Article 4 Industry Comparable Pay rate

[CMH_GSE]

You're putting the cart before the horse. Just because the single operating certificate would be in place does not mean we will have a new contract. Negotiations can take years. Look at UA/CO. How many years have they been negotiating and they HAVE THE SAME UNION? This could drag on until our current contract expires.

The important part of Overspeeds post was : when we are under a SOC, US Airways no longer exits and CANNOT be included in the average that the company will bring our pay up to.
That will only include Delta and United and that , even right now, is a significant raise over where we are.

None of this is redemption for the TWU in my eyes, I want nothing to do with the "alliance", but it is a good raise , contrary to what some on here have been saying in this thread.

 

[Vortilon]

Gents,
 
I spoke with a Station Manager who went to the big meeting this past week in Dallas with Paul Wroble, the VP of Line Maintenance and all of the big mucky mucks from around the AA system.  Word is, they believe that AMFA has a legitimate opportunity to supplant the TWU at AA because of all their lies and misgivings.  Additionally, I was told that the new AA management does not want this "Two headed TWU/IAM snake".  They said they would rather deal with one union or the other.  Effectively, the AFLCIO has screwed both TWU and the IAM.  The TWU, IAM and IBT deception last year could not have played out better.  This was music to our ears.
 
 
 
 
AMFA NOW More THAN Ever

 
Hey, it's human nature to want to believe what appears to be positive news.  Paul Wroble was at NWA during the AMFA strike there, he is no friend of labor.  From what I heard about Wroble from somebody who knew him at NWA, Wroble came off as an arrogant jackass.  Which explains his departure from Delta shortly after the merge.  Word was he couldn't adapt, and was asked to leave.  Either way, we need to get the AMFA in at AA ASAP.

 

[AANYER]

Vortilon,
 
You nailed it. Let's get ur done.
 
 
 
AMFA Now More Than Ever

 

[Chuck Schalk]

The important part of Overspeeds post was : when we are under a SOC, US Airways no longer exits and CANNOT be included in the average that the company will bring our pay up to.
That will only include Delta and United and that , even right now, is a significant raise over where we are.

None of this is redemption for the TWU in my eyes, I want nothing to do with the "alliance", but it is a good raise , contrary to what some on here have been saying in this thread.

The language for comparable wage adjustment is as follows:
For AMT’s, Crew Chiefs, Tech Crew Chiefs and Inspectors: At September 12, 2012+36 months, a calculation will be made to determine the maximum regular hourly pay rate (i.e., base pay plus all relevant premiums) of the line mechanics at Delta, United, and US Airways in effect on that date.
 
It is not clear in the langauge how the soc affects the wage comparison.  the language refers to regular hourly rate of pay in effect on that date. Are the US Air mechanics working under the us air hourly rate in effect at that time?  The jury is out and how that will play out. I know it sounds like they can't use US Air wages under SOC but I have seen stranger things happen with TWU language

 

[MetalMover]

The important part of Overspeeds post was : when we are under a SOC, US Airways no longer exits and CANNOT be included in the average that the company will bring our pay up to.
 

Don't be too sure. How many "THEY CAN DO THAT BROTHERS" have you heard from the TWU.

 

[WeAAsles]

There is one area that some may have missed in the reading of the language to Article 4? The addition of the phrase (or their successors) that is written in the language. The name of AA was kept under the merger so they would be the successor to the former USAIR name and employees, and the rates paid to them. At least how I read it?

The average would take the 4 top base rates of AA (former US) UAL and DAL plus longevity, license and line and those would be factored into the equation for the new AA rate of pay.

BUT it could also be since we may have the SOC by then as Overspeed has brought up the former USAIR rate would no longer apply as the top rate since as a merged entity the top rate is AA's rate as a single company? The (successor) language could have meant if they were bought by a separate entity aside from our own company?

This is one that we should look for clarification on.

 

[swamt]

Stop responding to Overspeed guys.  He is here to deflect and try and change minds and thoughts on the TWU.  It is time to fire the twu at AA.  Take action, get involved, and get rewarded.  AMFA at AA in 2014...

 

[iluvaa]

Do you really think anyone on here's mind is going to be changed LOL we are the same group of guys arguing amongst ourselves and no ones mind is going to changed on this board.

 

[Overspeed]

Stop responding to Overspeed guys.  He is here to deflect and try and change minds and thoughts on the TWU.  It is time to fire the twu at AA.  Take action, get involved, and get rewarded.  AMFA at AA in 2014...

 
Rewarded with...an unemployment check.

 

[WeAAsles]

Stop responding to Overspeed guys.  He is here to deflect and try and change minds and thoughts on the TWU.  It is time to fire the twu at AA.  Take action, get involved, and get rewarded.  AMFA at AA in 2014...

Yes ignore anyone who has a different opinion or set of facts when deciding a choice that could be or become very important to you and your family in the future.

Now THAT is precisely why the company always seems to win. They rely on those that prefer to remain uneducated and take full advantage of you for it.

Whatever choice you make in the future is your own. But if you don't make that choice with every bit of information you can find then you've made a fools choice and it could easily come back to bite you in the ass.

 

[1AA]

The important part of Overspeeds post was : when we are under a SOC, US Airways no longer exits and CANNOT be included in the average that the company will bring our pay up to.
That will only include Delta and United and that , even right now, is a significant raise over where we are.

None of this is redemption for the TWU in my eyes, I want nothing to do with the "alliance", but it is a good raise , contrary to what some on here have been saying in this thread.

