Article 4 Industry Comparable Pay rate

[AMFAinMIAMI]

You don't really understand something. I'm not a TWU rep and could care less who you want to represent you. It doesn't even have a tiny ounce of a concern to me in ANY way shape or form. The one's I do care about would be your hostages, your bargaining chips. Title 2!!!! Looking at AMFA contracts anyone in there right minds knows EXACTLY what you guys are going to do to them come negotiation time. Bye Bye Birdie! "They have NOTHING to do with my craft anyway, I don't care what happens to them" Basically my thought is set your hostages free and you can take your ship anywhere you want to sail it. You want AMFA because you know you can rid of everyone who doesn't turn a wrench and get more for you.

But another thing is IF you are going to go you're not going to leave with snake oil salesman selling you a bunch of soda water as a cure all tonic. You need to leave knowing full well the entire story and what you're getting yourself into. You need to leave and whoever you chose to go with STICK with them. Don't come looking for someone else to represent you in 5 years because who you picked wasn't all they were cracked up to be in YOUR minds.

The TWU will do just fine without you if that's what you really want. I personally don't want to see you go but your all grown ups and can make your own choices in life.

Happy AMT day BTW.

WeAAsles
 
That is what you industrial union guys tell the Title 2 guys.
 
The NMB has them in our class and craft and there they will remain, The reason you quote the loss of title 2 guys at any AMFA represented carrier was they
were either IBT or IAM and with both of those unions they are all on the same seniority list with the Title 1 mechanics.
 
Here at AA we have seperate lists title 1 and title 2 have their own seniority list. Any reduction will not effect the other and AMFA does not or can not change that.
 
The contract would have to be changed to make that happen. I assume you know that any change in representation does not effect the contract.
Since we can't bump them or they can't bump us here at AA they won't get removed as you want them to think. So get your facts straight.
You must have time in any title group to bump into that title group.
 
WeAAsles if you Don't care about who we want then why are you making such a big point in an issue that does not effect you or your title group.
 
The ONLY reason the TWU supporters still want us and this is not just my opinion, many of the AMT's think this. You (twu types) think you have more leverage with us in the same union.
 
I can't think of any other reason than that. But if anyone is a true guy and any union on the property had a problem all other union should support them NO Matter what.
 
But the IAM at NWA along with the pilots and the F/A crossed the line. Like I said before we don't think we are better than any other group we just want the chance to
select the leaders we want from our own class and craft. Some one who understands, the job we perform and will look out for our class and craft.
 
The AA pilots and F/A are separate and started their own union, why does the TWU think we will fail while the other work groups prospered.
$7.Mil in dues is the reason the TWU wants us as well and for NO other reason.
 
You are a self admitted FSC/Ramp worker not a title 2 guy or a mechanic in any way, you have no stake in this fight,
other than to attempt to keep us in the TWU but you say you don't care? Make up your mind? 
 
Debating facts about AMFA and the TWU when it really does not effect you, is contradictory if you don't CARE. 
 
 
AMFA at AA 2014
 
 
That is some bs both the IAM and the TWU will attempt to sell trying to keep the Title2 guys from voting out the Totally Worthless Union.

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles
 
That is what you industrial union guys tell the Title 2 guys.
 
The NMB has them in our class and craft and there they will remain, The reason you quote the loss of title 2 guys at any AMFA represented carrier was they
were either IBT or IAM and with both of those unions they are all on the same seniority list with the Title 1 mechanics.
 
Here at AA we have seperate lists title 1 and title 2 have their own seniority list. Any reduction will not effect the other and AMFA does not or can not change that.
 
The contract would have to be changed to make that happen. I assume you know that any change in representation does not effect the contract.
Since we can't bump them or they can't bump us here at AA they won't get removed as you want them to think. So get your facts straight.
You must have time in any title group to bump into that title group.

As soon as you guys go into your next round of contract negotiations with the company they're toast and you know it. You call yourself a "Craft" union on purpose and they do not work on airplanes.

So any Title 2 that thinks these people are going to give a hill of beans about you, think again. does AMFA currently represent or are they looking to represent Facilities Maintenace guys? Take a guess?
 
 
WeAAsles if you Don't care about who we want then why are you making such a big point in an issue that does not effect you or your title group.

