Bottom Line

[Raptor]

<_< ------- Raptor, How does a Company with the kind of money AA has on hand go into bankruptcy? Remember that both Northworst, and Us Air rushed into court on the same day. Just before the new Bankruptcy Laws took effect. They did this for a reason! The new laws arn't as Corporate friendly as before, and take a lot of Control out of managements hands! Something I don't think Our-Pay and Co. would tolerate! So, I feel a treat of Bankruptcy should not be taken as seriously!-------As for how I feel about some sort of COLA in high expense areas, remember,------- I did say I came from a line background!----- All this is nothing new! TWA paid their people in HNL a COLA years ago!!! If the IAM could work it out, why not the TWU?

Ya I think a cola would be fine, the Overhaul stations would have to sell it to their Members but if they tried I don't think they would have to much trouble doing it, I do agree the chance of Bankruptcy due to the new laws is less than before but it is still not out of the question.

I really think everything will work out fine, not everyone will be happy of course but that is always the case.
Line stations should really push the COLA cause I don't think AA will give everyone a huge raise, since they have to compete with the other companies, but they could probably be convinced to give the line guys a COLA and the rest of us a small raise.
That would certainly work for me.

 

[MCI transplant]

Ya I think a cola would be fine, the Overhaul stations would have to sell it to their Members but if they tried I don't think they would have to much trouble doing it, I do agree the chance of Bankruptcy due to the new laws is less than before but it is still not out of the question.

I really think everything will work out fine, not everyone will be happy of course but that is always the case.
Line stations should really push the COLA cause I don't think AA will give everyone a huge raise, since they have to compete with the other companies, but they could probably be convinced to give the line guys a COLA and the rest of us a small raise.
That would certainly work for me.

<_< ------ Sorry Raptor! But I don't buy into AA can't give everyone a decent raise to keep competitive thing! They blow that excuse when they gave themselves a hefty bonus! AA should not expect us to shoulder the total burden to keep competitive! As for a COLA, it would have to be predicated on the economic conditions of each individual City. Some sort of formula would have to be worked out, and given only as a way to level the playing Field between cities and bases! In other words, a "Base Pay" should be established, and a percentage of that given as a COLA.-------Can this work? I don't know! What do you think?

 

[FWAAA]

<_< ------- Raptor, How does a Company with the kind of money AA has on hand go into bankruptcy? Remember that both Northworst, and Us Air rushed into court on the same day. Just before the new Bankruptcy Laws took effect. They did this for a reason! The new laws arn't as Corporate friendly as before, and take a lot of Control out of managements hands! Something I don't think Our-Pay and Co. would tolerate! So, I feel a treat of Bankruptcy should not be taken as seriously!-------As for how I feel about some sort of COLA in high expense areas, remember,------- I did say I came from a line background!----- All this is nothing new! TWA paid their people in HNL a COLA years ago!!! If the IAM could work it out, why not the TWU?

MCI, you are correct. There's no bankruptcy on the horizon like there was in early 2003. AMR has $4 billion more of unrestricted cash now than then, and has paid off a fair amount of debt in the past 18 months. Management won't threaten bankruptcy this time around - if your idiot union leaders do, well, they ARE idiots after all.

As for raises, my prediction is 3% to 5% up front, 2% to 3% each year for 5 or 6 years.

BTW, you were thinking of DELTA and Northwest who entered Ch 11 on the same day in Sept 2005. B)

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

MCI, you are correct. There's no bankruptcy on the horizon like there was in early 2003. AMR has $4 billion more of unrestricted cash now than then, and has paid off a fair amount of debt in the past 18 months. Management won't threaten bankruptcy this time around - if your idiot union leaders do, well, they ARE idiots after all.

As for raises, my prediction is 3% to 5% up front, 2% to 3% each year for 5 or 6 years.

BTW, you were thinking of DELTA and Northwest who entered Ch 11 on the same day in Sept 2005. B)

You are both incorrect... Just because you have 4 billion in cash doesn't mean squat... So does everyone else, and remember how you say we are in dire straits and going to be chopped up??? 4billion in cash and nearly 17 billion in debt (16.6 to be exact) doesnt paint a rosy picture... Especially when you are wanting to increase costs even more, by pay raises among three work groups... Your debt load is VERY high and if your labor costs increase along with fuel (which fuel is going up more and more) you will not be able to sustain down swings, you will post losses, so your fight will be a tough one, I hope you win it, but not likely, you are at a competitive disadvantage now, simply b/c you didn't follow the trend and file BK, and if you do, it will be Much harder to restructure and come out concerning the new laws. I don't think you get the big pic.. unfortunately, I guess you will find out at the bargaining table,.,., but I will love to see what these pilots have to say with a 3% - 5% increase LOL, far cry from the nearly 505 they want.. LOL ... You go you tough doggies you,, Raise that bar, set the new standard, we have lowered it, now you raise it with that 3% LOL, you are just tooooo much... SAD

 

[FWAAA]

Uhh, the adults are having a conversation about money and finances and other difficult (for you at least) subjects.

Perhaps your time would be better spent at www.notsogoodatmath.com?

 

[AMFAMAN]

As for raises, my prediction is 3% to 5% up front, 2% to 3% each year for 5 or 6 years.

What are you smoking, the twu couldn't get that during the best of times... <_<

 

[FWAAA]

What are you smoking, the twu couldn't get that during the best of times... <_<

Oh - I was thinking of the pilots and the FAs, not the mechanics and fleet.

Seriously - you guys need to replace that worthless union of yours. Yesterday.

