Article 4 Industry Comparable Pay rate

[Overspeed]

He does know what is going on O/S, and much more than you do, period...

 
I think your SWA hot pants and go-go boots are on too tight...just sayin'

 

[Overspeed]

 
O/S
 
For you to put into words what all of us have been saying for yrs is just priceless.
 
So if we have the same Ole SCAMS then it must be the culture of the TWU.
 
If what you say is, "Truly how you feel"  then Support us, lets bring a VOTE here at AA.
 
You have the right to Vote for the TWU that You support but why are you trying to deny us our chance to VOTE. 

 
I have not suppressed the right to vote. I encourage it as long as the facts are out there. I personally feel that AMFA when given the chnace has performed far below what they said they would deliver.

 

[1AA]

 
I have not suppressed the right to vote. I encourage it as long as the facts are out there. I personally feel that AMFA when given the chnace has performed far below what they said they would deliver.

And so has the TWU so what is your point?

 

[Chuck Schalk]

 
I have not suppressed the right to vote. I encourage it as long as the facts are out there. I personally feel that AMFA when given the chnace has performed far below what they said they would deliver.

 
is that so?    you may feel something, but it is undeniable that the TWU has under delivered,scammed, and failed in protecting our careers.
 
what does the TWU have planned for our future to protect our careers?
 
Give us some kind of inkling of what the TWU ATD will do to save our careers?
 
Or are they just going to sit back and administer the management CBA we have?
 
what can we expect from the TWU to enhance our careers?
 
tell us oh great one Overpsun..........

 

[Duke787]

I don't understand over speeds loyalty to the TWU. Besides the obvious the TWU wants an alliance with the IAM, that just gives the appearance of two old industrial unions protecting their income with our dues.

The biggest is the TWU taking equity from us, that is inexcusable, is that even legal.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
I have not suppressed the right to vote. I encourage it as long as the facts are out there. I personally feel that AMFA when given the chnace has performed far below what they said they would deliver.

 
 
O/S
 
TWU made several statements even in a TV report that they would fight like hell and dig deep into aa pockets.
 
Well what happened there?
 
I would say that the TWU has for many yrs has fallen far below the standards set by any union.
 
Then by your statement that you encourage a VOTE, we here on this Forum can expect to see you supporting the chance to vote.
 
I, along with others should be able to read this throghout the many threds that you post into correct?  Y or N?

 

[Overspeed]

O/S
 
TWU made several statements even in a TV report that they would fight like hell and dig deep into aa pockets.
 
Well what happened there?
 
I would say that the TWU has for many yrs has fallen far below the standards set by any union.
 
Then by your statement that you encourage a VOTE, we here on this Forum can expect to see you supporting the chance to vote.
 
I, along with others should be able to read this throghout the many threds that you post into correct?  Y or N?

I encourage the right to vote. I also encourage the right of members to know the facts before they sign a card as well.

I won't sign a card just to get a vote. That is my right as well is it not?

 

[Overspeed]

And so has the TWU so what is your point?

My point is the TWU did a better job than others especially during the BK proceedings.

As far as unions go, they are getting beat up by corporate America.

 

[Overspeed]

I don't understand over speeds loyalty to the TWU. Besides the obvious the TWU wants an alliance with the IAM, that just gives the appearance of two old industrial unions protecting their income with our dues.
The biggest is the TWU taking equity from us, that is inexcusable, is that even legal.

The equity debacle is a mess. The formula was too confusing and the committee made it sound like they denied the early outs any stock because they believe they voted yes on CBA. If that's so then they made a mistake and the retirees will probably end up with stock.

I sent an email to GP and the answer I got was he took himself off the committee. Why? Is he regretting his words from the meetings where he told us the early outs got their bite of the apple?

 

[Bob Owens]

 
I believe the staff position is now held by Doyle not GP. GP represents less than half of what the ATD M&R staff representative is responsible for. You really don't know what is going on around you do you?

Maybe you should read your own post and reread mine because you seem to have read something that wasn't there, as usual. 
 
You rationalized that because one union has more members that the officials in that union should make more than a union that has fewer members. The only people that believe such tripe are people who run large unions. Normally a union officials pay is driven as a premium over what they would make on the floor. Using your logic the President of the APA should earn less as President than he would as a Pilot because he has less than 20,000 members. 

 

[Overspeed]

Maybe you should read your own post and reread mine because you seem to have read something that wasn't there, as usual. 
 
You rationalized that because one union has more members that the officials in that union should make more than a union that has fewer members. The only people that believe such tripe are people who run large unions. Normally a union officials pay is driven as a premium over what they would make on the floor. Using your logic the President of the APA should earn less as President than he would as a Pilot because he has less than 20,000 members. 

 
Nope I got it. Little represented and kept 110,000 members working. OV represented over 25,000 members and lost all but 3000 of them.
 
OV got a fat one time $500K annuity for all his hard work of losing all those members. Little got the same pension that all Int'l officers get even now and he kept all of them working. My logic is not flawed. Now hopefully GP will enforce the contract and get us gain sharing, our equity stake that is being held back, our retiree prefund match, and get us a JCBA we can be proud of. Then he will deserve the pay he gets.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

 
Nope I got it. Little represented and kept 110,000 members working. OV represented over 25,000 members and lost all but 3000 of them.
 
