APA Pilots Reject TA
- Thread starter Mach85ER
- Start date
MCI transplant
Veteran
- Jun 4, 2003
- 5,311
- 584
- Banned
- #122
Hell!---- That's nothing to brag on!!!
Super FLUF
Senior
- Jun 10, 2011
- 313
- 206
Hate to burst the bubble of those here hoping we will get locked out and replaced, but that isn't going to happen.
AA doesn't have that many left on furlough. When they were recalling, they had to call around 10-12 just to get 1 warm body to come back. Everyone has retired, switched careers, gone back to the military permanently, or are flying with other better paying airlines.
Even if every single Comair pilot decided to scab, that would cover 654 positions out of the roughly 8400 active pilot we have flying. Throw in a few picket line crossers and management pilots and hey, you are almost 10% there!!
Just think, all management has to do is recruit a few thousand more and train all of them in within a month (max capacity of the schoolhouse is 100/mo, and that takes months of spooling up of simulator staff, instructor pilots, check airman etc.) to really stick it to those greedy APA pilots!
Good luck!
AA doesn't have that many left on furlough. When they were recalling, they had to call around 10-12 just to get 1 warm body to come back. Everyone has retired, switched careers, gone back to the military permanently, or are flying with other better paying airlines.
Even if every single Comair pilot decided to scab, that would cover 654 positions out of the roughly 8400 active pilot we have flying. Throw in a few picket line crossers and management pilots and hey, you are almost 10% there!!
Just think, all management has to do is recruit a few thousand more and train all of them in within a month (max capacity of the schoolhouse is 100/mo, and that takes months of spooling up of simulator staff, instructor pilots, check airman etc.) to really stick it to those greedy APA pilots!
Good luck!
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
I for one, envy the professionalism and strength that the APA exhibits during conflict with AA Management.
I am a member of the TWU and our unionism is a complete joke and waste of time and money.
James C Little signs a letter of support with the Pilots and then he is the first to lick the management boot and run and hide under a rock. I am not responsible for his actions, but the AA Pilots deserve an apology from our membership for his weak and back stabbing ways. I personally apoligize to you and other Pilots that we have a weak and cowardice leader. We are still trying to get rid of the TWU, and any help you can bring to that cause would surely help you down the road.
I hope for the best for you guys and appreciate that you have taken a stand. Ignore the fear and move forward.
Will APA members cross picketlines to serve as replacement FAs if there is any job action from APFA? Your "brothers and sisters" at BALPA did so when UNITE unsuccessful struck BA in summer 2010. The operation carried on unscathed through skeleton crews, management replacements, and wet leased aircraft. BA prevailed and imposed concessions and staffing cuts. Solidarity at its finest!
Josh
Josh
The majority of YOUR union voted in the LBFO2, not Jim Little. Since Jim Little represents the entirety of the TWU and not the APA he doesn't owe the pilots squat. Don't apologize for someone else's decision, it is a DEMOCRATIC process. The bare majority of PEOPLE in your union felt that the known LBFO2 was a better offer than the unknown that could be a term sheet much worse for an undefined period of time. Until you walk a mile in someone else's shoes and know exactly what they are dealing with, don't apologize for them. Apologize for yourself and yourself alone. There are people working for American that have cancer, or have children or spouses with illness or other diseases. Jeapordizing their insurance and possible acces to treatments with a no vote may have been worse to them then the pay cuts, job cuts and/or job changes that the term sheets would have imposed on them. So you only know what you are going through, so ONLY apologize for yourself!!!!!
As for the pilots, there was much talk on this board and several others that the company would request another delay and come to another LBFO2 for the pilot group. Therefore many pilots decided that they would rather take that chance and not get saddled with a 6 year (possibly 10 year deal). It is still unknown what will happen, this next Wednesday. The judge could rule either way on abrogation, and he has not given any indication on how that will be. And then there is how long would it take for the company to renegotiate new terms for the pilots to vote on, in the event that the contract is abrogated.
- Banned
- #128
There wont be a strike, pilots wont be FAs, they are not qualified and AA is short on pilots as it is.
You are truly just a pot stirrer.
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
I would tend to agree with you, except that I have my doubts about the validity of the voting.
And I have illness in my family and could not afford the increased cost of the medical so I voted no. So that is a weak arguement in itself and at minimum a self defeating reason to vote yes.
