Article 4 Industry Comparable Pay rate

[Overspeed]

You're right Chuck. Throwing stones isn't fair. There are no great accomplishments I can quote that would satisfy what you feel would not constitute failure. You won't talk about what happened to AMFA at NWA so tell you what. Forget the TWU or AMFA. Give me one airline union that has been rolling in the field of accomplishments since 1978?

Who's the real winner out there before you go and look to make the change you feel can turn that around?

 
The TWU at AA have the highest paid MCTs in the industry. The TWU at SWA has the highest paid F/As in the industry.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 

Weaasles
 
So now its the BK, oil prices, less aircraft, deregulation, and just the industry but most of the TWU supporters say its the AMFA's fault they did not have the same things to deal with as every other union did?
 
You did not say but your a ramp guy YES/NO? You have all your sick time paid at full pay correct? How does your work force think about being Temp full time or what ever its called. How do your guys like working all the hrs they do just to stay afloat?
many work two jobs how do they like that as well. The TWU has lost so much for us here, that is the contention of aircraft maintenance, so we want a change. Its our right to ask for a vote. The leaders of the TWU should of listened to what we wanted over all the yrs and they would not be in this position now.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
The TWU at AA have the highest paid MCTs in the industry. The TWU at SWA has the highest paid F/As in the industry.

O/S
 
The TWU has the second lowest paid mechanics in the industry at AA.
 
This is for major players not commuters or regional types.

 

[Kev3188]

Who's the real winner out there...

Capital.

They're winning because we consistently let them.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
Leases are for ten years on some the A319/321 fleet. HC will be due before that time. Also many were purchased. The lie that is being spread by AMFA and weak TWU officers to scare TUL is just that ...a lie.
 
http://atwonline.com/airframes/american-airlines-buy-rather-lease-62-airbus-a320s

O/S
 
So why as a business decision did the company turn all its other aircraft into lease backs? Now your telling us that the company is buying aircraft and won't turn them into lease backs as well? Is that in writing if so please show us all so that the Tulsa and base mechanics can feel safe from outsourcing for the next 10 yrs.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
 
The same one that has been protecting TWU AMTs in the license protection and ASAP when they get in trouble with the FAA. Did you know that the all AMTs now participating in ASAP have the TWU to thank for pioneering this great safety program? If you have submitted an ASAP report than you would know how well it works and that the old way of fines, revocations, and fear that inhibited coming up with real solutions to safety problems. The TWU legal counsel helped write the program as it is currently applied to AMTs and now AMFA and IBT AMTs can thank the TWU for leading the charge for improved air safety and protecting AMT licenses at the same time.
 
Thanks TWU and thanks TWU legal counsel!
 
American Airlines, Transport Workers Union Announce FAA Renewal of Mechanics Aviation Safety Action Program
 
For the First Time Program Includes 'Just Culture' Provisions to Enhance Analysis of Root Causes of Events and Possible Mishaps Rather than Only Reported Incidents
 
 
FORT WORTH, Texas, June 4 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- American Airlines, in conjunction with the Transport Workers Union of America (TWU), today announced the renewal by the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), of the Aviation Safety Action Program (ASAP) for American's mechanics.
American and TWU have had a program in place for 11 years and with the FAA approved renewal of the program, ASAP will be extended for two more years. The TWU/American Airlines ASAP maintenance program is the longest running in U.S. commercial aviation.
 
ASAP is a safety partnership organized by American, the union, and the FAA, designed to encourage employees to voluntarily report safety-related information. The reports help identify potential precursors to serious safety incidents. For the first time in the program's history, the ASAP program will now have a "Just Culture" provision that will go beyond specific incidents and explore the systems, policies and procedures that may have contributed to an event or a possible incident.
 
"The benefits of having ASAP programs in place for our mechanics, as well as our flight attendants, dispatchers, and pilots cannot be overstated," said Peggy Sterling, American's Vice President - Safety, Security & Environmental. "The process is an incentive for employees to disclose issues that might not otherwise come to light, which then gives the company, the FAA, and the union the opportunity to analyze and respond to potential safety issues proactively."
 
According to Robert Gless, the AA System Coordinator and Assistant Director of TWU's Air Transport Division, "When it comes to passenger safety and security programs we stand shoulder to shoulder with American. We are very proud that our ASAP program is a model for the entire industry."
The information gathered in the ASAP reports will be analyzed jointly by an American representative, a representative from the TWU, and the FAA in order to develop and implement effective solutions to possible safety concerns. Addressing prospective safety concerns is essential to reducing future accidents and incidents.
 
The program is designed for employees to report safety-related issues through a non-punitive reporting process. Participation in ASAP is voluntary and confidential.

 

O/S
 
You throw the Seham name around so much tell us which Lawyer is being paid by the TWU Post it here what are you afraid of?
  
Which group of Lawyers is using my money instead of the TWU's to defend the TWU?

 

[WeAAsles]

Weaasles
 
So now its the BK, oil prices, less aircraft, deregulation, and just the industry but most of the TWU supporters say its the AMFA's fault they did not have the same things to deal with as every other union did?

