AWA ALPA Thread for the Week 9/14-9/20

[sharktooth]

Interesting to hear Parker say without the merger "We would have been in bankrupcty..."

Wasn't the East "in" bankruptcy at the merger announcement? Making Parkers statement true, but irrelevant to what is spun. He did not say that the East would then "go" into bankruptcy. He simply said that without a merger, East would be in bankruptcy. Wow! OK, sun rises in east.

What seems more important, is that, without this particular merger, AWA would then have gone into liquidation, per their Zanzibar plan. As the East has found out, liquidation is simply a subset of a vast grouping of accounting maneuvers called bankruptcy.

Without Parkers merger, East remains in bk pending a relationship with one or both of two other investors. West goes directly to liquidation. Seems to me things look a little different in this light.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Wasn't the East "in" bankruptcy at the merger announcement? Making Parkers statement true, but irrelevant to what is spun. He did not say that the East would then "go" into bankruptcy. He simply said that without a merger, East would be in bankruptcy. Wow! OK, sun rises in east.

What seems more important, is that, without this particular merger, AWA would then have gone into liquidation, per their Zanzibar plan. As the East has found out, liquidation is simply a subset of a vast grouping of accounting maneuvers called bankruptcy.

Without Parkers merger, East remains in bk pending a relationship with one or both of two other investors. West goes directly to liquidation. Seems to me things look a little different in this light.

Actually you have it backwards. But don't take my word for it. Check it out for yourself.

Zanzibar was to put AWA into BK, not CH7. The east would have liquidated...

 

[Junebug172]

========================================================

Not exactly true. I was offered a position there and I am on LTD. Never have been furloughed. As was most of the flight operations staff there. But don't let the facts intrude on your worldview.

Well then, here are some facts:


The sale of MDA to Wexford (Republic Holdings) was announced in March of 2005. This constructive notice date is a full two months prior to the AWA/AAA announcement.

Pilots flying for MDA came from two sources, furloughed mainline USAirways pilots, or from the wholly owned companies (hiring from the street was an option, but never happened). A active mainline pilot could not bid to fly an E170. Subsequently, a pilot flying for MDA could not bid a mainline position. Those mainline APL pilots (Affected Pilot List...meaning furloughed), had to be recalled, in order to return to mainline flying. This did not happen until February of 2006.

In either LOA 91 or LOA 93, it states that a furloughed pilot working at MDA will not gain any mainline longevity. It would seem that continuous service would include continued longevity.

I may be incorrect on this, but the contract of MDA mirrored that of American Eagle. ALPA was working on a separate MDA contract, which was basically abandoned in June of 2005, as the transaction with Wexford was being completed. I'm fairly sure MDA was not operating under the mainline contract.

Two good sources to view and draw your own conclusion about this issue are LOA 91 and LOA 93, which encompasses the small jet and jets for jobs issues.

This is far different from the E190s that we have today. Any pilot, once everything comes together, will be able to bid the E190. Additionally and most importantly, it will be operated under the new mainline contract. In fact, it is currently being operated under the concessionary east mainline contract.

 

[Junebug172]

What's the matter USA320Pilot?

Run out of BS to post?

 

[EastUS]

What's the matter USA320Pilot?

Run out of BS to post?

While that guys' no friend of mine, nor do I take his self serving BS for anything usefull. My "take" is that he's lusting after usage with the forthcoming union...Good Luck to him there

Whew! It's a good thing that when BS's in short supply...you're always ready to jump in.

 

[hp_fa]

When considering whether or not USAPA has enough money, consider this:

2,500 pilots times $200 per pilot equals ????

That is enough to start a union. Then shortly after the election all US Airways and AWA pilots will be required to pay USAPA dues to fund the new union. The AWA pilots may not have to pay all of their dues, but they are required by law to pay a portion of their new union dues.

If a member goes into bad standing then they cannot vote on the new Constitution and By-Laws (and Merger Policy), which is o.k. with the East pilots and over 2,400 people who have submitted to USAPA Authorization Cards. In addition, the pilots in bad standing would not have normal representation.

(For those East pilots, with whom I have been having a civil and informative dialogue, please don't take offense to the following. It is aimed at the person that seems to be making the threats.)

USA320Pilot, this response is to you.

West pilots won't be paying dues to USAPA for quite awhile. Why do I say that?

1) Because if USAPA were to be voted in, absent any agreement that unifies the pilot groups (which I suspect would need to include language accepting Nicolau), West pilots would still belong to ALPA and pay dues there.

2) If USAPA were voted in, it is likely that any lawsuit filed by or on behalf of West pilots, would ask for a Temporary Restraining Order and seek a Permanent Injunction against USAPA making any determination that any West pilot was in Bad Standing absent a court order or judgment to the contrary.

There are more possibilities, but those are the ones that immediately spring to mind USA320Pilot. You seem to be on the wrong side to be making statements like "There is no way out of this mess for the AWA pilots and the sooner they listen to the EC, Rice Committee, Doug Parker, and the US Airways MEC the sooner a deal can be reached that has "realistic solutions" to the Nicolau Award or the AWA pilots will be forced to pay USAPA union dues in the first quarter of 2008." BTW, just what did happen yesterday in connection with the ALPA Executive Council meeting?

BTW, the legal bills alone for USAPA will likely far exceed that $500,000.00.

 

[EastUS]

(For those East pilots, with whom I have been having a civil and informative dialogue, please don't take offense to the following. It is aimed at the person that seems to be making the threats.)

USA320Pilot, this response is to you.

West pilots won't be paying dues to USAPA for quite awhile? Why do I say that?