Because I enjoy sticking nose in places that people would prefer I didn't. Maybe I have something to prove to myself that a little ole FSC like myself can stand toe to toe against you giants. I think I always wanted to be more than the little pleeb in life I really am?
 
 
The ONLY reason the TWU supporters still want us and this is not just my opinion, many of the AMT's think this. You (twu types) think you have more leverage with us in the same union.

Actually I absolutely don't feel that way. Look at your history in the industry. You guys change out Unions more than I change my underwear. I think you guys distract from the real fighting we need to be doing than help if you really want to know.
 
I can't think of any other reason than that. But if anyone is a true guy and any union on the property had a problem all other union should support them NO Matter what.

Not if one day you sell out thousands of other people to get more for yourselves as I'm positive you will. Prove me wrong and if you're ever walking a picket line I'll join you. Otherwise get out of my way, you're blocking the door.
 
But the IAM at NWA along with the pilots and the F/A crossed the line. Like I said before we don't think we are better than any other group we just want the chance to
select the leaders we want from our own class and craft. Some one who understands, the job we perform and will look out for our class and craft.

Why? Really tell me why almost NO ONE wanted to help AMFA? Where were the rest of the organized labor forces in America when that happened. Wonder if any of our guys joined a Hostess line or have participated in a March for a liveable wage event?
 
The AA pilots and F/A are separate and started their own union, why does the TWU think we will fail while the other work groups prospered.
$7.Mil in dues is the reason the TWU wants us as well and for NO other reason.

Because the group you're looking to join has failed miserably in the past. Although I absolutely do have sincere sympathy for those former NWA mechanics. 
 
You are a self admitted FSC/Ramp worker not a title 2 guy or a mechanic in any way, you have no stake in this fight,
other than to attempt to keep us in the TWU but you say you don't care? Make up your mind? 

If you go to ANY other Union it will be no skin off my apple. But I have lot's of friends out there and they're not quite as good at conveying there thoughts as I am. I'm just putting into clarity what you're opposition feels. As Mayor Koch used to say "How,m I doin?"
 
Debating facts about AMFA and the TWU when it really does not effect you, is contradictory if you don't CARE.

See above.
 
 
AMFA at AA 2014
 
 
That is some bs both the IAM and the TWU will attempt to sell trying to keep the Title2 guys from voting out the Totally Worthless Union.

That is some BS this AMFA guy is attempting to sell you that he won't one day vote you out of a job.

Take that to the bank.
 

 

[WeAAsles]

Machinists 1,903 - 56.8%
Teamsters 1,418 - 42.3%
AMFA write-in 8 - 0.2%
No representation - 21 0.6%
Total 3,350 - 100%
 
Here's what I mean when I talk about you guys being a distraction. When the IBT went after Usair Mechanics there were 8 write in votes for AMFA. Even the No Union option had 13 more votes. And yet you guys are still asking Usair guys to send in cards?

This nonsense waists money and resources that absolutely could be put to better use.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

 

WeAAsles
 
That is what you industrial union guys tell the Title 2 guys.
 
The NMB has them in our class and craft and there they will remain, The reason you quote the loss of title 2 guys at any AMFA represented carrier was they
were either IBT or IAM and with both of those unions they are all on the same seniority list with the Title 1 mechanics.
 
Here at AA we have separate lists title 1 and title 2 have their own seniority list. Any reduction will not effect the other and AMFA does not or can not change that.
 
The contract would have to be changed to make that happen. I assume you know that any change in representation does not effect the contract.
Since we can't bump them or they can't bump us here at AA they won't get removed as you want them to think. So get your facts straight.
You must have time in any title group to bump into that title group.

As soon as you guys go into your next round of contract negotiations with the company they're toast and you know it. You call yourself a "Craft" union on purpose and they do not work on airplanes. NMB determines they members of class and craft NOT THE UNION>

So any Title 2 that thinks these people are going to give a hill of beans about you, think again. does AMFA currently represent or are they looking to represent Facilities Maintenace guys? Take a guess?
 
WeAAsles Go to the amafa home page on the net look for your self who they represent.
 
At SWA they don't have a title 2 but they call them utility and something else. Just like the IAM. A auto mechanic at sw makes $40 dollars an hr. thats ,more than I make here at AA by $5.00. Since the auto and facilities here at AA are title 2 they would be represented here at AA as well. so I call bs on YOU.
 
 
WeAAsles if you Don't care about who we want then why are you making such a big point in an issue that does not effect you or your title group.

