Bottom Line

[Raptor]

<_< ------ I hate to breack your booble Raptor, but just because you retire doesn't mean it'll be there for you for the rest of your life! They can terminate it a day after you receive your first check, and that check would be worthless! Or ten years! In other words, they can sink that boat, with you on it, at any time! That's unless----- You have someone (UNION) watching out for you!

From the way I understand it, once you retire even if the company files bankruptcy and the Pension goes to the PBGC if you are already retired you will continue to get what you were getting before they filed, so once I make it on the retirement boat the Government will keep it a float for me, and it won't matter much what happens to AA or the TWU at that point.

That is my understanding of the situation, hopefully that is correct, but even if it is not, all I can do is leave at 55 and hope for the best, because I really have no interest in continuing to work for AA or being in a Union after that age.

As far as Money goes I have no car payment and my house will be paid off in the not to distant future and that will be an instant $900 dollars a month pay raise for me, not that I need it but it will still be nice. I just have to make it through two more 5 year contracts and I am free and clear MCI Transplant. Wish me luck

 

[AMFAMAN]

From the way I understand it, once you retire even if the company files bankruptcy and the Pension goes to the PBGC if you are already retired you will continue to get what you were getting before they filed, so once I make it on the retirement boat the Government will keep it a float for me, and it won't matter much what happens to AA or the TWU at that point.

Wrong...you can't make more than than PBGC retirement if the pension fund was turned over to them, which BTW is based on age 65 as retirement age, not 60. You would think for someone who is living in fear as you do, you would at least know the rules.

 

[MCI transplant]

Wrong...you can't make more than than PBGC retirement if the pension fund was turned over to them, which BTW is based on age 65 as retirement age, not 60. You would think for someone who is living in fear as you do, you would at least know the rules.

<_< ------ And, depending on how much that retirement is, you could end up with pennies on a dallor with the PBGC! Take it from someone who knows!

 

[Raptor]

Wrong...you can't make more than than PBGC retirement if the pension fund was turned over to them, which BTW is based on age 65 as retirement age, not 60. You would think for someone who is living in fear as you do, you would at least know the rules.

I think I do know the rules, my retirement would not be more than the PBGC pays it would be less and the 60 or 65 age rule does not apply to someone who is already retired, only someone who has not yet retired.

http://www.pbgc.gov/workers-retirees/benef.../page13181.html
What PBGC guaranteesPBGC guarantees "basic benefits" earned before your plan ended, which include:

Pension benefits at normal retirement age
Most early retirement benefits
Annuity benefits for survivors of plan participants
Disability benefits for disabilities that occurred before the date the plan ended

Q. What is the maximum amount that PBGC can guarantee?

A. PBGC's maximum benefit guarantee is set each year under provisions of ERISA. For pension plans ending in 2007, the maximum guaranteed amount is $4,125.00 per month ($49,500.00 per year)

That is a hell of alot more than my pension will be.


I know about the pennies on the dollar thing but AA so far is fairly caught up on it payments.

I'm getting out in 10 years boys and I am going to stay happy no matter how hard you try to depress me so get use to the idea.

My NRA final notice renewal just arrived, I have been with them for 25 years, I think I am going to tell them I am ready to pass the torch to someone else maybe one of you guys. :unsure: I am not going to renew.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Raptor,

"so why would I want to put my future at risk that to me is not logical, look what happened to you.
you are not a head you are way behind.
I just want to retire from the game and the fighting and let you guys keep fighting it out if that is what you want."

I missjudged you. I thought that when you enter a fight to protect a craft you decided to spend time, money & energy in that you would not quit after losing a one battle. The war is not lost. There are others who understand what honor means. No slam here. Just pointing out your own posts to you. You claim that you are fine with what you make now and look to "getting out" soon.

What if union men felt that way before you were born? Or how about before you entered the craft you spent time, money & energy entering?

"Once again relax everything will be fine. For me."

This is one comment that will forever brand you as a selfish individual. Do you not care about others in your craft at AA, let alone outside of AA? Do you understand the meaning of unity? Your posts smell to high Heaven of cowardice. I am not calling you a coward, you are calling yourself one in the many posts you make here. You will fight but passively?

