Article 4 Industry Comparable Pay rate

[Realityck]

Better than your negotiations are going!  How bout that D-A$$?  No, not 3 years D-A$$.  Why are you soooooooo worked up about Seham?  Is it because he does a good job?  As well as a good job for YOUR fellow mechanics to get their jobs back that the TWU  "COMPLETELY FREAKIN FAILED AT"   Keep posting D-A$$, pls keep posting, you are doing a great job for the TWU...

 
 
 
American Airlines adopted the benchmark B-scale in 1983, permanently reducing pay for newly hired pilots by 50 percent. In fact, under the AA system—negotiated while the Seham firm sat on the labor side of the table—pay rates and pensions for new employees would never merge with those of then-current employees.
 
Martin Seham wrote proudly of this accomplishment in Cleared for Takeoff: Airline Labor Relations Since Deregulation.
 
As general counsel to the Allied Pilots Association (APA), the independent certified representative of the American Airlines pilots, I was close to the negotiations that resulted, in 1983, in the earliest realization of the two-tier system. APA was not faced with an insolvent or failing carrier; it was, however, forced to deal with an economic environment that had changed dramatically because of the effects of deregulation and was, by virtue of its independence, mandated to reach an agreement consistent with the needs and objectives of its constituency. — Martin C. Seham
 
Although B-scales were not a new concept, their initial format was unique to the airline industry. Following American’s lead, other airlines began to demand similar packages—forcing the entire airline labor movement into a new era of concessions. Good for management; bad for pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, and all of the airline industry’s workers.
 
While ALPA pilots were forced to deal with this blight brought to the industry by APA and the Sehams, not one ALPA pilot group accepted a non-merging two-tier scale. The clearest example of this was the ALPA strike at United in June 1985, when the pilots refused to agree to a non-merging two-tier pay scale.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
 
 
American Airlines adopted the benchmark B-scale in 1983, permanently reducing pay for newly hired pilots by 50 percent. In fact, under the AA system—negotiated while the Seham firm sat on the labor side of the table—pay rates and pensions for new employees would never merge with those of then-current employees.
 
Martin Seham wrote proudly of this accomplishment in Cleared for Takeoff: Airline Labor Relations Since Deregulation.
 
As general counsel to the Allied Pilots Association (APA), the independent certified representative of the American Airlines pilots, I was close to the negotiations that resulted, in 1983, in the earliest realization of the two-tier system. APA was not faced with an insolvent or failing carrier; it was, however, forced to deal with an economic environment that had changed dramatically because of the effects of deregulation and was, by virtue of its independence, mandated to reach an agreement consistent with the needs and objectives of its constituency. — Martin C. Seham
 
Although B-scales were not a new concept, their initial format was unique to the airline industry. Following American’s lead, other airlines began to demand similar packages—forcing the entire airline labor movement into a new era of concessions. Good for management; bad for pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, and all of the airline industry’s workers.
 
While ALPA pilots were forced to deal with this blight brought to the industry by APA and the Sehams, not one ALPA pilot group accepted a non-merging two-tier scale. The clearest example of this was the ALPA strike at United in June 1985, when the pilots refused to agree to a non-merging two-tier pay scale.

 
Realityck
 
What you and other TWU supporters fail to get is that Union Leaders negotiate for their members, NOT the Law firm that is on retainer. The Lawyers do what the union wants with regards to labor laws that the companies are attempting to circumvent. The Unions Law firm takes what the companies H/R dept. and the Legal team gives them and insures that it does not violate what has been agreed to in the past and by any language does not now or in the future. The Companies legal team looks for loop holes ways to get around this. Whether it's Pilots or mechanics or dock workers, the Union leaders are not going to give up power to any Law firm.
 
So the constant throwing of the Seham group name as it screwed up for the Pilots and the NWA mechanics is just the TWU's way of suggesting that AMFA is screwed up as well. Every Law firm accepts clients which can pay for the services of that firm. Just as a divorce lawyer works hard for his male clients they will work just as hard for the next female client it does NOT make them a particular type of lawyer does it? 
 
So that means that the Seham group is neither pro company or Union it is just a Labor law firm working for the client that is paying the bills. What the Father (Seham) did also does not reflect what the current Seham will do at the firm. "YES" AMFA has the firm on retainer and asks them to help. But there are many lawyers at that firm, L. Seham can't represent every client. AmFa gets help from this Law firm and many different lawyers do the work as well as legal aids, it works the same at every other law firm.
 
The TWU has a Legal team as well but NO one knows them, why is that. Are they just a mom and pop law firm? They must be real good since our contract has gone backwards for twenty years, or more. tell us their names? And just what they have accomplished for us.
 
The TWU Intl. has failed us here at AA and it's time for them to GO!!!
 
