AWA ALPA Thread for the Week 9/14-9/20

[hp_fa]

We ALL will be paying the dues to USAPA by the East and West.

If you do not want to join then you will be billed to pay a slightly less fee but you lose your voting.
If you do not pay then the union will have the company to fire you.
So the West will be paying for it as well and Thank you in advance, Westies, for your dues monies

I will admit that I could be wrong, but me Ouija board leads me to differing prospective results then what you seem to suggest.

 

[EastUS]

Sure buys a comfortable bed though!!!

Speaking of entertainment, I love how some of your arrogant jerks came out to Scottsdale with your wives looking at houses. Or how about those of your telling UAL pilots how your were going to "fly your 747's for you."

Lots of honor and integrity there.

I've never seen a pilot group so hated by other pilots because of their arrogance and entitlement attitudes.

No one owes you guys anything.

"No one owes you guys anything."
Agreed dearie...The exact same thought comes to my mind as per your group's issues.

As per the arrogant jerks? = Can't claim to have been among them in Scottsdale, as you couldn't get me to live in a Gawd Awful freakin' desert for anything..never want to spend much time in any dang desert again..thank you very much.....not saying that I'm outside of membership in the "Arrogant Jerks Association" As per arrogance though?..How's it even possible for you guys to "think" like you seemingly do? In all of the positngs I've ever seen here...there's only been ONE that admitted that experience has value that I can recall.

 

[sharktooth]

Sure buys a comfortable bed though!!!

Speaking of entertainment, I love how some of your arrogant jerks came out to Scottsdale with your wives looking at houses. Or how about those of your telling UAL pilots how your were going to "fly your 747's for you."

Lots of honor and integrity there.

I've never seen a pilot group so hated by other pilots because of their arrogance and entitlement attitudes.

No one owes you guys anything.

As a slumlord in Scottsdale as well as the multiple entities in the greater PHX area I must say that you are really moronic in your comments.

About someone telling someone else they will fly their equipment for them, I can say that no one said that. I've got too many friends at UAL to let that lie pass. Name names or STFU, biotch.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

OK, in the spirit of your informative and extremely polite response let me ask the following:

1) Who would take the job as a President without a salary equating to the high double digits to cover what would have been covered by Flight Pay?

2) Who would be doing all the typing and grunt work that will be required to get out all the information? Do you envision having that many volunteers for the length of time that would be required? Most of the volunteers would have families who have emotional and supportive needs that require time?

3) I understand the theory that dues monies should not go for expense accounts that cover fancy restaurants and hotels. But do you really expect the volunteers to stay at Motel 6?

4) As someone else posted after our last exchange, how do you expect to pay the anticipated legal and other bills?

5) Do you really expect a significant number of West folks to pay dues to USAPA ** if ** USAPA is voted in? Do you believe that the Company would actually terminate pilots who refused to pay, especially if a large number of them refused to pay? The scenario I hint at here would also very likely cause larger legal bills to USAPA to attempt to enforce any such decision and action.

Those questions are a good start on the questions I would have for you.

Thank you for any responses you care to share and the pleasant tone of your last response.

1. Flight pay loss and expenses will cover the president to start. Notice I said FPL. Not abuse. We already have people lined up for the position on a interim basis until elections are held.
2. Most of the communications are envisioned electronically. Including the virtual voting. One person could cover that real easy. If paper printing is necessary volunteers can cover it. It's our union, why not support it?
3. Any overnights required by the individual will be at layover hotels. If not possible, one that is comparable.
4. Your assuming excess legal bills? The budget will be set according to needs. Like I said, dues should go down unless you have these unexpected legal fees. However, these fees are being planned for. IMO most of the excess lawsuits will be tossed for lack of merit. Plus, if it's determined to be frivolous, oh well we'll see what happens.
5.That's to be determined, we're not in yet with a new CBA. I am sure many out west will carry out their right to dissent. As I have said, we want their participation in making the new union work, but if they freely choose not to participate, then they would have no say in what transpires. ie Their voting rights.

Now, I am not in a leadership position with USAPA, I am one of the volunteers. What I just said is information that is public and some of it is my opinion formed from talking to the interim leaders. Will it be the benchmarks in the Contitution and ByLaws? Maybe. It would have to be voted on. Just please don't compare USAPA and ALPA structure as one and the same. It never will be by design.

 

[hp_fa]

My biggest concern, were I in your shoes, would be the accuracy of what is in point number 4.

I would expect a lot of legal bills and I don't see many, if any, of them being frivolous or without merit. In my opinion USAPA is potentially swimming upstream and even if they prevail I don't think that an award of attorneys' fees, costs and court costs would be awarded. Of course I am judging that before any legal documents are drafted in such a case, but I am not aware of any court that would deem West folks to be unjustifiably using the legal system to preserve what they believe they gained in arbitration.