I will not relax. Not because you will be fine but because that is what you do when you are disrespected, lied to and spit on.

 

[Raptor]

Raptor,

"so why would I want to put my future at risk that to me is not logical, look what happened to you.
you are not a head you are way behind.

That depends on how you look at it Ken, I certainly feel a head of the people and groups I mentioned In my last post.

I missjudged you. I thought that when you enter a fight to protect a craft you decided to spend time, money & energy in that you would not quit after losing a one battle. The war is not lost. There are others who understand what honor means. No slam here. Just pointing out your own posts to you. You claim that you are fine with what you make now and look to "getting out" soon..

Ken I did not enter the AMFA fight for the purpose of protecting my craft or because I particularly like Unions or for anyone else's future, I entered the fight because at the time I felt like it was in My best interest to do so, basically I was pissed about the concession. but I got over it.
Honor has nothing to do with fighting for something that you don't care about, so that someone else can be happy, I am not fighting because I do not care about the things that some of you care about.

What if union men felt that way before you were born? Or how about before you entered the craft you spent time, money & energy entering? ..

I would have been fine with it if they did, I am not a Union man, I am actually for right to work, when I hired on at AA I did not know or care anything about Unions, I never even swore in when they asked me too.
For the first 2 years I was with AA I barely even knew the Union existed.
I think Unions are fine for the people who like them and want to be in one but they are not for everyone.

This is one comment that will forever brand you as a selfish individual. Do you not care about others in your craft at AA, let alone outside of AA? Do you understand the meaning of unity? Your posts smell to high Heaven of cowardice. I am not calling you a coward, you are calling yourself one in the many posts you make here. You will fight but passively? ..

Sorry Ken but no I don't care, I am selfish, I do understand the meaning of Unity, I just don't like it.
I don't mind helping someone I Like out if it does not cause me problems in the process and I do that all the time, but I will not put myself at risk for someone else's happiness, and I believe I am part of the Majority on that, Unions are quickly dieing and that is probably the biggest reason, if they do die then that is what the Majority wanted to happen.
Once again I am not afraid or a coward I just don't care about the same things that some of you care about nor am I unhappy with my $31.00 and hour or my 6 weeks of vacation etc.
Did you invest in AA stock before the concession ? if not why not were you a coward ?
( you would have made alot of money if you had taken the chance. )
Did you invest in Northwest stock when the oppertunity presented itself ? If not why not were you afraid.
you get my point just because someone does not want to do something does not mean they are afraid, more times than not it is because it is not important enough to them to put the effort into it or take the risk.
I understand Aviation is important to you and the Mechanic profession is important to you, I know you have the charles taylor thing going and all but these things are not important to all of us, I have different interests and priorities than you, I think the other Employee's that do not want to fight are mostly choosing not to fight for the same reason as me not fear but because they have different priorities in their life and they are content/happy.

I really don't understand why that is so hard for some of you to understand. :unsure:

People pick their battles, I am getting ready to fight one hell of a battle against a lady who stole $12,000 dollars from our Non-Profit Neighborhood swimming Pool when I was on the Board of Directors, I am fighting to get her prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law because that is important to me, do you want to help me in this fight. ? probably not, are you scared of her or do you not care about saving my Pool ?
If we do not get our money back from her our Pool will probably go away forever and it has been here for over 30 years.

There are a whole lot of people out there not working at AA or making the kind of money we do that think we are a bunch of spoiled brats, when I run into those people I make sure to tell them that not all of us are spoiled brats some of us are quite content with our generous pay and benefits.

I will not relax. Not because you will be fine but because that is what you do when you are disrespected, lied to and spit on.

I think that is fine Ken if you have the fire in you, then you should run with it, I never said you shouldn't fight your battles.
I was merely talking about what is right for me. you should try to understand that.
I did agree that Line guys should get a COLA that is more than many guys at my station would agree to. :unsure:

If you really want to make a difference you should move to Tulsa because it is my perception that there are a whole lot less unhappy guys that want to fight than where you live and they could use a fired up leader/mad guy like yourself to lead them, there seems to be a shortage of that type down here.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Raptor,

Just a (curious) question.