No one can tell you that AMFA is going to completely save us but it will be a step in the right direction. What happens once we remove the TWU will depend on each member of the Union to make this change a positive one. By this I mean work hard to change the culture of bending over and giving in to the company. It's time to get respect back into our class and craft, it's time for us all to get back what we had and set a new bar. One which guarantees our families and the future mechanics futures.
 
AMFA at AA in 2014

 

[swamt]

And he still has to go back over 30 years (3 decades) for an example.  Also using people that don't even work at the firm any longer.   BTW,  did you not stop to think that it was the pilots that wanted the scales to protect the current pilots a little better, you know the "I got mine" attitude?  FYI--our co has been trying to double tier the payscale for mechs for the past few contracts and our nego committee flat out refuses to entertain it.  Several of our negos members were part of other airlines that brought it in and it completely split the membership to where the co would only make changes to make one of the groups happy to get contracts to pass,  it's a lose, lose concept and would never vote for it...

 

[scorpion 2]

The TWU has a Legal team as well but NO one knows them, why is that. Are they just a mom and pop law firm? They must be real good since our contract has gone backwards for twenty years, or more. tell us their names? And just what they have accomplished for us.
 
If this firm exists what kind of access do the members have to them? Does it only deal with the international president? Can the ATD call on them for answers?

 

[Rogallo]

And he still has to go back over 30 years (3 decades) for an example.  Also using people that don't even work at the firm any longer.   BTW,  did you not stop to think that it was the pilots that wanted the scales to protect the current pilots a little better, you know the "I got mine" attitude?  FYI--our co has been trying to double tier the payscale for mechs for the past few contracts and our nego committee flat out refuses to entertain it.  Several of our negos members were part of other airlines that brought it in and it completely split the membership to where the co would only make changes to make one of the groups happy to get contracts to pass,  it's a lose, lose concept and would never vote for it...

Doesn't work there anymore? I'd say so!
 
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9803E2D9133AF937A25756C0A9609C8B63

 

[Overspeed]

And he still has to go back over 30 years (3 decades) for an example.  Also using people that don't even work at the firm any longer.   BTW,  did you not stop to think that it was the pilots that wanted the scales to protect the current pilots a little better, you know the "I got mine" attitude?  FYI--our co has been trying to double tier the payscale for mechs for the past few contracts and our nego committee flat out refuses to entertain it.  Several of our negos members were part of other airlines that brought it in and it completely split the membership to where the co would only make changes to make one of the groups happy to get contracts to pass,  it's a lose, lose concept and would never vote for it...

 
While Mr M Seham has passed on, his son is a new and improved scammer.
 
Has anybody seen USAPA’s LM-2 from last year?  
 
On that form, USAPA disclosed that it paid Seham, Seham, Meltz, and Peterson (Lee Seham’s law firm) $187,863 for the period beginning 4/18/08 through and including 6/30/2008.  If you do the math, that’s about $2,500 per day.  At that rate, we would expect Mr. Seham’s firm to collect nearly $1 million from USAPA during this fiscal year. We estimate that the 2008 figure will be much higher.  The $2,500 per day rate does not take into account current litigation expenses (USAPA is a defendant in two DFR lawsuits), arbitration expenses, or contract negotiations.  USAPA’s litigation expenses alone are rumored to be already in excess of $2 million.  It is quite possible that Seham’s firm will collect at least $3 million in dues dollars from US Airways pilots this fiscal year, which is about 30% of USAPA’s income (assuming that everybody was paying their dues/fees in full every month). Because Mr. Seham is the managing partner of his firm, he will likely pocket the lion’s share of that $3 million.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
While Mr M Seham has passed on, his son is a new and improved scammer.
 
Has anybody seen USAPA’s LM-2 from last year?  
 
On that form, USAPA disclosed that it paid Seham, Seham, Meltz, and Peterson (Lee Seham’s law firm) $187,863 for the period beginning 4/18/08 through and including 6/30/2008.  If you do the math, that’s about $2,500 per day.  At that rate, we would expect Mr. Seham’s firm to collect nearly $1 million from USAPA during this fiscal year. We estimate that the 2008 figure will be much higher.  The $2,500 per day rate does not take into account current litigation expenses (USAPA is a defendant in two DFR lawsuits), arbitration expenses, or contract negotiations.  USAPA’s litigation expenses alone are rumored to be already in excess of $2 million.  It is quite possible that Seham’s firm will collect at least $3 million in dues dollars from US Airways pilots this fiscal year, which is about 30% of USAPA’s income (assuming that everybody was paying their dues/fees in full every month). Because Mr. Seham is the managing partner of his firm, he will likely pocket the lion’s share of that $3 million.

O/S
 
 
SPIN SPIN SPIN> Legal fees at each law firm are all different and most lawyers charge by the hr. Even a divorce lawyer at $450.00 an hr or higher would earn that if he had some type of arbitration hearing or court case he was dealing with so what is your point here. That the Seham law firm take less like the TWU has for us?
 