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

Almost as interesting as Kirby stating in the latest PHX crew session that US Airways would have certainly been liquidated absent the merger. (Video on the Hub for you non believers). Let me see here, liquidation for the east and BK for the west...who had the better career expectation? I'll take BK. You guys are living proof AWA could have expected at least another ten years under Chp 11 before liquidating. Eye, this horse is so dead...ah forget it.

You will all be pleased to here this will be my last post discussing the seniority issue and possibly any issue. It's been a complete waste of time and energy trying to communicate and reason with most of you. After reading over the past weeks posts, I suggest all of you get a life and spend time enjoying it and less time bashing each other.

Consider this a parting farewell, wishing east and west pilots the best of luck. We may not be united anytime soon, but I hold no animosity toward those fighting for what they believe in - seniority. Although diametrically opposed, we share in that belief.

Cheers

Aw, pilots with three years don't have weekends off and can't be with their families. Hell, try 23 years! Interesting to hear Parker say without the merger "We would have been in bankrupcty..." Look, you Westies have been told the real deal, your management has told you that they will not allow you to cash your Nicolau "Lottery Ticket" -- what part of "this ain't happening" don't you get?

Later,
Eye

 

[Tiger 1050]

Aw, pilots with three years don't have weekends off and can't be with their families. Hell, try 23 years! Interesting to hear Parker say without the merger "We would have been in bankrupcty..."

Later,
Eye

Man! Too bad your experienced MC was unable to articulate that point to the arbiter.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

My biggest concern, were I in your shoes, would be the accuracy of what is in point number 4.

I would expect a lot of legal bills and I don't see many, if any, of them being frivolous or without merit. In my opinion USAPA is potentially swimming upstream and even if they prevail I don't think that an award of attorneys' fees, costs and court costs would be awarded. Of course I am judging that before any legal documents are drafted in such a case, but I am not aware of any court that would deem West folks to be unjustifiably using the legal system to preserve what they believe they gained in arbitration.

I am no lawyer, but IMO most of the expected lawsuits would be merged into a class action over the Nicolau award. The fees? That is your opinion. I have been a participant in some class action suits over the years, some of the outcomes were not allways what was expected. The only ones who won were the lawyers. If it means removing ALPA, bring it on. I'll take my chances.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Almost as interesting as Kirby stating in the latest PHX crew session that US Airways would have certainly been liquidated absent the merger. (Video on the Hub for you non believers). Let me see here, liquidation for the east and BK for the west...who had the better career expectation? I'll take BK. You guys are living proof AWA could have expected at least another ten years under Chp 11 before liquidating. Eye, this horse is so dead...ah forget it.

You will all be pleased to here this will be my last post discussing the seniority issue and possibly any issue. It's been a complete waste of time and energy trying to communicate and reason with most of you. After reading over the past weeks posts, I suggest all of you get a life and spend time enjoying it and less time bashing each other.

Consider this a parting farewell, wishing east and west pilots the best of luck. We may not be united anytime soon, but I hold no animosity toward those fighting for what they believe in - seniority. Although diametrically opposed, we share in that belief.

Cheers

Take care. Maybe we'll cross paths sometime and I'll buy you a cup of coffee.

 

[hp_fa]

I am no lawyer, but IMO most of the expected lawsuits would be merged into a class action over the Nicolau award.

I don't expect it to become a class action. The cases may get consolidated, but depending on who files what and on what grounds that is also a very open question.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

I don't expect it to become a class action. The cases may get consolidated, but depending on who files what and on what grounds that is also a very open question.

If it all pertains to one issue, then you might be right and they may get consolidated. So it is an open question. But it would still boil down to a single issue. And eventually a single lawsuit. Any more?

 

[hp_fa]

Not tonight. Have a good one.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Not tonight. Have a good one.

You too. If you have any more questions please pm me. We can continue if you want.

 

[USA320Pilot]

When considering whether or not USAPA has enough money, consider this:

2,500 pilots times $200 per pilot equals ????

That is enough to start a union. Then shortly after the election all US Airways and AWA pilots will be required to pay USAPA dues to fund the new union. The AWA pilots may not have to pay all of their dues, but they are required by law to pay a portion of their new union dues.

If a member goes into bad standing then they cannot vote on the new Constitution and By-Laws (and Merger Policy), which is o.k. with the East pilots and over 2,400 people who have submitted to USAPA Authorization Cards. In addition, the pilots in bad standing would not have normal representation.

There is no way out of this mess for the AWA pilots and the sooner they listen to the EC, Rice Committee, Doug Parker, and the US Airways MEC the sooner a deal can be reached that has "realistic solutions" to the Nicolau Award or the AWA pilots will be forced to pay USAPA union dues in the first quarter of 2008.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[EastUS]

Consider this a parting farewell, wishing east and west pilots the best of luck.
Cheers

Likewise Cactus. Without this mess?..We'd likely have been able to shake hands and find ample common ground for grins. Worst case would have been the standard Lunatic-who-lands-on-boats versus USAF puke diatribes. Take Care.