Because I enjoy sticking nose in places that people would prefer I didn't. Maybe I have something to prove to myself that a little ole FSC like myself can stand toe to toe against you giants. I think I always wanted to be more than the little pleeb in life I really am?
 
 
The ONLY reason the TWU supporters still want us and this is not just my opinion, many of the AMT's think this. You (twu types) think you have more leverage with us in the same union.

Actually I absolutely don't feel that way. Look at your history in the industry. You guys change out Unions more than I change my underwear. I think you guys distract from the real fighting we need to be doing than help if you really want to know. But that is our choice 
to change yet you industrial union types want us to be with YOU WHY?
 
I can't think of any other reason than that. But if anyone is a true guy and any union on the property had a problem all other union should support them NO Matter what.

Not if one day you sell out thousands of other people to get more for yourselves as I'm positive you will. Prove me wrong and if you're ever walking a picket line I'll join you. Otherwise get out of my way, you're blocking the door.
 
But the IAM at NWA along with the pilots and the F/A crossed the line. Like I said before we don't think we are better than any other group we just want the chance to
select the leaders we want from our own class and craft. Some one who understands, the job we perform and will look out for our class and craft.

Why? Really tell me why almost NO ONE wanted to help AMFA? Where were the rest of the organized labor forces in America when that happened. Wonder if any of our guys joined a Hostess line or have participated in a March for a liveable wage event? Not AFL-CIO affiliated.
 
The AA pilots and F/A are separate and started their own union, why does the TWU think we will fail while the other work groups prospered.
$7.Mil in dues is the reason the TWU wants us as well and for NO other reason.

Because the group you're looking to join has failed miserably in the past. Although I absolutely do have sincere sympathy for those former NWA mechanics. 
 
You are a self admitted FSC/Ramp worker not a title 2 guy or a mechanic in any way, you have no stake in this fight,
other than to attempt to keep us in the TWU but you say you don't care? Make up your mind? 

If you go to ANY other Union it will be no skin off my apple. But I have lot's of friends out there and they're not quite as good at conveying there thoughts as I am. I'm just putting into clarity what you're opposition feels. As Mayor Koch used to say "How,m I doin?"
 
Debating facts about AMFA and the TWU when it really does not effect you, is contradictory if you don't CARE.

See above.
 
 
AMFA at AA 2014
 
 
That is some bs both the IAM and the TWU will attempt to sell trying to keep the Title2 guys from voting out the Totally Worthless Union.

That is some BS this AMFA guy is attempting to sell you that he won't one day vote you out of a job. Contact some one at SWA and ask them if they are better off with AMFA as a auto mechanic or facilities rather than the IBT? Then you can say I am wrong. There is even a video on the AMFA site from an auto mechanic. View it your self. he's EX IBT guy. NOW AMFA...
Take that to the bank. The US mechanics and AA mechanics, both title 1&2 will be taking it to the bank. 
 

 

 

[WeAAsles]

 

 


WeAAsles
 
That is what you industrial union guys tell the Title 2 guys.
 
The NMB has them in our class and craft and there they will remain, The reason you quote the loss of title 2 guys at any AMFA represented carrier was they
were either IBT or IAM and with both of those unions they are all on the same seniority list with the Title 1 mechanics.
 
Here at AA we have separate lists title 1 and title 2 have their own seniority list. Any reduction will not effect the other and AMFA does not or can not change that.
 
The contract would have to be changed to make that happen. I assume you know that any change in representation does not effect the contract.
Since we can't bump them or they can't bump us here at AA they won't get removed as you want them to think. So get your facts straight.
You must have time in any title group to bump into that title group.

As soon as you guys go into your next round of contract negotiations with the company they're toast and you know it. You call yourself a "Craft" union on purpose and they do not work on airplanes. NMB determines they members of class and craft NOT THE UNION>

So any Title 2 that thinks these people are going to give a hill of beans about you, think again. does AMFA currently represent or are they looking to represent Facilities Maintenace guys? Take a guess?
 
WeAAsles Go to the amafa home page on the net look for your self who they represent.
 
At SWA they don't have a title 2 but the call them utility and something else. Just like the IAM. A auto mechanic at sw makes $40 dollard na hr. thats ,ore than I make here at AA by $5.00. Since the auto and facilities here at AA are title 2 they would be represented here at AA as well. so I call bs on YOU.