I bet the seham law firm is not getting any kick backs from the company like the TWU got the legal fees paid by the company. Now the TWU is even taking money from the employees equity for legal fee's how much money is that? Isn't the dues supposed to cover those admin costs??
 
Your a hypocrite, you just want the put out some bs about the seham group to discredit the AMFA drive here at aa. Just because the AMFA uses his services that makes him a AMFA lawyer. NOT TRUE and YOU know that. They are simply a Labor law firm. This means management or union or anyone who can afford the service they provide can hire them. They have the right like any business to charge what ever the going rate is for those services.
 
We pay union dues to the TWU and what have we got in return?
 

FAILURE​

 
You mean that is all you got, You have to put out some bs spin rather than answer the questions put to you about the positive things that the TWU has done for our class and craft? I bet you even went to the joke anti-amfa meeting in DFW. What color was the cool aid this time?

 

[Chuck Schalk]

 
While Mr M Seham has passed on, his son is a new and improved scammer.
 
Has anybody seen USAPA’s LM-2 from last year?  
 
On that form, USAPA disclosed that it paid Seham, Seham, Meltz, and Peterson (Lee Seham’s law firm) $187,863 for the period beginning 4/18/08 through and including 6/30/2008.  If you do the math, that’s about $2,500 per day.  At that rate, we would expect Mr. Seham’s firm to collect nearly $1 million from USAPA during this fiscal year. We estimate that the 2008 figure will be much higher.  The $2,500 per day rate does not take into account current litigation expenses (USAPA is a defendant in two DFR lawsuits), arbitration expenses, or contract negotiations.  USAPA’s litigation expenses alone are rumored to be already in excess of $2 million.  It is quite possible that Seham’s firm will collect at least $3 million in dues dollars from US Airways pilots this fiscal year, which is about 30% of USAPA’s income (assuming that everybody was paying their dues/fees in full every month). Because Mr. Seham is the managing partner of his firm, he will likely pocket the lion’s share of that $3 million.

Overspun,  how much does a twu international reps recieve as a buyout of their TWU International pension after they are let go as reps?   How much of our union dues goes to that?   you know, so tell everyone

 

[Overspeed]

Overspun,  how much does a twu international reps recieve as a buyout of their TWU International pension after they are let go as reps?   How much of our union dues goes to that?   you know, so tell everyone

 
 I dont know that one

 

[700UW]

Hey overspun,
 
USAPA fired Seham and is suing him for money.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.

 

[Overspeed]

Hey overspun,
 
USAPA fired Seham and is suing him for money.
 
Dont let the facts get in your way.

 
I know that they fired him. Your point?

 

[swamt]

 
While Mr M Seham has passed on, his son is a new and improved scammer.
 
Has anybody seen USAPA’s LM-2 from last year?  
 
On that form, USAPA disclosed that it paid Seham, Seham, Meltz, and Peterson (Lee Seham’s law firm) $187,863 for the period beginning 4/18/08 through and including 6/30/2008.  If you do the math, that’s about $2,500 per day.  At that rate, we would expect Mr. Seham’s firm to collect nearly $1 million from USAPA during this fiscal year. We estimate that the 2008 figure will be much higher.  The $2,500 per day rate does not take into account current litigation expenses (USAPA is a defendant in two DFR lawsuits), arbitration expenses, or contract negotiations.  USAPA’s litigation expenses alone are rumored to be already in excess of $2 million.  It is quite possible that Seham’s firm will collect at least $3 million in dues dollars from US Airways pilots this fiscal year, which is about 30% of USAPA’s income (assuming that everybody was paying their dues/fees in full every month). Because Mr. Seham is the managing partner of his firm, he will likely pocket the lion’s share of that $3 million.

And your point is what???

 

[swamt]

Overspeed  pls keep posting your doing a great job.  LOL.  Gotta LUV this stuff!!!
 
BTW;  Answer the questions instead of dodging them.  Typical TWU supporter...

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 
 I dont know that one

 
O/S
 
While you are checking on what TWU reps get upon departure from the TWU, can you let us know just HOW MUCH? 
 
1. J. Little 
2. Don VeDeitch 
3. B. Gless
4. A Luby, O'Donnell, Schwartz, & Anderson Law firm was paid by the TWU for their service to the members.
 
If you can post/check on seham surely you can give us these numbers.
 
Now don't come back and tell us you don't know again, or can't get that info.
Because when it comes to bashing what AMFA leaders got or Which law firm the AMFA used and who wrote what while representing Pilots, You cast lots of stones.
 
Oh and since you are saying that the current law firm of Seham gets so much money from AMFA, just how much and which firm is now getting the TWU's money?????
 
We all are waiting for your Numbers..
 
Don't disappoint us, since you would NOT want to have egg on your face now would YOU?
 
AMFA at AA in 2014

 

[Chuck Schalk]

 
 I dont know that one

 
selective amnesia I say.........the man with all that knowledge and you don't know?   you have the resources to find out,  so let us know.......