AWA MEC Chairman's Special Update

[USA320Pilot]

Rico,

Your post is well written and accurate. All emotion aside, I believe the West pilots are going to hurt them self if there is an agreement struck that provides for separate contracts or a joint contract and separate operations.

The Company has let the East MEC know that they want to move forward and get a deal, which is why they're going to hold discussions with the EAST MEC about a new separate or joint contract.

According to the PHL Reps. "The company is now anxious to clean up their 'labor balance sheet' in order to give them more flexibility in the M&A arena and it may provide some early opportunities for us." In addition, the company wants to strike a deal on the A340, even though the A340 already has an East pay rate and is currently permitted to be flown under the East contract.

I agree that the AWA pilots will be hurt with a separate contract - separate operation and I agree with PHL Capt. Rep. Eric Rowe's comments when he said, "First, to those of you who will be around for a while, say 50ish or so and younger guys, you are entitled, in my opinion, to what your expectations were at the announcement of the merger; a bigger stronger airline with the capacity for more synergies, profitability, and opportunities created by the implementation of a list which is consistent with the tenants of ALPA Merger Policy. Secondly, The AWA guys will never find another potential inheritance the magnitude of what has recently been before them. There will never be another arbitration boondoggle like this on the short term ALPA horizon. You can bet on that! Nicolau will not happen again real soon. This old fart has cost the company and the Association a bunch! The AWA guys will never find another deal in which, even if they were stapled, would they inherit so much so soon."

Regards,

USA320Pilot

P.S. Another day without having to read 700UW's posts!

 

[700UW]

Does US still drug test pilots?

 

[SegmentKing]

you have to be on drugs to work here!

 

[Hawkhunter]

Do you realize how desperate you sound?

You are the one who sounds desperate. Is it that time of the month again already?

 

[Rico]

That's a rather self-serving statement from you, and maybe not in the best interest of all.

You are one of the CEL guys that got added to bottom of the list, aren't you?

And you are one of the bitter Piedmont Pilots that are still mad about being left behind by your past choices... And thus feel sympathetic to the AWA pilots being left behind by a cheaper US Airways-East





No, I am one of the many furloughed AAA pilots that decided not to return to US Airways, ever.

So it is not "self serving", it is only an assessment that IMO the East pilots would be better off in the long run to create a huge "fence" of their own (by staying apart), and retain all of the important international and widebody growth for themselves. That growth IMO would more than offset the short term losses from their BK imposed contract.

Call me silly, but I just feel a guy that has put in 15+ years deserves to get that flying before any kid that has only put in 2... If keeping things separate is the only way to accomplish that, then so be it.

 

[exB717Flyer]

You guys may force the list, a joint contract and joint operation down out throats by the end of the year, but I doubt it.

We can't force anything. An new CBA has to be voted in.

I think there could be a better way out of this for all of us, but I think everyone would rather stick out their chests and piss on each others shoes.

I disagree since this implies that there's a dispute with two sides. In fact, it's a dispute with only one side: the East. The West isn't disputing anything; we're only trying to uphold ALPA Policy. Your side is challenging it and threatening to decert if the ALPA body doesn't accede to your demands. I believe the West holds the high ground on this and that's why we're not giving in to the East's demands. You want our side to negotiate fences and/or other protections while you hold a gun to our head. When we resist you say we're refusing to do that which would help ourselves. Sort of like paying "protection" money to Guido so our shop doesn't get tossed-up.

 

[ClueByFour]

The Company has let the East MEC know that they want to move forward and get a deal, which is why they're going to hold discussions with the EAST MEC about a new separate or joint contract.

Was that before or after the company said in a quasi-public forum that the East won't be getting parity?

 

[USA320Pilot]

The Company prefers to negotiate a joint contract or a separate contract, whiCh is better for the East pilots because it is comprehensive and can create permanent fences with separate operations.

Furthermore, John Prater has been in discussion with Doug Parker about this option, which is a key recommendation of the Rice Committee!

The majority of the East pilots are for this too and are willing to wait a little longer to get a pay raise if it means fixing the problems of the Nicolau Award!

Meanwhile, a new East Permanent System Bid will be released soon by Resource Planning, which will have many upgrades and advancements from Group II to Group 1 aircraft, Group 1 to A330 aircraft, Reserves to becoming Blockholders, and First Officers becoming Captains again. All of these pilots will obtain pay raises and/or schedule improvements due to the significant East pilot group attrition!

