the past, not me. I asked the man a hypothetical question about what might happen in the future. He gave me an honest answer! You have a problem with that? It's horses backsides like yourself that make working for this Airline a pain in the butt sometime! I had pride in working for TWA! I can't say the same for AA! :down:

 

[aafsc]

No explanation needed, your reasons for never ending concessions at TWA are quite clear; to keep it alive long enough to enter into a transaction with another airline, obtain a very large gain in compensation that the purchaser's workforce fought for, and staple the purchaser's employees beneath you (which, unfortunately for you and fortunately for us, didn't happen). Why didn't you at least demand pay parity with the others while at TWA? Most everything that the TWAers post here originates from the hind end of a horse. As for the future, who knows; I don't think AA will participate in the next round of consolidation. No pride in AA? I've got an idea, why don't we get AA management to rename the MCI base "TWA aircraft maintenance" (AA still owns the TWA name). The can take that "AA" off the side of the building and replace it with "TWA". And to make it really feel "TWA" your compensation levels can revert to what they were at TWA. Your whining is pathetic; because of AA you are the highest paid (and one of the few remaining)overhaul aircraft mechanics in the United States.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< -----You know something aa? I really don't give a rat's behind what you think!!!!