OV got a fat one time $500K annuity for all his hard work of losing all those members. Little got the same pension that all Int'l officers get even now and he kept all of them working. My logic is not flawed. Now hopefully GP will enforce the contract and get us gain sharing, our equity stake that is being held back, our retiree prefund match, and get us a JCBA we can be proud of. Then he will deserve the pay he gets.

 
spekaing of TWU pensions, what is the mulitpler used for the TWU pensions?  what is the salary they use for the multiplyer?  what is the approx payout per month for the recently departed TWU ATD officers? 
don't plead you don't know...........tell everyone what they get or you are holding back
 
then lets compare that to OV and see who gets more?
 
if the return is 6% on the 500K that would equal $30,000 a year pension, how is that a fat pension?
 
That 500k stays with AMFA after payments stop to OV.  

 

[Overspeed]

 
spekaing of TWU pensions, what is the mulitpler used for the TWU pensions?  what is the salary they use for the multiplyer?  what is the approx payout per month for the recently departed TWU ATD officers? 
don't plead you don't know...........tell everyone what they get or you are holding back
 
then lets compare that to OV and see who gets more?
 
if the return is 6% on the 500K that would equal $30,000 a year pension, how is that a fat pension?
 
That 500k stays with AMFA after payments stop to OV.  

 
Chuck read the 2008 LM2. Delle was PAID out the money as a lump sum to purchase an annuity. You are way wrong on this one. The money can't stay with AMFA if the check has been cashed as Delle walked. Does anyone at AMFA get a lump sum pension pay out? No. AMFA scammed the membership after the killed the pensions of all their members at NWA and thousands more at UAL and AS that lost their jobs forever.
 
 

SCHEDULE 11 - ALL OFFICERS AND DISBURSEMENTS TO OFFICERS

FILE NUMBER: 000-302


 

(A)
Name

(B)
Title

(C)
Status

(D)
Gross Salary
Disbursements
(before any
deductions)

(E)
Allowances
Disbursed

(F)
Disbursements for Official Business

(G)
Other
Disbursements not reported in
(D) through (F)

(H)
TOTAL

A
B
C

Delle-Femine,  Olivio   V
Director
P

$558,494

$0

$1,900

$0

$560,394

 
And think AMFA would have done better than the TWU. Think again. At UAL they rolled and Delle stated the same thing that Little said when we headed in to BK.
 
"The union is working in the worst of industry environments, battling a seemingly inexorable trend toward outsourcing airplane maintenance to third parties. For the first time in its history, AMFA gave in to concessions, signing a contract in May with bankrupt United Airlines to give it $96 million in pay cuts and other givebacks. The union had a gun to its head, Mr. Delle-Femine explained, and risked much worse before a bankruptcy judge."
 

 

[Bob Owens]

 
Nope I got it. Little represented and kept 110,000 members working. OV represented over 25,000 members and lost all but 3000 of them.
 
OV got a fat one time $500K annuity for all his hard work of losing all those members. Little got the same pension that all Int'l officers get even now and he kept all of them working. My logic is not flawed. Now hopefully GP will enforce the contract and get us gain sharing, our equity stake that is being held back, our retiree prefund match, and get us a JCBA we can be proud of. Then he will deserve the pay he gets.

Jim little kept 110,000 people working? The only thing he did was nearly bankrupt the union with real estate scams and say yes to any concession that AA wanted. When the Unions funds started getting tight he didn't cut pay and benefits he cut heads. Different ideology when it comes to his paycheck. We got the absolute worst deal in BK, we paid triple what the pilots paid for equity and gave up profit sharing. The grievance has been filed on the gain sharing and of course the prefund match is also being held up due to poorly written language. Why agree to tie in our match to the 1114 process, one thing had nothing to do with the other? thank the big man again. gain sharing? Another one of his babies, we promise to make AA number one in the industry with the wosrt contract in the industry and then lets sit together and figure out what we get in return. Speaking of the big man, doesn't he also get the option to buy out his TWU pension?  How many TWU members feel that he deserves a six figure windfall, plus his pension based on the pay reported by the union?

 

[Overspeed]

Jim little kept 110,000 people working? The only thing he did was nearly bankrupt the union with real estate scams and say yes to any concession that AA wanted. When the Unions funds started getting tight he didn't cut pay and benefits he cut heads. Different ideology when it comes to his paycheck. We got the absolute worst deal in BK, we paid triple what the pilots paid for equity and gave up profit sharing. The grievance has been filed on the gain sharing and of course the prefund match is also being held up due to poorly written language. Why agree to tie in our match to the 1114 process, one thing had nothing to do with the other? thank the big man again. gain sharing? Another one of his babies, we promise to make AA number one in the industry with the wosrt contract in the industry and then lets sit together and figure out what we get in return. Speaking of the big man, doesn't he also get the option to buy out his TWU pension?  How many TWU members feel that he deserves a six figure windfall, plus his pension based on the pay reported by the union?

Like I said earlier. If. We had taken the 2010 TA we would have been better off going in to BK. Instead we went in lower and you were willing to beg for what CO/UA has now. You're failed ideology contributed to our crappy deal.

As for cutting pay, I can see that for the staff that oversees our contract but not for those in the TWU that did well for their members. FAs at SWA did well and their reps are deserving of a raise. AA MCTs did well so their reps deserve a raise. Our reps including the locals at AA, yep they deserved a pay cut. So explain why it was necessary for 591 to permit bylaws that gave you guys a raise without membership approval and don't blame the Intl. They did not give you a raise. They rubber stamped your request to not have a membership vote.