Of course they did and even worse in many ways. They had no one to stand up for them when they needed it the most. But why? All they ever seem to do at least to me is try and raid other Unions. Who should stand up for an organization that raids there own? 
 
You did not say but your a ramp guy YES/NO? You have all your sick time paid at full pay correct? How does your work force think about being Temp full time or what ever its called. How do your guys like working all the hrs they do just to stay afloat?
many work two jobs how do they like that as well. The TWU has lost so much for us here, that is the contention of aircraft maintenance, so we want a change. Its our right to ask for a vote. The leaders of the TWU should of listened to what we wanted over all the yrs and they would not be in this position now.

Yes I am a ramp guy. Bob and Chuck can tell you who I am. I'll give you my name if you ask. I work in MIA also. Are my opinions less important to you now? I don't know anyone who's TEMP full time? We ALL lost our status protection in the BK. I was Full Time protected. Personally I only work 40 and I put 20% into my 401. But I live a little different by choice then others. Do they like it? Of course I'm sure they don't. That's the fault of the TWU too though I guess right?

If you get the cards to draw a vote that's your right and have at it. I just think you're blaming the wrong entity for all your woes and I wish you'd put in just a quarter of that energy to fight the real enemies out there. That may sound like a speech from a soapbox to you but it's the absolute truth. The TWU and whoever is sitting in that leather chair at the top is not your real enemy. That's simply how I see it.
 

 

[WeAAsles]

Capital.

They're winning because we consistently let them.

As the Fonz would say. Exactamundo.

 

[WeAAsles]

O/S
 
You throw the Seham name around so much tell us which Lawyer is being paid by the TWU Post it here what are you afraid of?
  
Which group of Lawyers is using my money instead of the TWU's to defend the TWU?

Amfaman we've been over this even though quite a few of you disagree. Why should the dues of a bus driver go towards a suit that is solely to our benefit? You think a bus driver wants to defend our equity lawsuit. Ask the bus driver what he thinks on that one?

Tell you what I'll make you a bet. When this is all over the total cost to each member won't even come out to 1% total after the case is thrown out for no merit? We both work in MIA. Lunch in any restaurant of your choice.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 

Weaasles
 
So now its the BK, oil prices, less aircraft, deregulation, and just the industry but most of the TWU supporters say its the AMFA's fault they did not have the same things to deal with as every other union did?

Of course they did and even worse in many ways. They had no one to stand up for them when they needed it the most. But why? All they ever seem to do at least to me is try and raid other Unions. Who should stand up for an organization that raids there own? 
 
You did not say but your a ramp guy YES/NO? You have all your sick time paid at full pay correct? How does your work force think about being Temp full time or what ever its called. How do your guys like working all the hrs they do just to stay afloat?
many work two jobs how do they like that as well. The TWU has lost so much for us here, that is the contention of aircraft maintenance, so we want a change. Its our right to ask for a vote. The leaders of the TWU should of listened to what we wanted over all the yrs and they would not be in this position now.

Yes I am a ramp guy. Bob and Chuck can tell you who I am. I'll give you my name if you ask. I work in MIA also. Are my opinions less important to you now? I don't know anyone who's TEMP full time? We ALL lost our status protection in the BK. I was Full Time protected. Personally I only work 40 and I put 20% into my 401. But I live a little different by choice then others. Do they like it? Of course I'm sure they don't. That's the fault of the TWU too though I guess right?

If you get the cards to draw a vote that's your right and have at it. I just think you're blaming the wrong entity for all your woes and I wish you'd put in just a quarter of that energy to fight the real enemies out there. That may sound like a speech from a soapbox to you but it's the absolute truth. The TWU and whoever is sitting in that leather chair at the top is not your real enemy. That's simply how I see it.
 

 

WeAAsles
 
Thank for admitting that you are NOT an A&P, also that AMFA had it worse in many ways.
 
You are incorrect on one thing though AMFA does not raid other unions. They do not have a organizing section at all.
 
We the mechanics at AA and at any other carrier who wants to bring in AMFA collect cards and do all the work required to solicit cards from the membership. That is what you have been lead to believe from the TWU. You say that your members don't like the fact they work two jobs, and that the fault of the TWU right? Your question?  So why when  AMFA has the same problem do you and all the other TWU supporters blame AMFA and NOT the Company or the circumstances? WHY?
 
I have fought the enemy as you call it I walked a picket line several times in my life. Have you? I am with my 5th carrier all the others are Gone due to Bk.
 
No I don't need your name or feel the need to ask chuck. You have no reason to have any say what we the mechanics do. If you feel you do its only because you feel the TWU will be weaker if we switch and GO to AMFA. What you don't realise is that no matter which union we get we the mechanics won't do to you what the ramp guys at NWA did to the AMFA guys. SCAB....

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Amfaman we've been over this even though quite a few of you disagree. Why should the dues of a bus driver go towards a suit that is solely to our benefit? You think a bus driver wants to defend our equity lawsuit. Ask the bus driver what he thinks on that one?