Yes and the agreement in place will remain if we change unions. So if AMFA represents us they are by law bound to enforce the current agreement. The mid term wage adjustment is by no means to give the TWU or the Alliance a free pass. The TWU must go. No if, ands or buts. The only Buts is the swift kick in the BUTT out the door for the TWU.

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes and the agreement in place will remain if we change unions. So if AMFA represents us they are by law bound to enforce the current agreement. The mid term wage adjustment is by no means to give the TWU or the Alliance a free pass. The TWU must go. No if, ands or buts. The only Buts is the swift kick in the BUTT out the door for the TWU.

Oh wouldn't they be so lucky to have a contract like that they can inherit. What a feather in the cap that would be huh.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Oh wouldn't they be so lucky to have a contract like that they can inherit. What a feather in the cap that would be 

Really?
 
 
As many of you are aware, our present TWU contract provides us with a wage adjustment next year (2015) that was designed to bring us up to the average of our peers. The TWU wants this to appear as a creative benefit that was provided for us. Your AMFA Organizers want you to know that this is far from the truth. The TWU is following AMFA’s lead at Alaska Airlines.
The following is an annual wage adjustment that was provided to the AMFA represented mechanics at Alaska Airlines. History shows that AMFA has a record of being at the forefront of implementing these types of ideas.
Even back in the 1960’s AMFA provided Ozark Airlines mechanics with the first license premium. This is the outside the box type of thinking we want to bring here to AA, and what we can expect from AMFA. As you will see below the Alaska formula is superior to ours.
 
[SIZE=18pt]ASA Annual Wage Review   [/SIZE]
 
On September 30th 2013, Alaska and AMFA met in accordance with the terms of Article 23, to initiate discussion for the annual wage review. Both sides reviewed and agreed to all data/information used in this review. This looks at Alaska’s (all in) wages compared to the seven carriers referred to in the contract.
 
Here are those rates;
 

1. SouthWest $43.89
2. Delta $38.28
3. JetBlue $30.00
4. Alaska $37.24
5. United $36.92
6. American $34.41
7. Frontier $32.37

 
With the mid point average being at $36.21 and AS being above that rate no additional increase was required, above the annual 1.5%. AMFA then went into an internal review.
Looking at the other work groups at Alaska and how they ranked with regard to their industry peers. AMFA mechanics at Alaska were rated (forth), AMFA then determined they should be at the same ranking as the other work groups at AS. With that said an additional 2.8% would be required to reflect this position (Third) for the Alaska mechanics.  We believe that this forward thinking approach is what provides the assurances our members require.
 
Note: that the TWU made us wait 3 years for a wage review in our 2012 CBA while AMFA negotiated a yearly wage review.

 

[CMH_GSE]

Yes and the agreement in place will remain if we change unions. So if AMFA represents us they are by law bound to enforce the current agreement. The mid term wage adjustment is by no means to give the TWU or the Alliance a free pass. The TWU must go. No if, ands or buts. The only Buts is the swift kick in the BUTT out the door for the TWU.

And to add, American is also bound by law to enforce the current agreement if we have NO union.

 

[WeAAsles]

Really?
 
 
As many of you are aware, our present TWU contract provides us with a wage adjustment next year (2015) that was designed to bring us up to the average of our peers. The TWU wants this to appear as a creative benefit that was provided for us. Your AMFA Organizers want you to know that this is far from the truth. The TWU is following AMFA’s lead at Alaska Airlines.
The following is an annual wage adjustment that was provided to the AMFA represented mechanics at Alaska Airlines. History shows that AMFA has a record of being at the forefront of implementing these types of ideas.
Even back in the 1960’s AMFA provided Ozark Airlines mechanics with the first license premium. This is the outside the box type of thinking we want to bring here to AA, and what we can expect from AMFA. As you will see below the Alaska formula is superior to ours.
 
[SIZE=18pt]ASA Annual Wage Review   [/SIZE]
 
On September 30th 2013, Alaska and AMFA met in accordance with the terms of Article 23, to initiate discussion for the annual wage review. Both sides reviewed and agreed to all data/information used in this review. This looks at Alaska’s (all in) wages compared to the seven carriers referred to in the contract.
 
Here are those rates;
 

1. SouthWest $43.89
2. Delta $38.28
3. JetBlue $30.00
4. Alaska $37.24
5. United $36.92
6. American $34.41
7. Frontier $32.37

 
With the mid point average being at $36.21 and AS being above that rate no additional increase was required, above the annual 1.5%. AMFA then went into an internal review.
Looking at the other work groups at Alaska and how they ranked with regard to their industry peers. AMFA mechanics at Alaska were rated (forth), AMFA then determined they should be at the same ranking as the other work groups at AS. With that said an additional 2.8% would be required to reflect this position (Third) for the Alaska mechanics.  We believe that this forward thinking approach is what provides the assurances our members require.
 
Note: that the TWU made us wait 3 years for a wage review in our 2012 CBA while AMFA negotiated a yearly wage review.

Chuck I like this. I really do. I think it's very important to know the base rate that our peers are earning yearly. But what about all the other associated costs?

What is the actual value to each indivdual member. IE pay and benefits in connection to their peers?

What is the overall total cost to the company for each member as a percentage to their peers and their fleet size?

How many members on average are at the top out rate and how long does it take to reach that scale in comparison to the industry average?

How much work is within the parameters of each individual companies SCOPE and how many professionals are actually performing those functions?

What is the ability of the companies to farm out work and what percentages of work continue to remain in house in comparison to the industry as a whole?

It's beyond easy to quote the base rate and you know that I know you know this very well. (That was a little out there) C'mon Chuck from when I was on here in the past with you. Is this really the way that you would want your team to win the fight? Because from the things I've read lately that's all this seems like to me. We want to win!!!!