AWA ALPA Thread for the Week 9/14-9/20

[BottomFeeder]

West pilots won't be paying dues to USAPA for quite awhile. Why do I say that?

1) Because if USAPA were to be voted in, absent any agreement that unifies the pilot groups (which I suspect would need to include language accepting Nicolau), West pilots would still belong to ALPA and pay dues there.

2) If USAPA were voted in, it is likely that any lawsuit filed by or on behalf of West pilots, would ask for a Temporary Restraining Order and seek a Permanent Injunction against USAPA making any determination that any West pilot was in Bad Standing absent a court order or judgment to the contrary.

There are more possibilities, but those are the ones that immediately spring to mind USA320Pilot. You seem to be on the wrong side to be making statements like "There is no way out of this mess for the AWA pilots and the sooner they listen to the EC, Rice Committee, Doug Parker, and the US Airways MEC the sooner a deal can be reached that has "realistic solutions" to the Nicolau Award or the AWA pilots will be forced to pay USAPA union dues in the first quarter of 2008." BTW, just what did happen yesterday in connection with the ALPA Executive Council meeting?

BTW, the legal bills alone for USAPA will likely far exceed that $500,000.00.

Here is the good part hp_fa

When USAPA is voted in as the new union under the RLA

All will pay dues:
Some will pay the full amount and have all benefits
Others will pay a reduced rate and will have less benefits
Non payment is grounds to be fired

When you sue USAPA, you will be without ALPA and all monies will come out of the AWA's pockets :blink:

Then when you lose your case the back dues will be collected or your fired

Your back dues will pay the fees of USAPA
You will also pay ALL of the assessment that USAPA has as well

Fired = no money
Sue = double dip
First by paying the out of your pocket for the lawsuit
Second by paying the union fees to defend the case

If you don't believe me then ask 700UW for the "facts"

 

[BottomFeeder]

Knowing Jerry Glass' M.O. better check the DCO language, bet you it is ALPA specific, Jerry crafted numerous agreements with union specific language.

When the NWA IBT represented FAs went PFAA, the CBA language was IBT specific and the PFAA could not collect dues from its membership via payroll.

700UW

Are you trying to mislead people into thinking they don't have to pay dues?

1. Dues will be charged
2. Collection can be added to the agreement but it does not make the dues payment optional.
3. Failure to pay dues and you will be fired--- if the union advises the company of non-payment

Stick to the facts

 

[700UW]

I am sticking to the facts, better go read the DCO language, if it is ALPA specific, like Glass likes to write, USAPA or any other union is not able to collect dues.

It happend at NWA, and they could not fire the FAs who did not pay.

 

[Phoenix]

I am sticking to the facts, better go read the DCO language, if it is ALPA specific, like Glass likes to write, USAPA or any other union is not able to collect dues.

It happend at NWA, and they could not fire the FAs who did not pay.

If USAPA is voted in then the paying members will vote.

The non-paying members will not vote.

And in case you didn't know, "silence is consent."

 

[767jetz]

If USAPA is voted in then the paying members will vote.

The non-paying members will not vote.

Problem with your theory is, nothing will ever get to a vote. West will not pay dues, so east will have the only paying members and the only vote. But long before there is anything to vote on, USAPA will be bankrupt due to law suits.

One other thought. What makes you think the West pilots can't torpedo the operation just like the East is doing now? With USAPA trying to ram DOH down, the West will pull the same tactics out of your play book and demand that they get what they want from USAPA and the company or the place will burn down. Working by the book can be accomplished by anyone. Then USAirways will continue to die a slow and ugly death. And in the mean time, the Nicolau award will still be binding and you will still be stuck with LOA 93. And the more money the company burns on this war, the less will be available for the pilots.

Just some food for thought.

 

[P51Pilot]

Problem with your theory is, nothing will ever get to a vote. West will not pay dues, so east will have the only paying members and the only vote. But long before there is anything to vote on, USAPA will be bankrupt due to law suits.

One other thought. What makes you think the West pilots can't torpedo the operation just like the East is doing now? With USAPA trying to ram DOH down, the West will pull the same tactics out of your play book and demand that they get what they want from USAPA and the company or the place will burn down. Working by the book can be accomplished by anyone. Then USAirways will continue to die a slow and ugly death. And in the mean time, the Nicolau award will still be binding and you will still be stuck with LOA 93. And the more money the company burns on this war, the less will be available for the pilots.

Just some food for thought.

No just some more ALPA FUD from an ALPA cheerleader. Much like the unsigned(balless) communique put out by ALPA a few days back. I hope it continues, because the more in the mud the ALPA thugs get in the attempt to keep stealing our dues, the more this group becomes galvanized.