Tell you what I'll make you a bet. When this is all over the total cost to each member won't even come out to 1% total after the case is thrown out for no merit? We both work in MIA. Lunch in any restaurant of your choice.

 
 
WeAAsles
 
The TWU's airline division has its own budget. So the NY bus drivers won't have to pay a dime. The F/A's at SWA won't have to pay for us either. $7Mil dollars in dues per yr the aircraft maintenance div gets from us. Are the TWU scam Lawyers going to spend all that money ?  I think not...
 
Calculate what the ramp gives the TWU and ADD it to our $7Mill and see just what you think then.

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles
 
Thank for admitting that you are NOT an A&P, also that AMFA had it worse in any ways.

No problem. When people ask me a question I answer them.
 
You are incorrect on one thing though AMFA does not raid other unions. They do not have a organizing section at all.

Well they should get one and go after all those third party MRO's.
 
We the mechanics at AA and at any other carrier who wants to bring in AMFA collect cards and do all the work required to solicit cards from the membership. That is what you have been lead to believe from the TWU. You say that your members don't like the fact they work two jobs, and that the fault of the TWU right? Your question?  So why when  AMFA has the same problem do you and all the other TWU supporters blame AMFA and NOT the Company or the circumstances? WHY?

I haven't been lead to believe anything. I actually understand very well why you're angry at the TWU. I know all the stories. But I also was fortunate enough to get to know lots of people on the inside who told me things and helped me along. Can't stand the politics and they know that about me.

And sorry but no I don't blame the Union for people living beyond there means. That's there choice since they're lured by the shiny rock.

And uh oh my God do you think I blame AMFA over those scumbags who managed NWA? Hell NO bro. They were beyond screwed and taken advantage of.
 
 
I have fought the enemy as you call it I walked a picket line several times in my life. Have you? I am with my 5th carrier all the others are Gone due to Bk.

Tons of picket lines. And even stood before the Mayor of Miami to plead our case about the BK. 2 other clerks showed up besides me. Got a bad taste in my mouth on personal accountability after that one.
 
No I don't need your name or feel the need to ask chuck. You have no reason to have any say what we the mechanics do. If you feel you do its only because you feel the TWU will be weaker if we switch and GO to AMFA. What you don't realise is that no matter which union we get we the mechanics won't do do you what the ramp guys at NWA did to the AMFA guys. SCAB....

Actually I'll let you in on something. Some of the people I know want me to leave you guys alone. They believe if you get AMFA that it's only a matter of time before you're all seriously screwed and we can get more at the cost of your misery? Those people make me sick actually. Yes I do believe that we're stronger together and I wish the whole freakin industry was under ONE union. The companies love all this division. Problem is we have too many people in every workgroup who have the need to want to look down on someone else. Yes believe it or not even FSC's look down on others too.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
 
WeAAsles
 
The TWU's airline division has its own budget. So the NY bus drivers won't have to pay a dime. The F/A's at SWA won't have to pay for us either. $7Mil dollars in dues per yr the aircraft maintenance div gets from us. Are the TWU scam Lawyers going to spend all that money ?  I think not...
 
Calculate what the ramp gives the TWU and ADD it to our $7Mill and see just what you think then.

Alright I'll modify the comment. A SWA Flight Attendant doesn't want to pay for us.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Alright I'll modify the comment. A SWA Flight Attendant doesn't want to pay for us.

WeAAsles
 
Just calculate the money the ramp pays the TWU add it to the $7MIL we in maintenance do and then ask your self why the TWU is holding OUR MONEY?
 
When I asked about walking a picket line how many companies have you worked for that it was necessary to walk the line. Not support walk, fight walk. Big difference there, the TWU has let my craft and craft career go into the toilet, NO Fight, just lies... I and others are tired of we'll getem next time....
 
I too walked with NWA and many others.
 
Now you don't have to wonder why we in Maintenance want the TWU GONE.
 
You ask why doesn't AMFA go after the MRO's whats wrong with the BIG and powerful TWU/IAM/IBT? Why should it be AMFA's fight and not the big unions? Its not AMFA's way to have a organizing Div. that costs money and you know as well as I do that they are just not big enough YET... maybe if we here at AA get them and another carrier joins us we will be able to bring that to AMFA.  Til then we the mechanics will just have to doit.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

 
 
The same one that has been protecting TWU AMTs in the license protection and ASAP when they get in trouble with the FAA. Did you know that the all AMTs now participating in ASAP have the TWU to thank for pioneering this great safety program? If you have submitted an ASAP report than you would know how well it works and that the old way of fines, revocations, and fear that inhibited coming up with real solutions to safety problems. The TWU legal counsel helped write the program as it is currently applied to AMTs and now AMFA and IBT AMTs can thank the TWU for leading the charge for improved air safety and protecting AMT licenses at the same time.
 

 
Pioneering??? ...... Sorry, gonna call BS on this one.
 
American Airlines was only one of several airlines involved in the initial FAA programs, at that time called demonstration ASAPs.