If(hypothetically) the AMT contract did,nt "GO AA's way"(due squarely to the Action of the TUL AMT's), and they Decimated TUL/AFW, and then, the only place your occ. seniority could hold was JFK............., would you;
1. Fly into Kennedy ?
2. Drive to Kennedy ?
or
3. Start your own swimming pool co., in OKIE-Homa ?

 

[limit]

Back in the Cretaceous it was survival of the fittest.
Now its survival of the most accommodating.

"VilociRaptors are not timid they are predators????????"

"Velociraptors" definitely were.

Vilociraptors I could not find.

Until you came along.

 

[Raptor]

Raptor,

Just a (curious) question.

If(hypothetically) the AMT contract did,nt "GO AA's way"(due squarely to the Action of the TUL AMT's), and they Decimated TUL/AFW, and then, the only place your occ. seniority could hold was JFK............., would you;
1. Fly into Kennedy ?
2. Drive to Kennedy ?
or
3. Start your own swimming pool co., in OKIE-Homa ?

Good question

If the Tulsa station no longer existed and I had the option of going to JFK and keeping on track with my retirement, as much as it would hurt I would have to resign from AA and seek another job here in Tulsa,
I don't know what it would be but, I have no doubt that I could not survive in New York even if I could afford to, it is way to crowded and busy for me, not to mention all the Democrats and gun control, I would be completly miserable there, I require wide open spaces and as few people as possible which is what I currently have.

Resigning of course would mean that my dream of retiring at 55 would not be possible, but at least I would live where I am happy and could keep my son.
The JFK guys have nothing to fear from me bumping them, hell I can't even watch movies based in New York, I get sick.
Ever see the commercial about the pecantee sauce from New York, where the Texans go for a rope.

On a different subject A guy in my shop a couple of days ago started getting excited about going to the last Union meeting to elect different election committee people because many people down here think our Executive Board elections are rigged since the same people keep getting elected over and over again.
He was running around my shop asking others to join him and go vote at the Union meeting he got to almost everyone in the shop and no one was interested in trying to make a difference in the end instead of him going and voting by himself he decided not to go as well, I did hammer on him as to why he needed someone else to help him in his agenda when he had the power to do his part all by himself.
150 people out of 7,000 showed up to make a difference in the election committee vote.
Apathy pure and simple.

After the vote only one election committee member changed not enough to make a difference in the next election.

AA knows that the Majority are selfish that is why they target them in every negotiation, remember the different wage scales where new guys got hosed ? How about the OSM Mechanic doing the same work as A&P but getting paid much less, etc. It's every man for himself ( always has been )

 

[Raptor]

Back in the Cretaceous it was survival of the fittest.
Now its survival of the most accommodating.

"VilociRaptors are not timid they are predators????????"

"Velociraptors" definitely were.

Vilociraptors I could not find.

Until you came along.

Thanks for the spelling correction

I adopted that Avatar back when I first joined the forum during the AMFA drive in 2003 I was all fired up back then, fighting the TWU, AA and Apathy all at the same time , since then I have mostly given up hunting prey I am old tired and lazy these days.
I still pick my fights but I am more descriminate about them than I use to be, that trend will most likely continue as I age.

You are correct survival of the most accommodating. <_<

 

[Raptor]

Raptor,

Just a (curious) question.

If(hypothetically) the AMT contract did,nt "GO AA's way"(due squarely to the Action of the TUL AMT's), and they Decimated TUL/AFW, and then, the only place your occ. seniority could hold was JFK............., would you;
1. Fly into Kennedy ?
2. Drive to Kennedy ?
or
3. Start your own swimming pool co., in OKIE-Homa ?

New Hamshire I would be very surprised if ANY native oklahoman would move to New York to keep their job, I would be willing to relocate to MCI ( Kansas ) or AFW/DFW ( Texas ) as those states are not that much different than Oklahoma.