 

[AWA320]

Wasn't it all you west guys saying we have to honor the current CBA and language if USAPA is elected? Isn't the closed shop language part of that contract? Or is it just selective enforcement of the contract provisions? If you participate, you can propose to have that language removed for the USAPA negotiated CBA.

It could be part of the contract but you must undestand that your actions are all telling!! You sought only to change representation AFTER you didn't get to hose us in arbitration!! Your motives are crystal clear to anyone who looks. I am more than certain that this company will not enforce agancy shop on 1900 pilots as the results would be unthinkable....

Bottom line, AWA pilots would not support USAPA and most certainly sue! I know because I stand ready with donations to file suit, my name will be at the top of that summons and complaint...

 

[Coffee_Tea_Or_Me]

Not for long. Hiring off the street is beginning for pilots and continuing for FA's, ya gonna have to past the baton to the new generation. New blood is the future for this group of passive aggressive malcontents.

I thought the off street hiring was for the East? Hiring FAs has nothing to do with it -- AFA has the good sense to have a DOH policy in place to protect its members. How many pilots would the West have to hire to out number the East -- a 1000 or so?

 

[AWA320]

Problem with your theory is, nothing will ever get to a vote. West will not pay dues, so east will have the only paying members and the only vote. But long before there is anything to vote on, USAPA will be bankrupt due to law suits.

One other thought. What makes you think the West pilots can't torpedo the operation just like the East is doing now? With USAPA trying to ram DOH down, the West will pull the same tactics out of your play book and demand that they get what they want from USAPA and the company or the place will burn down. Working by the book can be accomplished by anyone. Then USAirways will continue to die a slow and ugly death. And in the mean time, the Nicolau award will still be binding and you will still be stuck with LOA 93. And the more money the company burns on this war, the less will be available for the pilots.

Just some food for thought.

Why even tell them?? Each decision they make is more stupid than the last!! Not one AWA pilot will contribute and the company will not force the issue and the injunction filed on behalf of the AWA pilots will hault any actions this group attempts to make with regard to terminating a west pilots employment.

They do sound good though don't they??? Get ready boys and girls as Eastern Continental part two is just about to begin. The go one way we go the direct opposite each and every time. LOA 93 will feel like a train went up their rear ends by the time this is said and done.

 

[Phoenix]

No just some more ALPA FUD from an ALPA cheerleader. Much like the unsigned(balless) communique put out by ALPA a few days back. I hope it continues, because the more in the mud the ALPA thugs get in the attempt to keep stealing our dues, the more this group becomes galvanized.

Hear, hear. Both the thug tactics of ALPA and the dunderheads who oppose the right of pilots to vote (or those boogy men fears if we want to vote), they both galvanize the resolve of pilots who demand a right to vote.

 

[P51Pilot]

Why even tell them?? Each decision they make is more stupid than the last!! Not one AWA pilot will contribute and the company will not force the issue and the injunction filed on behalf of the AWA pilots will hault any actions this group attempts to make with regard to terminating a west pilots employment.

They do sound good though don't they??? Get ready boys and girls as Eastern Continental part two is just about to begin. The go one way we go the direct opposite each and every time. LOA 93 will feel like a train went up their rear ends by the time this is said and done.

Raises come and go and seniority is permanent, so LOA 93 with seniority intact is better than selling it out for what is likely a transient gain. I know it's hard for people with an opportunist philosophy to understand but the negative spiral in pilot and wages isn't going to improve while that mindset is en force. Enjoy your current wages and long term stagnation, because most of the attrition and hiring will be going hand in hand with LOA 93 while the groups remain separate. ALPA has led us to a place of dog eat dog. I guess you feel that is a good return on your 1.95%.

 

[electricjet98]

When considering whether or not USAPA has enough money, consider this:

2,500 pilots times $200 per pilot equals ????

That is enough to start a union. Then shortly after the election all US Airways and AWA pilots will be required to pay USAPA dues to fund the new union. The AWA pilots may not have to pay all of their dues, but they are required by law to pay a portion of their new union dues.

If a member goes into bad standing then they cannot vote on the new Constitution and By-Laws (and Merger Policy), which is o.k. with the East pilots and over 2,400 people who have submitted to USAPA Authorization Cards. In addition, the pilots in bad standing would not have normal representation.