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Pi brat]

We can't force anything. An new CBA has to be voted in.I disagree since this implies that there's a dispute with two sides. In fact, it's a dispute with only one side: the East. The West isn't disputing anything; we're only trying to uphold ALPA Policy. Your side is challenging it and threatening to decert if the ALPA body doesn't accede to your demands. I believe the West holds the high ground on this and that's why we're not giving in to the East's demands. You want our side to negotiate fences and/or other protections while you hold a gun to our head. When we resist you say we're refusing to do that which would help ourselves. Sort of like paying "protection" money to Guido so our shop doesn't get tossed-up.

No it's nothing like Guido hitting you up for protection. Guido is using illegal means to get something he is not entitled to. We are using legal means to get what we have WORKED OUR #####s off for. I have no idea of the outcome, but I'm not willing to roll over and say ok, whatever. In the end I will live with it, when it really is the end.

Why don't we just agree to disagee and let the process play out. If guys don't like it, go into section 6. That should get you a new contract in what, 3-4 years?

I'm willing to wait and see if I get a Capt bid in CLT on the next one.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

The Company prefers to negotiate a joint contract or a separate contract, whiCh is better for the East pilots because it is comprehensive and can create permanent fences with separate operations.

How can a separate contract or a separate operation benefit the company? Wasn't this "merger" all about combining operations and thus obtaining synergies or something similar? The company will negotiate a contract that will maximize the benefits to the company / shareholders without too much regard for the employees. Why do you keep on telling yourself and trying to convince others that the company will do what is beneficial to one particular group of employees?

Furthermore, John Prater has been in discussion with Doug Parker about this option, which is a key recommendation of the Rice Committee!

Do you honestly believe that Doug Parker gets advice from and listens to pilot union leaders on how to run the company?

The majority of the East pilots are for this too and are willing to wait a little longer to get a pay raise if it means fixing the problems of the Nicolau Award!

Do you have any data or evidence whatsover to support your claims? I recall you were sounding similarly optimistic and making predictions about the outcome for US pilots during the 2 trips to bankruptcy court.

 

[ClueByFour]

The Company prefers to negotiate a joint contract or a separate contract, whiCh is better for the East pilots because it is comprehensive and can create permanent fences with separate operations.

Furthermore, John Prater has been in discussion with Doug Parker about this option, which is a key recommendation of the Rice Committee!

Is that sort of like when you claimed that Doug Parker and/or Kirby had called Jack Stephan about parity?

How'd that work, anyway?

The company prefers a joint contract. If they "Hemmingway" you or the West, the West will force ALPA to submit the list. Food for thought.

The odds of the company giving pay parity to the East under a separate contract are zero (as was pointed out in CLT, IIRC).

 

[CaptainZitface]

Furthermore, John Prater has been in discussion with Doug Parker about this option, which is a key recommendation of the Rice Committee!

Did Doogie call Prater just like you said he called Captain Jack and his boys? Poor guy is running out of room on his speed dial, calling everybody trying to give the East pilots everything they're asking for.

How's that parity working for you? And the 13-1 EC vote to overturn the award?

 

[AWA320]

Is that sort of like when you claimed that Doug Parker and/or Kirby had called Jack Stephan about parity?

How'd that work, anyway?

The company prefers a joint contract. If they "Hemmingway" you or the West, the West will force ALPA to submit the list. Food for thought.

The odds of the company giving pay parity to the East under a separate contract are zero (as was pointed out in CLT, IIRC).

It's always those pesky details that seem to keep getting in the way.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Good point about the low cost contract vs low cost pilot group. Facts are, east is cheaper.

One would presume that "facts" would be verifiable. I've got the BTS data on my side, which says that you're wrong. Any increase in the cost of the East contract - "equal pay for equal work" or separate equal contracts with separate ops - would just serve to make the East pilot group uncompetitive cost-wise.

Of course, if you have any verification - other than wishing it were so - to support you contention that the East pilot group is lower cost, I'd love to see it.

Scope is an unknown here. The east pilots ceded two "international" segments.

The only unknown is Parker's future actions - scope in this case [East vs West] is determined by the transition agreement and is definitely a known. Maybe you should read it since your statement is patently false.

Jim

 

[CaptainZitface]

The east pilots ceded two "international" segments.

Transition agreement also provides for the East to take over a single Hawaii route. 767 service to Hawaii this winter has been a persistent rumor.

Without an appropriate scope, it may be necessary to rely on other employee groups and/or baseball bats.

Baseball bats? Classy! You sure you don't mean "walker"?