Well since facilities only became a part of that group in 2011 I will hold out sincere hope that the represent them strong and don't sell them out in the future for the larger majority? With Southwest looking for some givebacks right now or a little wiggle room only time will tell the story there? Frankly I don't really trust the AA guys as much as Southwest people. It's a different mentality over there.

AMFA Welcomes our Newest Members
    Mar 14, 2011 - Posted by: AMFA National
The National Mediation Board (NMB) has found that the Southwest Airlines Facilities Maintenance Technicians and Aircraft Maintenance Controllers (including Operations Team Leaders) are a part of the Mechanic and Related Class and Craft and are covered by the AMFA certification.

 Congratulations and welcome to the Association.​

 
 
WeAAsles if you Don't care about who we want then why are you making such a big point in an issue that does not effect you or your title group.

Because I enjoy sticking nose in places that people would prefer I didn't. Maybe I have something to prove to myself that a little ole FSC like myself can stand toe to toe against you giants. I think I always wanted to be more than the little pleeb in life I really am?
 
 
The ONLY reason the TWU supporters still want us and this is not just my opinion, many of the AMT's think this. You (twu types) think you have more leverage with us in the same union.

Actually I absolutely don't feel that way. Look at your history in the industry. You guys change out Unions more than I change my underwear. I think you guys distract from the real fighting we need to be doing than help if you really want to know. But that is our choice 
to change yet you industrial union types want us to be with YOU WHY?

I already said how I feel about it. And I've also told you before what I think of a mom and pop union when they have to go up against the CASH that big corporations can destroy you with.

My opinion but you feel otherwise, ok.
 
 
I can't think of any other reason than that. But if anyone is a true guy and any union on the property had a problem all other union should support them NO Matter what.

Not if one day you sell out thousands of other people to get more for yourselves as I'm positive you will. Prove me wrong and if you're ever walking a picket line I'll join you. Otherwise get out of my way, you're blocking the door.
 
But the IAM at NWA along with the pilots and the F/A crossed the line. Like I said before we don't think we are better than any other group we just want the chance to
select the leaders we want from our own class and craft. Some one who understands, the job we perform and will look out for our class and craft.

Why? Really tell me why almost NO ONE wanted to help AMFA? Where were the rest of the organized labor forces in America when that happened. Wonder if any of our guys joined a Hostess line or have participated in a March for a liveable wage event? Not AFL-CIO affiliated.

I honestly might not be able to argue with you there. Unfortunately. ??????
 
 
The AA pilots and F/A are separate and started their own union, why does the TWU think we will fail while the other work groups prospered.
$7.Mil in dues is the reason the TWU wants us as well and for NO other reason.

Because the group you're looking to join has failed miserably in the past. Although I absolutely do have sincere sympathy for those former NWA mechanics. 
 
You are a self admitted FSC/Ramp worker not a title 2 guy or a mechanic in any way, you have no stake in this fight,
other than to attempt to keep us in the TWU but you say you don't care? Make up your mind? 

If you go to ANY other Union it will be no skin off my apple. But I have lot's of friends out there and they're not quite as good at conveying there thoughts as I am. I'm just putting into clarity what you're opposition feels. As Mayor Koch used to say "How,m I doin?"
 
Debating facts about AMFA and the TWU when it really does not effect you, is contradictory if you don't CARE.

See above.
 
 
AMFA at AA 2014
 
 
That is some bs both the IAM and the TWU will attempt to sell trying to keep the Title2 guys from voting out the Totally Worthless Union.

That is some BS this AMFA guy is attempting to sell you that he won't one day vote you out of a job. Contact some one at SWA and ask them if they are better off with AMFA as a auto mechanic or facilities rather than the IBT? Then you can say I am wrong. There is even a video on the AMFA site from an auto mechanic. View it your self. he's EX IBT guy. NOW AMFA...
Take that to the bank. The US mechanics and AA mechanics, both title 1&2 will be taking it to the bank. 

Yes they will but only because the industry is going to be profitable now IMO for many years to come. I hope you didn't mean bothering Usair people anymore though? You really should stop bothering them.

 

 

 

[WeAAsles]

Oh and sorry about all the colors of the rainbow people. It's just easier to respond in multi parts that way sometimes.

 

[700UW]

Why did the UA mechanics vote out AMFA for the IBT?