There is no way out of this mess for the AWA pilots and the sooner they listen to the EC, Rice Committee, Doug Parker, and the US Airways MEC the sooner a deal can be reached that has "realistic solutions" to the Nicolau Award or the AWA pilots will be forced to pay USAPA union dues in the first quarter of 2008.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

I gotta tell ya Bud, you are a great source of both entertainment and resolve for the west guys. Your inflammatory posts will be your eventual "undoing"!


From the USAPA website (begging for pennies):

Of the 2300+ pilots who have sent in a card, only about 300 of you have stepped-up to the plate and sent a donation. You/we need additional funds to get us from where we are today to the finding of a representational dispute and on to the election itself. While we and our advisors believe strongly that the NMB will deliver a finding in our favor, the process necessarily chews up quite a few lawyer and consultant hours.

Based upon our projected needs, we need every pilot to contribute at least $200 and to do so soon. If you can only manage $50 off of a credit card, please do so - hopefully a fellow pilot can make up the difference. If you had a marvelous time on your last Vegas layover, send along a generous portion of the spoils. We have a narrow window of time for the filing. Let us be as clear about this as we can: we do not have sufficient funds to complete this journey.

 

[ChuckBewFarley]

This could be the turd in the USAPA punch bowl.

Smart thinking, stage a sickout and not have the $$ to pay for it.

Your leaving marks as you swirl down the hole.... :down:




MEC Alert – September 20, 2007



To: All US Airways Pilots



From: John McIlvenna, AWA MEC Chairman

Jack Stephan, AAA MEC Chairman



US Airways management has asserted that pilots have been “encouraged by crew room posters to participate in a ‘No Fly Day’ planned for September 21.â€



Information has been received that posters were labeled with the USAPA logo. The company threatened USAPA with legal action and financial penalties if it did not take action to inform pilots that it did not support any such job action and USAPA immediately issued a disclaimer on its web site acknowledging that such action “would be a violation of the Railway Labor Act and contrary to the interests of the pilot groupâ€.



The Company has requested that ALPA also inform pilots of the Association’s position. The alleged job actions about which the Company complains have not been requested and are not supported by the Air Line Pilots Association, Intl., for the simple reason that concerted job activity of the type described by management exposes you as an individual to serious legal risk and financial penalties, including discharge from employment at US Airways. It also exposes your union to injunctions, fines and other monetary claims.



This is to inform you that USAPA does not have the resources or authority to represent you should you be disciplined for participating in a so-called “No Fly Day†or any other job action intended to protest our existing workplace terms or conditions. Based on the substantial risk to you, ALPA encourages you not to engage in such activity.

 

[BottomFeeder]

Why even tell them?? Each decision they make is more stupid than the last!! Not one AWA pilot will contribute and the company will not force the issue and the injunction filed on behalf of the AWA pilots will hault any actions this group attempts to make with regard to terminating a west pilots employment.

They do sound good though don't they??? Get ready boys and girls as Eastern Continental part two is just about to begin. The go one way we go the direct opposite each and every time. LOA 93 will feel like a train went up their rear ends by the time this is said and done.

You have been wrong so many times so far what is one more.

Go ahead and get an injunction and you (West) will pay 1 and a 1/2 of the total cost

While the East will pay 1/2

You will be funding 100% of the complete adventure to fight your new union, since ALPA is off the property. This is the 1
You will end up paying ALL the dues and assessments as well. This will be the 1/2

The East will pay 1/2 the cost of of the defense of our union.

Congrats on your positioning to pick up the major cost

 

[AAA73Pilot]

This could be the turd in the USAPA punch bowl.

Smart thinking, stage a sickout and not have the $$ to pay for it.

Your leaving marks as you swirl down the hole.... :down:
MEC Alert – September 20, 2007



To: All US Airways Pilots



From: John McIlvenna, AWA MEC Chairman

Jack Stephan, AAA MEC Chairman




This is to inform you that USAPA does not have the resources or authority to represent you should you be disciplined for participating in a so-called “No Fly Dayâ€￾ or any other job action intended to protest our existing workplace terms or conditions. Based on the substantial risk to you, ALPA encourages you not to engage in such activity.

Your right about one thing. USAPA will not defend any pilot executing a sickout on 9/21. It's not our responsibility to defend pilots we don't represent yet. It's now plainly obvious that this action by design is meant to drag USAPA into a battle that is not our concern. It won't happen. No amount of supposedly "planted" evidence will pass muster with any court. In PHL, I know one person who was passing out the flyers. And he's not a USAPA supporter.

Our only concern and plan of action is to seek a certification election. That is the only area in our scope and responsibility at the moment. ALPA's misguided attempts to place the blame for such an action on a challenger only demonstrates once again the credibility we carry within the pilot group.

BTW. Nice try. Next!