Article 4 Industry Comparable Pay rate

[WeAAsles]

 BTW;  As others have posted, strikes are overrated.  More work can be accomplished by staying on property and work from within.  There are too many sups, managers, directors that actually could replace the workforce that works on the planes along with many, many contracting companies that could supply hundreds upon hundreds if not thousands of replacements that the co would be more than willing to train.  AMFA as well as the industry has learned alot from the NWA fiasco. Yes it came at a price

Very much agree with this whole paragraph.

 

[WeAAsles]

President John Samuelsen addressed the press corps surrounded by TWU Local 100 officers coming off a two-year contract fight that ended in victory with a deal worth $647 million. He gave a summary of the deal, the high stakes surrounding ratification, and the tenacity and determination of the union team to bring it home.

http://www.twulocal100.org/

 

[WeAAsles]

By the way to give all you AMFA supporters a little bone. Looking at the SWA updates I actually like that very much. Very in depth at keeping the members informed in that area.

I really would like to see the TWU adopt something like that when we go into joint talks with our IAM partners. No FB pages or any of that type of nonsense but web updates is a very good idea.

 

[Rogallo]

when we go into joint talks with our IAM partners.
 

 
My opinion only, I hope that never happens!

 

[blue collar]

By the way to give all you AMFA supporters a little bone. Looking at the SWA updates I actually like that very much. Very in depth at keeping the members informed in that area.

I really would like to see the TWU adopt something like that when we go into joint talks with our IAM partners. No FB pages or any of that type of nonsense but web updates is a very good idea.

Not only that, but AMFA has observers in on the negotiations. Why doesn't the TWU or IAM adopt that as well?

 

[Chuck Schalk]

I agree under the weak supporting conditions,  we are better off staying on the property and fighting them on the inside.

 

[Chuck Schalk]

The American Airlines Bankruptcy  exerpts:
 
“it seems clear that AMR filed for bankruptcy for strategic purposes. The main purpose for declaring chapter 11 was to reduce labor costs”
 
“Given that the debt holders were made whole and stock holders of the company were made rich (at least from the time of bankruptcy), Labor essentially bore the costs of bankruptcy”.
 
“All creditors experienced recovery rates of 100% and equity holders earned massive profits”
 
Like I said,  we got pennies on the dollar for our concessions and we are suppose to be thankful while everyone else prospered.    This is why the BK was a scam and the TWU played into it.

 

[WeAAsles]

The American Airlines Bankruptcy  exerpts:
 
“it seems clear that AMR filed for bankruptcy for strategic purposes. The main purpose for declaring chapter 11 was to reduce labor costs”
 
“Given that the debt holders were made whole and stock holders of the company were made rich (at least from the time of bankruptcy), Labor essentially bore the costs of bankruptcy”.
 
“All creditors experienced recovery rates of 100% and equity holders earned massive profits”
 
Like I said,  we got pennies on the dollar for our concessions and we are suppose to be thankful while everyone else prospered.    This is why the BK was a scam and the TWU played into it.

You're really pretty far out there bro. Must be hard trying to sell your product if this is all you keep coming up with? You might need to get some help?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

With all the talk on bankruptcy, concessions, and the questions and speculations on ways to mitigate the impact to labor, this article on the often overlooked successful strategy employed jointly by ALPA-AFA-AMFA, at Mesaba Airlines is a good read.
 
In the end it comes down to UNITY, not just within our own individual unions but amongst ALL unions.
 
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDEQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpa.org%2Fportals%2Falpa%2Fmagazine%2F2007%2FJan2007_PGP-Mesaba.pdf&ei=6oSCU7HjAtCbqAatqoLgBA&usg=AFQjCNEeh9yI_09PHb1ZEfIIw_9DaKui_g&bvm=bv.67720277,d.b2k

 

[WeAAsles]

Not only that, but AMFA has observers in on the negotiations. Why doesn't the TWU or IAM adopt that as well?

I'm not sure about this one? We vote in our Presidents to represent us and I think because of that we should trust them and not have them think we need to look over their shoulders. Aside from that what if one of the observers decides he doesn't like what he hears and flies off the handle? It can make all of us look like asses. That's just my opinion.

 

[WeAAsles]

With all the talk on bankruptcy, concessions, and the questions and speculations on ways to mitigate the impact to labor, this article on the often overlooked successful strategy employed jointly by ALPA-AFA-AMFA, at Mesaba Airlines is a good read.
 
In the end it comes down to UNITY, not just within our own individual unions but amongst ALL unions.
 
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDEQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alpa.org%2Fportals%2Falpa%2Fmagazine%2F2007%2FJan2007_PGP-Mesaba.pdf&ei=6oSCU7HjAtCbqAatqoLgBA&usg=AFQjCNEeh9yI_09PHb1ZEfIIw_9DaKui_g&bvm=bv.67720277,d.b2k

This was an excellent read and absolutely all unions on the property who are going through a tough time should stick together and help each other out. But again it's still another example of how labor did not come out ahead in a Bankruptcy. Still looking for that one example where fighting all the way as some advocated would have been successful?

Anyway here's another example of Unions sticking together to make the best of a horrible situation and at least come out a little better than they could have.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/2013/02/14/how-labor-made-the-usairwaysamr-merger-happen/

 

[blue collar]

I'm not sure about this one? We vote in our Presidents to represent us and I think because of that we should trust them and not have them think we need to look over their shoulders. Aside from that what if one of the observers decides he doesn't like what he hears and flies off the handle? It can make all of us look like asses. That's just my opinion.

It's not a matter of trust- it's a great tool to show the company solidarity, and it's one of the ways that AMFA chooses to be held accountable. Your union shouldn't have anything to hide, and it helps members get a feeling for the process. As far as your 'what if'? It's just that- a 'what if'.

 

[WeAAsles]

It's not a matter of trust- it's a great tool to show the company solidarity, and it's one of the ways that AMFA chooses to be held accountable. Your union shouldn't have anything to hide, and it helps members get a feeling for the process. As far as your 'what if'? It's just that- a 'what if'.

I'm not knocking it but from a personal perspective I'm thinking for someone who goes to one it may be pretty boring though? I mean putting the current SWA negotiations in as the example. It's been going on for almost 2 years now. Negotiations have all sorts of parts and not every item being discussed is always the most exciting one, IE: Pay. And I'm sure that many times there are sessions that have yielded no results where the person observing may be pretty bored at the end of the day.

Now if someone was considering running for a position that would place them on one of those negotiating teams I could understand going. That would be a good gauge to see what happens there and if you'd want to be a part of it. Plus it could help you get votes as showing you're being proactive in the process.

Being an observer means you have no say or no voice in the process anyway. So again personally I just don't see the point of it?

 

[1AA]

I'm not sure about this one? We vote in our Presidents to represent us and I think because of that we should trust them and not have them think we need to look over their shoulders. Aside from that what if one of the observers decides he doesn't like what he hears and flies off the handle? It can make all of us look like asses. That's just my opinion.

Ever here of C-Span? We can watch and oversee what our congress is doing.
So why should unions be held to secrecy in negotiations?

 

[WeAAsles]

Ever here of C-Span? We can watch and oversee what our congress is doing.
So why should unions be held to secrecy in negotiations?

Can't throw a tomato at Ted Cruz watching C-Span and hit him in the face. On another note I'm not too crazy about all of our contracts being so easily available on the Net. Why should some chick I want to date know exactly to the penny how much I make at my job? 

I think we have a little too much transparency today if you ask me. Next thing you know someone will want to stick a camera in my toilet bowl to see if there's any corn.