 

[1AA]

Why did the UA mechanics vote out AMFA for the IBT?

Maybe because the IBT sold the membership a bill of goods?
They almost fooled the USAir guys into voting for them but they were fortunate enough to see through the horse hockey they were peddling and the drawn out negotiations at UAL that has led to nowhere. I spoke to a few CAL guys and even though they were IBT before the UAL guys voted for them the sentiment over at UAL/CAL is to try to hammer out a deal before they try to organize a drive to kick the IBT out. This remains to be seen but stranger things have happened.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Maybe because the IBT sold the membership a bill of goods?
They almost fooled the USAir guys into voting for them but they were fortunate enough to see through the horse hockey they were peddling and the drawn out negotiations at UAL that has led to nowhere. I spoke to a few CAL guys and even though they were IBT before the UAL guys voted for them the sentiment over at UAL/CAL is to try to hammer out a deal before they try to organize a drive to kick the IBT out. This remains to be seen but stranger things have happened.

 
No Maybe about it, thats exactly what happened.
 
The teamsters came in with a world of promises and have delivered next to nothing.
 
While nothing is of course etched in stone, if AA is successful in August, look for a drive at UAL soon after.

 

[Flying low]

 
While nothing is of course etched in stone, if AA is successful in August, look for a drive at UAL soon after.

Why wait? If UA isn't happy with the ibt, start now.

 

[WeAAsles]

Wednesday April 16, 2014:

The session began with yet another Company PowerPoint presentation explaining that the Company will post a substantial quarterly profit, but that the Company still wants, through concessions in our CBA, to prepare for speculative bad times. During this presentation, the Company advised your Committee that Gary Kelly’s request to the Company negotiating committee is that "we want to be an Ultra Low Cost Carrier." Rest assured, your Committee will stand firm against any attempts by the Company to negotiate your compensation and work rules down to Ultra Low Cost Carrier levels.

http://www.amfanational.org/index.cfm?zone=/unionactive/view_article.cfm&HomeID=423317&page=Southwest20Airlines

 

[WeAAsles]

So here's what I'm wondering? The Union has been in negotiations with a profitable company for coming up on 2 years now. The company is still holding firm that they want concessions and want to be in their words an "Ultra Low Cost" carrier. When and what is going to happen at the finish line for these talks?

Will or can SWA if AMFA one day threatens to strike start training replacement workers the same way NWA did? Can it be logistically possible for SWA today to be able to find all those replacements nationwide?

Now this is not meant to attack the union that many of you on here want to go with. This is meant as questions that all of you should be wondering about? One thing I am sure of is that SWA will not be able to play the BK card because they would need very many years of losses to be able to use and get away with it. Any company trying to use that process has to petition the court that the relief they seek is needed before the court will hear their case and SWA is absolutely not a candidate.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

So here's what I'm wondering? The Union has been in negotiations with a profitable company for coming up on 2 years now. The company is still holding firm that they want concessions and want to be in their words an "Ultra Low Cost" carrier. When and what is going to happen at the finish line for these talks?

Will or can SWA if AMFA one day threatens to strike start training replacement workers the same way NWA did? Can it be logistically possible for SWA today to be able to find all those replacements nationwide?

Now this is not meant to attack the union that many of you on here want to go with. This is meant as questions that all of you should be wondering about? One thing I am sure of is that SWA will not be able to play the BK card because they would need very many years of losses to be able to use and get away with it. Any company trying to use that process has to petition the court that the relief they seek is needed before the court will hear their case and SWA is absolutely not a candidate.

WeAAsles
 
Strikes by unions these days are a thing of the past, you know that or should.
 
The government and big business have it set up that this is something they will not allow. US economics is the factor they consider, and know that the rules have changed and companies can hold out for yrs while any court action or strike gets determined.
 
As far as replacement workers and what happened at NWA, when we went on strike at Eastern they had scab workers set to go as well. So the big and powerful union idea doesn't play. That was the IAM. Eastern flew for several more yrs until it too went out of business. AA was the beneficiary of that getting south america and caribbean, miami.
 
Hostess as you quoted still ran while the bakers went on strike and the BIG and Powerful IBT crossed the lines there. Even the Teamsters leaders crossed the AMFA picket lines by flying on struck work.. 
 