1) Because if USAPA were to be voted in, absent any agreement that unifies the pilot groups (which I suspect would need to include language accepting Nicolau), West pilots would still belong to ALPA and pay dues there.

2) If USAPA were voted in, it is likely that any lawsuit filed by or on behalf of West pilots, would ask for a Temporary Restraining Order and seek a Permanent Injunction against USAPA making any determination that any West pilot was in Bad Standing absent a court order or judgment to the contrary.

There are more possibilities, but those are the ones that immediately spring to mind USA320Pilot. You seem to be on the wrong side to be making statements like "There is no way out of this mess for the AWA pilots and the sooner they listen to the EC, Rice Committee, Doug Parker, and the US Airways MEC the sooner a deal can be reached that has "realistic solutions" to the Nicolau Award or the AWA pilots will be forced to pay USAPA union dues in the first quarter of 2008." BTW, just what did happen yesterday in connection with the ALPA Executive Council meeting?

BTW, the legal bills alone for USAPA will likely far exceed that $500,000.00.

We differ significantly on legal billing estimates, but, I believe that there's sufficient sentiment/pecuniary abilty hereabouts to pony up as needed, to be free of Alpo's predations over the proven course of time, and any expectable notions of any future. Heck..if Prater fell into a manhole as we speak?..It would save more than that sum per year for Alpo's "benefactors" = the membership.

 

[hp_fa]

We differ significantly on legal billing estimates, but, I believe that there's sufficient sentiment/pecuniary abilty hereabouts to pony up as needed, to be free of Alpo's predations over the proven course of time, and any expectable notions of any future. Heck..if Prater fell into a manhole as we speak?..It would save more than that sum per year for Alpo's "benefactors" = the membership.

Perhaps, once the dust settles, we can see who was right and who was wrong in their estimates. If you get to PHX I will even by the first few rounds.

I understand and respect your statement regarding sentiment to pony up. It is just a shame that East didn't do this back when they seemed to be getting really upset, say in the area of 2000-2003. Things might be much different now and there likely would be less legal expense ahead for everyone.

 

[Junebug172]

Whew! It's a good thing that when BS's in short supply...you're always ready to jump in.

You're no slouch yourself!!!

 

[EastUS]

Perhaps, once the dust settles, we can see who was right and who was wrong in their estimates. If you get to PHX I will even by the first few rounds.

I understand and respect your statement regarding sentiment to pony up. It is just a shame that East didn't do this back when they seemed to be getting really upset, say in the area of 2000-2003. Things might be much different now and there likely would be less legal expense ahead of everyone.

Heartilly agree. In my estimation? = There was far too much of a defeatest sense present, and too little unity at that period in time..and just too much plain shock and disbelief overall.

The only "benefit" to the east via the Nic business..is in some large degree, and LONG overdue, a lightning rod hit sense of awakening.

I, very honestly, feel that much of the disintegration of the quality of "airline life" over the last 20+ years has been due to the lack of ANY viable representation by the supposed "National"....lmao..."union". We've all seen how "me too" issues for other groups follow the pilots' successes, or lack there of in negotiations. It's time to try something new. THis used to be not only a wonderfull "job"..but actually a fine way of life....no one can currently say any such, and it's largely "our" fault for letting sociopathic/greed-soaked corporate swine take this all from us. Alpo's a proven predator of the workforce. These are people who dress up, in halloween fashion, as "pilots" ...but never fly once they've achieved their olympian goals of attaining "NAtional" board status..and pocket ridiculous sums for doing..well...NOTHING usefull at all. It's time for them to GO

PS: In a "Perfect Universe"..we'd all work together as emplyees to ensure decent wages/benefits/et al. Given the limitations of the "human condition"/it's all for me/etc..I think that establishing different union leadership for our pilot group would at least be a beginning.

 

[nostradamus]

Perhaps, once the dust settles, we can see who was right and who was wrong in their estimates. If you get to PHX I will even by the first few rounds.

Thats a flight attendant offering to buy drinks for a pilot, very suspicious. Watch out for the f/a ex lax trick. If she gave one to junebug it would reduce his size by 83.4 percent.

 

[EastUS]

Thats a flight attendant offering to buy drinks for a pilot, very suspicious. Watch out for the f/a ex lax trick. If she gave one to junebug it would reduce his size by 83.4 percent.

Junebug's a "he"?. OK, no offence intended..I'd thought otherwise. Addendum: I mean that..I'm not wishing to offend..but I'd figured Junebug for a she. Even within the "Calling out any AWA punk to a sky engagement/wager" phase of my earlier rants...I'd not tossed any glove that way = can't beat up/take money from girls.

PS: : Like you should beyatch if any FA wants to buy?...Putz

 

[Junebug172]

Junebug's a "he"?. OK, no offence intended..I'd thought otherwise. Addendum: I mean that..I'm not wishing to offend..but I'd figured Junebug for a she. Even within the "Calling out any AWA punk to a sky engagement/wager" phase of my earlier rants...I'd not tossed any glove that way = can't beat up/take money from girls.

PS: : Like you should beyatch if any FA wants to buy?...Putz

What's/up/with/this/shitty/way/you/keep/typing?

It's f'ing/god damn annoying!

 

[EastUS]

What's/up/with/this/shitty/way/you/keep/typing?

It's f'ing/god damn annoying!

Sigh..so don't read it

 

[Junebug172]

2,500 pilots times $200 per pilot equals ????

I guarantee 2500 pilots did not send in money.

If you got a couple hundred I'd be shocked.

This coming from someone who has 10 hours phone conversations.