Article 4 Industry Comparable Pay rate

[swamt]

Overspeed, you are so full of shite it's pathetic.  The TWU has been AGREEING to concessions from way back in 1983.  The TWU has AGREED to more concessions, job losses, pay reductions, pension reductions, rif's, and members relocations than ANY AMFA represented carrier out there--PERIOD!!!
No one out here believes you or even considers your views or statements as fact, "NO-ONE"   You are simply here to deflect (ONCE AGAIN) any kind of AMFA drive at AA. Pack your bags little puppet and move on,  AMFA will prevail in 2014 at AA.  You look like an idiot, just like WT over in the other threads about LF gates.  Get over it dude, the TWU will be fired by the membership this time around  I promise you this.  And would you like to make a wager on it???  You name it, and I will wager it.  AMFA at AA in 2014...

 

[Kev3188]

Organized labor is beleaguered – a fraction of their former strength in the private sector, divided by inter-generational warfare between retirees and current employees, with fewer friends on Capitol Hill, and facing the harsh reality that the victories won by legendary figures like the UAW’s Walter Ruether are unsustainable in today’s economy. Indeed, unions in these core sectors of the economy are facing threats to their institutional survival.

Unsustainable according to who?

Maybe the better question to ask is: why (and how) have we allowed ourselves to be messaged into submission? Where is the direct action?

Strike threats ring hollow when the company can show the entire enterprise will crater without a new deal.

Strike threats ring hollow when you have leaders that place "business unionism" and empire building (take a bow, Jim Little) ahead of advancing worker's interests.

A more labor-friendly Congress or President might help...

Yeah, it might, but it's not something labor should be counting on in the near term.

In the face of a harsh bargaining climate, where the steady gains over the past five decades are at risk, what can unions do to counter these pressures?

How 'bout what their respective memberships pay them to do?

Such articles are written to make you feel powerless, "its inevitable" so you do not resist, its an old tactic and very effective. Millions who were subjected to such mind games simply walked into the showers.

^This^

AMFA will prevail in 2014 at AA.

I'd like to see AA AMT's take back control of their careers, so I certainly hope you're right.

...Maybe it's finally bad enough for enough people to turn things around...

 

[john john]

Sharon Levine is also part of the organization, she also makes millions off this scam. None of them want to see this scam end, they are all getting rich off it.

700 use to love quoting this IAM lawyer on the inability to strike.He must have her work on file

 

[700UW]

And the courts upheld that you cant strike.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.

 

[WeAAsles]

"old economy industries" well the Maritime industry is thousands of years older than the Airline industry. People navigated in hollowed out logs and skin covered canoes long before the wheel, let a lone the wing, was invented, yet workers in those industries have fared better than most. How do they do it? Simple, when they have a problem they make sure the employer also has a problem and when the employer has problems so does everyone who is reliant on the goods that get transported through their joint efforts.

I think the ports are a little more insulated than airplanes that can move anywhere needed to be repaired. Hard to compare a Freighter to an airplane.

Time after time what have we done when we had a problem? Did we make sure that the employer had problems? No, we complain and look for a savior but we don't do anything to make the boss believe there is a problem. Well if he knows he can take whatever he wants and he wont have problems then what do you expect he will do? He will continue to take until he does have problems. They aren't done taking, they wont stop, until there is a problem.

Agreed but we aren't like France where one work group who calls a Strike will be supported by all. We have too many in our own ranks who believe they are privileged and should be making more than someone else. We have our own version of class warfare among the blue collar ranks. And until we learn to help any and every worker all the way down to that guy working at McDonalds and Walmart, who's going to care about what's being taken from us. Why should they?

 

[WeAAsles]

ABI, an organization of lawyers who make billions by helping companies screw over their workers in bankruptcy. One of the board members belongs to the same firm as Marshall S Huester(Davis, Pol and Wardell) who testified against the pilots efforts to have Airline workers included under the RLA and sect 1167 in C-11 filings. No doubt they also coached the anti-labor politicians who also attacked the pilots efforts. Not exactly a pro-labor source. Sharon Levine is also part of the organization, she also makes millions off this scam. None of them want to see this scam end, they are all getting rich off it.

Such articles are written to make you feel powerless, "its inevitable" so you do not resist, its an old tactic and very effective. Millions who were subjected to such mind games simply walked into the showers.

Of course it's an anti Labor article. Best way to understand your enemy is to read what they write. But it's also true in many ways. The direct line of decline among the Union member ranks is also a direct line to the vanishing Middle Class and pay.

People are powerless because they've insulated themselves to their neighbors and what others are going through. Too many don't care about anyone but themselves. the ship is finally turning though it seems. I have seen more interest obviously in the fight against the minimum wage and income inequality so there may be hope. But everyone needs to get involved and stop being selfish and self centered. We don't live in a vacuum. 

 

[WeAAsles]

Unsustainable according to who?

Unsustainable when those who purchase your product are too poor to afford it.

Maybe the better question to ask is: why (and how) have we allowed ourselves to be messaged into submission? Where is the direct action?

Because we have morons among our own ranks who watch and believe the things being sold to them by the likes of FOX news. Turn off your TV's and start reading and researching.


Strike threats ring hollow when you have leaders that place "business unionism" and empire building (take a bow, Jim Little) ahead of advancing worker's interests.

Strike threats are hollow because people live way beyond their means and will tell you that they just can't afford to do it. They've made themselves into economic slaves. How can any Union fight against that?


Yeah, it might, but it's not something labor should be counting on in the near term.


How 'bout what their respective memberships pay them to do?

Without support it really doesn't matter how much they're paid.


