AWA MEC Chairman's Special Update

[Junebug172]

Thanks John, you 8-year longevity veteran. You have done more to further solidify the East pilots than any other action!

You guys on the east are going to walk over each other ratifying this joint contract.

The only solidarity you have is the bottom 500 and a handful of senior guys.

So please, cut the solidarity crap. You guys have done it before and you'll do it again.

Your cranks have got to be pretty sore from stepping on them all of the time.

 

[USA320Pilot]

Junebug,

The MEC's sentiment regarding the Nicolau Award matches the vast majority of US Airways pilots and the only way there will be a joint contract is if it stipulates "separate operations" where East pilots can only bid bases east of the Mississippi River and West pilots can only bid bases west of the Mississippi River.

Otherwise, there will be no joint contract and the East MEC/NC will engage the comapny in contract talks, which I believe will be supported by the Rice Committee and ALPA International for separate contracts and separate operations per yesterday's PHL Council 41 update.

Why? As the BOS F/O Rep. said today and Captain Rice indicated with his comments in quotation marks, "The JNC talks will go forward, but not in the 'traditional sense,' and may include many different variations that we have not yet even considered."

After today's news I do not think many East pilots care what the West pilots have to say or think about this issue. And, many of the East pilots are some what more satisified with the EC's position and today's briefing by Captain Rice.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Junebug172]

Junebug,

The MEC's sentiment regarding the Nicolau Award matches the vast majority of US Airways pilots and the only way there will be a joint contract is if it stipulates "separate operations" where East pilots can only bid bases east of the Mississippi River and West pilots can only bid bases west of the Mississippi River.

Otherwise, there will be no joint contract and the East MEC/NC will engage the comapny in contract talks, which I believe will be supported by the Rice Committee and ALPA International for separate contracts and separate operations per yesterday's PHL Council 41 update.

Why? As the BOS F/O Rep. said today and Captain Rice indicated with his comments in quotation marks, "The JNC talks will go forward, but not in the 'traditional sense,' and may include many different variations that we have not yet even considered."

After today's news I do not think many East pilots care what the West pilots have to say or think about this issue. And, many of the East pilots are some what more satisified with the EC's position and today's briefing by Captain Rice.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Do you realize how desperate you sound?

 

[USA320Pilot]

Junebug,

I'm not desperate at all. I simply provided information from different MEC Reps. and ALPA EVP Paul Rice regarding recent EC, East MEC, and Company actions.

By the way, what is wrong with preserving both the West and East pilot group career expectations with separate operations? Everybody keeps their pre-merger career expectation and the parties can negotiate either a joint or separate contract.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[prechilill]

Junebug,

I'm not desperate at all. I simply provided information from different MEC Reps. and ALPA EVP Paul Rice regarding recent EC, East MEC, and Company actions.

By the way, what is wrong with preserving both the West and East pilot group career expectations with separate operations? Everybody keeps their pre-merger career expectation and the parties can negotiate either a joint or separate contract.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

It's called a "merger", Name deleted.
Moderator reminder...names are NOT to be used in posts.

 

[ussnark]

Don't flatter yourself.

Well, that was certainly coherent.

 

[exB717Flyer]

I don't think the AAA MEC has anything to do with the decert. attempt.

That's pretty obvious. If they did the MEC would be put in receivership. But that doesn't mean they're not privately planning.

I think while the lawsuit is playing out, the AAA MEC will look at the separtate operations idea. I personally don't think that is a good idea, it has a lot of pitfalls, but the AWA MEC is not willing to look at other ideas, so it may be the only one left if the lawsuit fails.

Well, you'd better plan on the suit failing. There's no actionable compliant in it, it's just a rehash of what was already argued and ruled upon by Nicolau. And as far as the AWA MEC "looking at other ideas," why in the world should they look at ideas that are detrimental to Westies? If the Company comes at us with a seperate-but-equal proposal we'll be sure to look at it. The West still has a gun to our head so don't expect us consider your ideas until we can negotiate as equals again.

I wonder if Doug is sorry he didn't wrap up a joint contract before the award came out. I think if he had ALPA would have taken the easy road and sent the list to the company. The only reason they haven't is because they know we can legally drag a joint contract out for years, preventing "Taking it Back".

I disagree. As explained by our EVP, there List hasn't been presented yet becuase there's no reason to do so. Until a Joint Contract has been agreed to the list is irrelevant. Prater is essentially quelling y'all by giving some false hope.

I hope the decert drive is in full swing. It needs to be gotten over with so we can move on one way or another.

 

[Junebug172]

By the way, what is wrong with preserving both the West and East pilot group career expectations with separate operations? Everybody keeps their pre-merger career expectation and the parties can negotiate either a joint or separate contract.


I know this is going to come as a shock to you, but Parker's reason to bring our two carriers together was to make money and not worry about "career expectations."

We're along for the ride and the only way DP is going to see this thing make the money he wants it to make is if we combine operations.