Most people I know here at AA live spread out in the country away from the masses, not that Tulsa is crowded at all it's not.

great link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8xalfOKGn4

 

[AMFAMAN]

Once again I am not afraid or a coward I just don't care about the same things that some of you care about nor am I unhappy with my $31.00 and hour or my 6 weeks of vacation etc.

6 weeks vacation at age 45, are you in managment or did you start when you were 15? Or are we doing some Okie math where you buy a week and get forced off a week at Christmas and consider those 2 unpaid weeks a vacation?

 

[Raptor]

6 weeks vacation at age 45, are you in managment or did you start when you were 15? Or are we doing some Okie math where you buy a week and get forced off a week at Christmas and consider those 2 unpaid weeks a vacation?

Sorry my mistake it is 5 weeks 4 for 20 years and then I buy a flex week making it 5 weeks.
I forgot about losing a week in the concession.
I think we get another week at 25 years which will be 4 years from now for me then I will have 6 weeks
total.
I do not count the christmas week because I do not like taking off at christmas so I usually work but since we can take it off without pay I guess you could count that week if you wanted to

I don't really care about wether I pay for the week or not, I just want to have the extra time off.
Money is not a problem for me.

A vacation to me is time away from AA paid or unpaid.

AMFAMAN have you ever thought about investing in the stock market ? If you really like risk that would be a great way for you to make extra money, I am thinking some of the other guys on this board that like risk should be interested in that as well. Ken how about yourself you like risk.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------ Well, if no one else will say it, I well!------- Raptor, what is the title of this thread? I believe it says "Bottom line, no B.S."! Well it seems that's all you've been puting out! :down:

 

[TWU informer]

<_< ------ Well, if no one else will say it, I well!------- Raptor, what is the title of this thread? I believe it says "Bottom line, no B.S."! Well it seems that's all you've been puting out! :down:

I like how he forgets about vacation losses in the concession, while he now has to BUY a week out of his paycheck, but apparently considers that good. Money is not a problem for him, yet he was all upset about the concessios, but got over it.

The guy keeps claiming he was involved in fighting for AMFA. The best I can recall he never attended a single organizers meeting, was not involved in the lawsuit against AA, and I believe I only saw him at one informational meeting. I do know he got a few cards signed and turned them in, but I never witnessed him "fighting" for anything related to AMFA. I have however heard of him fighting with his co-workers on more than one occasion. So not only is he obviously completely ignorant regarding our current contract, he also likes to enhance with fictitious additions, his stories to make himself feel good and feel important.

You can read it for yourself, the man is anti-union and I have no doubt that if there were a strike at AA, we would all be calling him scab instead of Raptor.

Raptor:

I don't really care about wether I pay for the week or not, I just want to have the extra time off.
Money is not a problem for me.

Well then why dont you go buy 52 weeks off without pay per year, go fondle yourself since the love of self is far more important to you than our well being or that of future AMT's? That would leave us with one less anti-union potential scab that will no doubt vote yes on the next concession.

Footnote:

This brings out a major flaw, one that many in the world also have. He believes that the end justifies the means. He is willing to set aside principle (if he had any) to achieve his goals. He functions by self-interest rather than by belief or standards. His standards are "anything that is good for Raptor," which is self-righteousness and self-interest. These are the principles by which he feels he should live his life to be successful. He does not base them on anything godly or even ethical but strictly on human reason.

He is willing to do anything to get his way. By comparing together different parts of the Bible on folks like him of the past, Raptor will come out smelling like manure, not roses.

A few suggestions for us all to think about:

1. Be nice to people and give help to someone who requires it. Remember by helping others you are also helping yourself in the long run.

2. Doing a true act of unselfishness usually brings happiness to the giver because happiness is about giving rather than receiving. Happiness it is not about how much money you have in the bank but the level of selfishness that you have. The more selfishness the less happiness – perfect inverse proportion.

3. Be honest to others and to yourself, and if you need to ask somebody for some favor do one in return.

4. Put others before you, especially your family, friends, and co-workers. Find out about their needs and wants and then think of your selfish ones.

5. Be considerate to people you know and to strangers. Remember a good deed never goes waste.