^This^



I'd like to see AA AMT's take back control of their careers, so I certainly hope you're right.

...Maybe it's finally bad enough for enough people to turn things around...

Maybe? But we have to start fighting for others as well as ourselves if that movement you want is ever going to happen. We have to dump our own versions of class warfare. Insulating ourselves is just plain stupid and exactly what big business wants us to do.

 

[737823]

700 use to love quoting this IAM lawyer on the inability to strike.He must have her work on file

 


 

Show me where it says you can strike?

The court ruled they cant strike, thats the bottom line. You post mistruths all the time.

Can you not read and comprehend Bob?

There was NO section 1113 when Lorenzo went into chapter 11 and had all the CBAs wiped out and union certification.

I mean are you that ignorant?

Section 1113 was created in part due to what Lorenzo did at CO.

Seriously Bob, its so interesting that a labor leader post lies and doesnt post the truth and I know you knew exactly that there was no Section 1113 when CO went into chapter 11 with Lorenzo.

And I know Sharon told you that Bankruptcy law trumps the RLA and the court system has agreed.

 

 

I think you are obtuse.

Show me one lie, you are just like Overspeed.

I write one thing and you claim that I wrote something else, and then say I'm wrong or I lied.

Imagine that, someone who claims to be a labor leader saying that unless a law explicitly says you have the right to strike that you cant strike, its the opposite, the right to strike exists unless there is a specific restriction against it.

The RLA says that if carriers unilaterally change rates of pay or working conditions workers under the RLA can strike, other than BK how else could a carrier legally unilaterally change pay and working conditions? Legislation says we can strike but a Judicial decision says we cant sttike until we exhaust the Section 6 process.


Sharon told us no such thing because its not true. The laws are equal, however the appelate courts ruling trumps the law, and it wasnt the BK court that made the ruling.

First off I didnt say that 1113 existed back in 1983, you say I said it.

Are you sure the Unions were decertified by the Judge? Their contracts with the company was wiped out and maybe Lorenzo refused to negotiate with the Union but thats not a decertification. The members decertify, not the company. Are you claiming that BK courts have the right to decertify unions as the Collective Bargaining Agent? Once again, show me where 1113 says that workers can not strike if their contract is abrogated. I know that there was no 1113 in 1983 but show me where it says that Unions cant strike if their contract is abrogated. Even the judge in the NWA BK case said they could strike, it was another court that issued the injunction, you should know that.

You did go through this twice right?

You admitted a while back that you left USAIR, after you helped usher in two rounds of concessions, so who do you work for now?

 

 
Josh

 

[WeAAsles]

Oh and Bob. The maritime industry is doing just fine huh?

"The Pilots Association has drawn a parallel between the risk Norwegian poses and what's happened to the U.S. maritime industry, which allows a vessel to be registered in a country different from its ownership and operate under the laws of the country of registry. "The practice precipitated the decline of the industry and the loss of tens of thousands of U.S. maritime jobs, as companies flew the flag of countries with the weakest labor and tax laws and regulations," the association said in a statement."

http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2014/05/08/pilots-norwegian-air-labor/?source=yahoo_quote

 

[700UW]

Hey stalker,

The courts ruled against the NW FAS and prohibited them from striking because the CBA was abrogated.


Don't let the facts get in your way.

 

[737823]

Hey stalker, The courts ruled against the NW FAS and prohibited them from striking because the CBA was abrogated. Don't let the facts get in your way.

 
 
Tell john john and Bob that.  john john can't get over the CWA T/A with $500 signing bonus and allowed non-covered people to perform their work.
 
Josh

 

[700UW]

Are you that obtuse?

I don't have to tell Bob anything, he knows and I have posted the link to the case.

The courts have ruled upon a CBA abrogation, that they are not permitted to strike and the courts have ruled section 1167 of the RLA only applies to railroads. Once again don't let the facts get in your way.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
 
Tell john john and Bob that.  john john can't get over the CWA T/A with $500 signing bonus and allowed non-covered people to perform their work.
 
Josh

 
 
Josh
 
 
??????
 
 
I thought you said that you would stay off subjects related to mechanics?
 
 
You are a financial guy start a thread about the 401 k or the pensions of unions some thing that you know about.

 

[737823]

 
 
Josh
 
 
??????
 
 
I thought you said that you would stay off subjects related to mechanics?
 
 
You are a financial guy start a thread about the 401 k or the pensions of unions some thing that you know about.

 
Sorry I didn't realize this was specific to M&R, will stay out as we agreed.
 
Josh

 

[Overspeed]

ABI, an organization of lawyers who make billions by helping companies screw over their workers in bankruptcy. One of the board members belongs to the same firm as Marshall S Huester(Davis, Pol and Wardell) who testified against the pilots efforts to have Airline workers included under the RLA and sect 1167 in C-11 filings. No doubt they also coached the anti-labor politicians who also attacked the pilots efforts. Not exactly a pro-labor source. Sharon Levine is also part of the organization, she also makes millions off this scam. None of them want to see this scam end, they are all getting rich off it.

Such articles are written to make you feel powerless, "its inevitable" so you do not resist, its an old tactic and very effective. Millions who were subjected to such mind games simply walked into the showers.

 
So using your example of WW2, the mindless ramblings about an elite class of people built those showers and led a world to war where millions died. Stick to the facts that pertain to the issue being discussed. The Art 4 CBA language is sound and will protect our members wages.
 
Your ability to use extreme examples shows how you will resort to anything to draw people away from being pragmatic about the issues facing labor. Using our minds to differentiate between misdirection and the path that will pay competive wages for our skills that we provide is what we need to do.