ALPA AWA MEC Thread for 8/10-8/17

[SkyRat]

Dear AWA Pilots,

Here are a few points that I believe are germane to the discussion:

1. There will never be a joint contract while the Nicolau Award is in place. You cannot make the US Airways MEC or the pilots vote for a TA.

2. Last Friday US Airways announced Pilot Permanent Bid 07-05. Two big drivers were 165 pilot recalls for November and December, which increased the number of pilot recalls to over 500 for this year.

3. Management has told the East MEC that there will be new hire pilots added to the East seniority list from the AWA pool this Fall.

4. This attrition is providing the East pilots with pay raises as First Officer's become Captain's, Reserves become Lineholders, and Narrowbody pilots become Widebody pilots. During this process no AWA pilot can become a Widebody pilot.

5. In 2010 and 2011 the US Airways pilots receive a total of $70 million in lump sum payments, which is about $23,000.

6. The East pilots believe they will be better off in the long run by preventing the Nicolau Award from being passed to the Company. Why? There will be about 300-400 East pilots leaving the company each year and about the same number added to the bottom of the seniority list as new hires.

7. The vast majority of East pilots would rather keep the two pilot groups separate and enjoy the benefits of their attrition based career expectation than agree to a new contract because thye believe thier long-term earning power is greater.

8. Most of the East pilots encourage the West pilots to enter into Section 6 negotiations.

9. ALPA de-certification on both the East and West property is getting closer every day.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Blah, blah, blah!!!

Back to your meds LGA man...

 

[Piedmont1984]

Piedmont I don't feel like I won a lottery, I just feel that I didn't get hosed!! The DOH mantra never stopped there was simply no compromise on the part of the east pilot group NONE!! We in the west did nothing other than put on a case and not get screwed!

Indulge me. So you would reverse your number one pilot with our number 517 pilot? Number 517 was hired two years before AWA was in existence, two years before your number one pilot was hired. Number 517 has the seniority to hold a widebody captain slot if he chose, equipment that AWA did not even bring to the merger.

Nicolau set aside 517 slots for the East pilots. What was the point? They already held those widebody positions, and age 60 is a fait accompli. The rest he just slotted, like tossing a salad. He did not even use the time allotted to him. He just did what was easiest.

You would not have been hosed with DOH because of conditions/restrictions, no bump/no flush, possible fences as well as conditions which management insisted upon (training costs, active vs furloughed).

But the several hundred East F/Os who were hired between '86 and '90, many of whom have over twenty years of continuous service with this company, truly did get hosed.

I would even have been willing to slot the captains while giving the group above DOH with all of the conditions I have mentioned. I don't like what I got but I could live with it in the interest of cooperation and labor peace.

Which is why the award is unworkable and why we are where we are.

 

[Tiger 1050]

AWA320 Quote

"Not gonna happen as management has already told you and made this point well known, they will not be doing seperate ops or seperate contracts. You are about to cost the east pilots more than pay my man and you have failed to heed the warnings coming out of Tempe! Hard head makes for really soft a$$."
Nostradamus thoughts:

Aside the debates on this board, ad nauseam, about the legalities, morality and strategies of both pilot groups the only safe solution for the flying public, is to run the operations separately for the near future. If one has a basic understanding of human nature they can predict that these discussions will carry over into the cockpits which will obviously cause a distraction that is unacceptable.

A judge can not and will not force a married couple to get along, you can not legislate or order harmony. Only time and attrition will heal these wounds.

On this you and I agree 100%.


Good day little children...

 

[AWA320]

Indulge me. So you would reverse your number one pilot with our number 517 pilot? Number 517 was hired two years before AWA was in existence, two years before your number one pilot was hired. Number 517 has the seniority to hold a widebody captain slot if he chose, equipment that AWA did not even bring to the merger.

Absolutly not, that is not what I am saying at all. What I am saying is our number 1 went from that number to number 518!! Fair?? I think not

Nicolau set aside 517 slots for the East pilots. What was the point? They already held those widebody positions, and age 60 is a fait accompli. The rest he just slotted, like tossing a salad. He did not even use the time allotted to him. He just did what was easiest.

Ok now if our number 1 wished to travel east to fly wide body he could not because he was moved from number 1 to number 518.

You would not have been hosed with DOH because of conditions/restrictions, no bump/no flush, possible fences as well as conditions which management insisted upon (training costs, active vs furloughed).

Conditions and restrictions?? Good right up to the time when the company may need to furlough then what??? AWA pilots go first while AAA pilots that were furloughed get the benefit of a DOH at our expense. Fair?? I think not!!!

But the several hundred East F/Os who were hired between '86 and '90, many of whom have over twenty years of continuous service with this company, truly did get hosed.

How?? Where they were before on the AAA list is where they are on a combined list!!, These pilots were long on longetivity but short on seniority. They lost nothing as they are in the same place. You advocate placing them on the list in a DOH which would allow them to hurt us for years and years.