You've got your finger in a very leaky dam and there's nothing you can do to stop it from busting open.

You're going to be very disappointed.

 

[Rico]

The one thing that the AWA Chair mentioned as important, yet downplayed to the many East Pilot readers,

Is that in the long run it will be more lucrative for the East Pilots to remain separate.

Because, that's where all the real growth will be.

The West Chair mentioned looking at the lost revenue of the East remaining separate, because he knows that that is where the widebody flying,and international growth will be. He admits such when he says that such a thing would provoke the AWA pilots to sue, because he knows that is where the future value lies in this "Company". He just tries o cover it up with paragraph after paragraph of pleas + claims of the many advantages to the East pilots to push for a combinded company. He is the one that seems scared of what the future would be for his pilots if the two airlines remain apart.


IMO the West will end up being nothing more than a glorified US Airways Express carrier feeding the growing East "Mainline".

This has already happened here at good 'ol US Airways Group. After the PSA Express pilots cut a deal and left the Allegheny and Piedmont pilots behind... They doubled in size, and went from 32 seaters to 70 seat jets. ALG was later closed down, and PDT has continued to shrink over the years as PSA enjoyed all the growth, and PDT enjoyed a "better contract".

No, the best thing for the East Pilots is to stay apart, and enjoy the fruits of being the cheaper + more profitable half of the company.

From a 330 Captain thinking about moving into a 340, all the way down to junior F/O's not wanting to be stuck on reserve and having a much faster upgrade into larger aircraft or the E-190 left seat...

THAT'S why the East pilots IMO will not push to combine, Because in the long run, growth is better. If your company (HP)had been 500+ aircraft strong once, and over the years you went through what the AAA pilots have, then you would understand.


"Let em have their Award" "We'll keep the flying to ourselves instead"

 

[Pi brat]

That's pretty obvious. If they did the MEC would be put in receivership. But that doesn't mean they're not privately planning.Well, you'd better plan on the suit failing. There's no actionable compliant in it, it's just a rehash of what was already argued and ruled upon by Nicolau. And as far as the AWA MEC "looking at other ideas," why in the world should they look at ideas that are detrimental to Westies? If the Company comes at us with a seperate-but-equal proposal we'll be sure to look at it. The West still has a gun to our head so don't expect us consider your ideas until we can negotiate as equals again.I disagree. As explained by our EVP, there List hasn't been presented yet becuase there's no reason to do so. Until a Joint Contract has been agreed to the list is irrelevant. Prater is essentially quelling y'all by giving some false hope.

I hope the decert drive is in full swing. It needs to be gotten over with so we can move on one way or another.

If you knew the players on the MEC and the decert. effort you wouldn't think they have anything to do with each other.

I'm not planning on anything, because I have no way of knowing how this thing will turn out. You guys may force the list, a joint contract and joint operation down out throats by the end of the year, but I doubt it. I don't think Parker put enough money on the table before the award was out to sway the senior guys, and the junior will probably vote no, no matter what. I think there could be a better way out of this for all of us, but I think everyone would rather stick out their chests and piss on each others shoes.

 

[BoeingBoy]

No, the best thing for the East Pilots is to stay apart, and enjoy the fruits of being the cheaper + more profitable half of the company.

Unfortunately what almost no one seems to grasp is that this type of statement is based on two false assumptions.

- That the East's lower cost contract means that the East is a lower cost pilot group.

- That the "more profitable" (higher yield, more revenue, etc) East side of the operation must necessarily be flown by East pilots.

Jim

 

[AWA320]

It's called a "merger", name deleted by moderator.

Be careful calling him by name, they will suspend you for that. They did it to me for it...

 

[ussnark]

Unfortunately what almost no one seems to grasp is that this type of statement is based on two false assumptions.

- That the East's lower cost contract means that the East is a lower cost pilot group.

- That the "more profitable" (higher yield, more revenue, etc) East side of the operation must necessarily be flown by East pilots.

Jim

With all due respect.

Good point about the low cost contract vs low cost pilot group. Facts are, east is cheaper.

Scope is an unknown here. The east pilots ceded two "international" segments. Without an appropriate scope, it may be necessary to rely on other employee groups and/or baseball bats.

 

[SegmentKing]

Now now, don't go acting all high & mighty cause US had a number of incidents ... I don't think HP is all that innocent. We've all had crashes, I've worked for 2 airlines that killed people and its not fun, especially when you know the pilots. But the fact that people are inferring "HP is safer" or "US is safer" really needs to stop.... every incident has resulted in new rules / regulations that may have saved lives.

anyway, what happened with 635? was it a brake failure that caused it to veer?

 

[WOpropTrash]

No, the best thing for the East Pilots is to stay apart, and enjoy the fruits of being the cheaper + more profitable half of the company.

That's a rather self-serving statement from you, and maybe not in the best interest of all.

You are one of the CEL guys that got added to bottom of the list, aren't you?