 

[Raptor]

<_< ------ Sorry Raptor! But I don't buy into AA can't give everyone a decent raise to keep competitive thing! They blow that excuse when they gave themselves a hefty bonus! AA should not expect us to shoulder the total burden to keep competitive! As for a COLA, it would have to be predicated on the economic conditions of each individual City. Some sort of formula would have to be worked out, and given only as a way to level the playing Field between cities and bases! In other words, a "Base Pay" should be established, and a percentage of that given as a COLA.-------Can this work? I don't know! What do you think?

Sure I think it could work out just fine, there are ways to calculate cost of living for individual cities, if the Presidents could agree on it then sell it to their Members, I am sure AA would not have a problem with it, since that would be cheaper than giving everyone a big raise, I am thinking $1 per hour more up front to the 3 Overhauls and maybe up to $6 per houre depending on station, to the line stations, .50 raise every year and hopefully a 5 or 6 year contract, ( I like long contracts myself ) plus get rid of the half sick time thing, give us a couple of more holidays and maybe a week of vacation back.
I am not saying that is what the TWU will shoot for but merely that is probably pretty close to where we will end up.
which will be fine with me, I will take what I can get.

This of course would put us at the top compared to the 4 Airlines we actually compete head to head with, Northwest, Continental, United, Delta, we would have better pay and benefits then these 4 plus we still have our extremely expensive Pension, the above guess is liberal since we have never actually been on top we are generally in the middle, so it will be interesting to see if AA is actually willing to let us be on top. The reason I know this is I was the one who did the Airline Pay & Benefits comparison chart for AMFA during the 2003 drive and I kept up with ALL the contracts for a while, even after Bankruptcy.

I doubt very seriously we will see more than that, but who knows sometimes miracles do happen.

Line stations would be well advised to start screaming COLA instead of a general across the board raise to everyone, because in an across the board raise, I think they would lose again, big time. just as in the past.

 

[Ed Norton]

I think it's appropiate based on many of your prior comments to have a dinosaur whose head bobs up and down.

Ouch! Watch the teeth, honey..........

 

[Raptor]

Ouch! Watch the teeth, honey..........

Sure no problem.

funny guy

 

[MCI transplant]

Sure I think it could work out just fine, there are ways to calculate cost of living for individual cities, if the Presidents could agree on it then sell it to their Members, I am sure AA would not have a problem with it, since that would be cheaper than giving everyone a big raise, I am thinking $1 per hour more up front to the 3 Overhauls and maybe up to $6 per houre depending on station, to the line stations, .50 raise every year and hopefully a 5 or 6 year contract, ( I like long contracts myself ) plus get rid of the half sick time thing, give us a couple of more holidays and maybe a week of vacation back.
I am not saying that is what the TWU will shoot for but merely that is probably pretty close to where we will end up.
which will be fine with me, I will take what I can get.

This of course would put us at the top compared to the 4 Airlines we actually compete head to head with, Northwest, Continental, United, Delta, we would have better pay and benefits then these 4 plus we still have our extremely expensive Pension, the above guess is liberal since we have never actually been on top we are generally in the middle, so it will be interesting to see if AA is actually willing to let us be on top. The reason I know this is I was the one who did the Airline Pay & Benefits comparison chart for AMFA during the 2003 drive and I kept up with ALL the contracts for a while, even after Bankruptcy.

I doubt very seriously we will see more than that, but who knows sometimes miracles do happen.

Line stations would be well advised to start screaming COLA instead of a general across the board raise to everyone, because in an across the board raise, I think they would lose again, big time. just as in the past.

<_< ----- No Raptor! I'm talking an "Across the board" raise, PLUS a COLA! And a 5-6 year contract? No way! A three year contract max! this is a changing industry. We need the economic flexablity to survive!

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

<_< ----- No Raptor! I'm talking an "Across the board" raise, PLUS a COLA! And a 5-6 year contract? No way! A three year contract max! this is a changing industry. We need the economic flexablity to survive!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MCI,
NO disrespect meant from me to you, but for reasons that YOU made clear to ME( in another post, as it pertains to MCIE), I believe that you KCI guys will NOT risk pissing off HDQ :unsure:

 

[AMFAMAN]

<_< -----And a 5-6 year contract? No way! A three year contract max! this is a changing industry. We need the economic flexablity to survive!

Welcome to the twu MCI Transplant, where we only negotiate 5 or 6 year deals, and always with some sort of concession, unless of course AMFA is able to secure an industry leading deal--then the company will propose matching it. <_<

 

[MCI transplant]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MCI,
NO disrespect meant from me to you, but for reasons that YOU made clear to ME( in another post, as it pertains to MCIE), I believe that you KCI guys will NOT risk pissing off HDQ :unsure:

<_< ------ Bears, As I've stated I don't speak for all of MCIE, but in all things, circumstances change! I get a feeling of more confidence here at MCI. I believe that most people here now believe we're here to stay. In fact we are be getting more of the work that AFW either don't want, or can't handle! The perception here is that AA's upper management is finally appreciating the flexibility of our work force! Not only are we finishing up the 767-300 Cabin mods, with the 200's next. We are doing 767 Pylon mods, and two lines of 757 winglets also. We are to do the 767 winglet prototype also. The Restoration of the base is also coming along quit well! So----- We will see!

 

[local 12 proud]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MCI,
NO disrespect meant from me to you, but for reasons that YOU made clear to ME( in another post, as it pertains to MCIE), I believe that you KCI guys will NOT risk pissing off HDQ :unsure:

Well with one foot in the grave what would you do?

Im in a joking mood tonight, no offense intended MCI!