You talk about how Labor should stick together, well then how come the BIG and powerful union and its leaders don't help the little mom and pop outfits as you call them.
That in itself says a lot about the AFL-CIO affiliated unions. Doesn't it?????
 
Not much can be found about the TWU since it has always been a UNION that gives in to company demands rather than fight. You can't even get guys to go without O/T for one pay period. You want then to go on strike, come on.  

 

[WeAAsles]

WeAAsles
 
Strikes by unions these days are a thing of the past, you know that or should.
 
The government and big business have it set up that this is something they will not allow. US economics is the factor they consider, and know that the rules have changed and companies can hold out for yrs while any court action or strike gets determined.

Agreed. But if a company such as SWA can convince big business that it has the replacements set and ready for only minimal disruptions would a strike be allowed and approved? We all know that the reality is big business is really holding the puppet strings.
 
As far as replacement workers and what happened at NWA, when we went on strike at Eastern they had scab workers set to go as well. So the big and powerful union idea doesn't play. That was the IAM. Eastern flew for several more yrs until it too went out of business. AA was the beneficiary of that getting south america and caribbean, miami.
 
Hostess as you quoted still ran while the bakers went on strike and the BIG and Powerful IBT crossed the lines there. Even the Teamsters leaders crossed the AMFA picket lines by flying on struck work.. 

My cousin worked for Hostess as a Baker. I actually did try to warn him but he said that his guys just didn't care anymore. He does now with a wife and 3 kids. Sugar loaded pastry puffs are a little different than the Airlines. Can't fly to Europe on a Twinkee.
 
You talk about how Labor should stick together, well then how come the BIG and powerful union and its leaders don't help the little mom and pop outfits as you call them.
That in itself says a lot about the AFL-CIO affiliated unions. Doesn't it?????

Yes it does. Unions have always had that type of Mob mentality. You don't pay the protection we break your legs. But as anyone who grew up in NYC knows, the Mafia also kept the neighborhood clean. So to me for a little cash I get to live in a nice neighborhood where I can keep my windows open at night.
 
Not much can be found about the TWU since it has always been a UNION that gives in to company demands rather than fight. You can't even get guys to go without O/T for one pay period. You want then to go on strike, come on.  

No Union gives in to all of the companies demands and you know this. That's why you're being disingenuous. In regards to the TWU the airline industry is only one small part of the whole. Look at what Local 100 just got. Right now NO ONE in the entire State is getting raises and they got one somehow. Was also told it overwhelmingly passed too.

And where did I say that I wanted to go on strike? But there are plenty of people that do. Sad reality is that there are many more that will tell you to F off. Even if the cause for walking is just and the actual chance of winning is good. Under a BK scenario I don't see ANY examples where the chance of winning has been good. Can you give me a few examples where I'm wrong?

 

[swamt]

Wednesday April 16, 2014:

The session began with yet another Company PowerPoint presentation explaining that the Company will post a substantial quarterly profit, but that the Company still wants, through concessions in our CBA, to prepare for speculative bad times. During this presentation, the Company advised your Committee that Gary Kelly’s request to the Company negotiating committee is that "we want to be an Ultra Low Cost Carrier." Rest assured, your Committee will stand firm against any attempts by the Company to negotiate your compensation and work rules down to Ultra Low Cost Carrier levels.

http://www.amfanational.org/index.cfm?zone=/unionactive/view_article.cfm&HomeID=423317&page=Southwest20Airlines

As you can see from above, at least the union is willing to stand up to the company instead of caving and agreeing to all kinds of concessions.  I have posted in the past why the company is delaying.  The co is hell bent on reaching (actually exceeding) the 15% ROIC this year as well as next year.  The co will not settle any contracts until this milestone is reached, therefore the co will stall for as long as they can just to assure the investors the return promised to them for the next few years.   BTW;  As others have posted, strikes are overrated.  More work can be accomplished by staying on property and work from within.  There are too many sups, managers, directors that actually could replace the workforce that works on the planes along with many, many contracting companies that could supply hundreds upon hundreds if not thousands of replacements that the co would be more than willing to train.  AMFA as well as the industry has learned alot from the NWA fiasco. Yes it came at a price, but at least you saw how AMFA will fight for their members and not just lay down and let the co do what they want.  In all the examples givin out here all of them show how AMFA is willing to fight against concessions, not agree to and promote concessions like the TWU has at AA for the past 30 years...