I would even have been willing to slot the captains while giving the group above DOH with all of the conditions I have mentioned. I don't like what I got but I could live with it in the interest of cooperation and labor peace.

That's just it you were sloted, we all were with the exception of the 517 windfall.

Which is why the award is unworkable and why we are where we are.

No it's workable Piedmont you just fail to want to acknowledge it..

 

[Piedmont1984]

I can't argue anymore. You win the debate. But I also can't abandon those whom I have worked with these past two decades. Win or lose, I choose to stand by them.

 

[LCC_#1]

No it's workable Piedmont you just fail to want to acknowledge it..

Hey AWA320, since you are so against DOH, why don't you forgo your senority for a new hire? While your at it, stand by and let a 2007 hire take a nonrev seat before you. Entitlement only come across your big mouth when it doesn't benefit you! Since you are soooo against DOH, you should have no problem in letting a 21 year old new hire agent bump your butt off a flight.

 

[AWA320]

I can't argue anymore. You win the debate. But I also can't abandon those whom I have worked with these past two decades. Win or lose, I choose to stand by them.

Nor do I expect you too. Piedmont, all of your comments and debate have always been civil and I not only appreiciate but respect it as well.

Thank you

 

[AWA320]

Hey AWA320, since you are so against DOH, why don't you forgo your senority for a new hire? While your at it, stand by and let a 2007 hire take a nonrev seat before you. Entitlement only come across your big mouth when it doesn't benefit you! Since you are soooo against DOH, you should have no problem in letting a 21 year old new hire agent bump your butt off a flight.

Easy fix for the non rev issue as we just finished an arbitration that I think we will win. We go back to the way it was first come first serve.

 

[flyinawa]

AWA320

....Aside from a few token comments from the West regarding dissatisfaction with the outcome, stated mainly to support their argument, all the West pilots want this award to remain. OTOH, all the East pilots want the award to go.

What does that say to you? If the award was fair and equitable, both sides would be equally unhappy with the result. Or at least some significant, measurable percentage of both sides would be equally pissed. But not here.

If there is such a wide, and I mean polar opposite, disparity in the reaction to this award then how can it be interpreted as fair and equitable. Someone received a windfall here and windfalls accrued to one side at the expense of the other are a no-no. Yes?

I will repeat what I have said on these boards before. I do not accuse the West pilots of any wrongdoing. But I do say that you guys won the lottery, and the arbitrator took the easy way out, did not comply with merger policy, and did both pilot groups a disservice.

Wrong. Ask senior America West pilots if they are happy with the idea that a bunch of Easties could bid into PHX and cause havoc with their lifestyles. Speaking of seniority in relative percentages, the top guys moved down. WAY down. However, they aren't trying to decertify ALPA. Furthermore, the change of the West travel system to mirror the FORMER USAirways program was, without a doubt, a MAJOR windfall for the FORMER East employees. No threats of war from the West. They played by the rules and while things didn't go the way they were hoping for, they didn't threaten to take their toys and go home.

Don't confuse not trying to de-cert ALPA or run the company into the ground as an indication of laying down. There are many battles to be fought for both the East and West sides in the merger. But losing a battle then winning the war is the point. Stability, better pay, improved work rules, etc, that is what the West is focusing on instead of petty battles with the East pilots.

 

[Phoenix]

Wrong. Ask senior America West pilots if they are happy with the idea that a bunch of Easties could bid into PHX and cause havoc with their lifestyles.

So you would agree to the Nic award being ammended to have fences for 20 years to keep all USAir pilots from ever going to LAS and PHX?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Furthermore, the change of the West travel system to mirror the FORMER USAirways program was, without a doubt, a MAJOR windfall for the FORMER East employees.

Nothing personal, this is where you flat out have it wrong. The present non-rev travel program doesn't even come close to what the east HAD. And you want to label that a windfall?

The old system was very simple. Date of hire. No more no less. At all times. None of this year of hire, checked in, not checked in, time of check in and that's assuming the gate agents can even find your reservation in the first place..............what a mess!! But it was the best compromise the company could come up with. Compromise equals windfall?? I don't think so. Since we're both PO'ed.

 

[flyinawa]

....But it was the best compromise the company could come up with. Compromise equals windfall?? I don't think so. Since we're both PO'ed.

Substitute "the company" with George Nicolau.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Substitute "the company" with George Nicolau.

Nice try. But that won't happen either.

 

[SegmentKing]

I can't believe we're talkin about NRSA.

FCFS, like Shares, worked for a regional airline. But you are dealing with a workforce that has had "seniority" pounded in its head.

So far, the system in place is OK... its difficult when you are in some of the East's caribbean destinations to use the 12 hour window - so while I'm on the beach in Tortola the guy with same YOH as myself can use the computer at his hotel to check-in.

*shrugs*

 

[flyinawa]

Nice try. But that won't happen either.

I know. I hate it when someone uses my own argument against me too.