No we will go for Social Security Disablity and everyone else will now pay what should have been my resposibility. I might learn to like ObamaCare afterall. Everyone else can take financial responsility of my family medical situation.
Brother can you spare some change to pay a medical CoPay and Premium?
Enjoy
Hopeful
Veteran
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
The government would step in so quick stopping a strike, your heads will spin.
No because I have been paying increased medical costs every year since I started working in the job market in 1987. I work two jobs and have for the last 13 years to keep up with inflation and increased costs. Buckle up, the airline industry is finally catching up to the rest of the world. If you want to have cheaper insurance and medical co-pays, vote democratic/socialist so you can just bring in a "canadian" style medical system.
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
So your idea is just give up and let the Master have his way, while you speak of untiy.
Laughable.
While our troops die to protect of Freedom and Capitalist society, you just want to surrender without a fight?
Really?
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #133
Josh,
Another unrealistic post. The BA situation is different. It's also a different country with different rules despite similiar polyester uniforms.
AA pilots aren't going to fill in for the AA FAs. I won't say none, because you might see 50 goofballs for some reason.
I'd have to admit, maybe I'd do it for a couple of weeks or so under my conditions. As long as I only fly LGA-MIA-LGA, get unlimited Civil and Criminal immunity from prosecution, get to wear a big nametag that has my name and the title "New Sheriff in Town" and all profits from the Bravo Network broadcasts of the TV camera I will be wearing.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,662
- Banned
- #134
I would hope AA employees - as well as those at every airline - make safety their first priority every day. With a potential multi-million dollar fine on the horizon, I don't think any judge is going to tell any AA labor group to ignore problems... but then AA's problems w/ the FAA aren't the result of line mechanics and pilots failing to address problems; it is because AA mgmt has said that the "show must go on" without addressing key maintenance issues.
No airline management can tell people to fly when they are sick... and it is absolutely true that pilots esp. have many health reasons which can sideline them and a long list of treatments that the rest of us can use that they cannot.
That said, AA and every other airline does have good history on how long it takes to do tasks, how many people should be sick at a given time out of their workforce, and what percentage of airplanes should need maintenance.
What is also clear is that, right or wrong, AA people are not much in the mood to give in to the company at this point and that might make it very hard for the company to obtain what it wants. It also means that the greatest chance the employees have to make a point is to stick together - through hell or high water.
But it also says that having labor terms imposed on them might jeopardize the legal ability for labor to participate in the restructuring process, giving other creditors greater freedom to do what is in their best interests - as well as those labor groups that agreed to accept AA's terms.
AA's large cash position also changes the complexity of restructuring far more than has been the case at other airlines. Even though all of AA's cash is borrowed, it is pre-petition cash or cash generated from operations since BK. The ability for creditors' to be made whole is much higher given the cash levels and the ability of other suitors to acquire AA or its assets based on stock and assumption of debt.
No airline management can tell people to fly when they are sick... and it is absolutely true that pilots esp. have many health reasons which can sideline them and a long list of treatments that the rest of us can use that they cannot.
That said, AA and every other airline does have good history on how long it takes to do tasks, how many people should be sick at a given time out of their workforce, and what percentage of airplanes should need maintenance.
What is also clear is that, right or wrong, AA people are not much in the mood to give in to the company at this point and that might make it very hard for the company to obtain what it wants. It also means that the greatest chance the employees have to make a point is to stick together - through hell or high water.
But it also says that having labor terms imposed on them might jeopardize the legal ability for labor to participate in the restructuring process, giving other creditors greater freedom to do what is in their best interests - as well as those labor groups that agreed to accept AA's terms.
AA's large cash position also changes the complexity of restructuring far more than has been the case at other airlines. Even though all of AA's cash is borrowed, it is pre-petition cash or cash generated from operations since BK. The ability for creditors' to be made whole is much higher given the cash levels and the ability of other suitors to acquire AA or its assets based on stock and assumption of debt.
Jacobin777
Senior
More like the APA will have a problem if this happens:
http://www.bloomberg...-mail-says.html
-Not every pilot is going to suddenly leave the workforce. Once the contracts are abrogated, AA isn't obliged to hire "x-amount in x-time". They can hire as they fit.
-I just don't see why the APA thinks Parker is the "magic bullet" here. I'm very skeptical on his claims.
-Also, there are other ways of "sticking it to management". This can be done such as getting seats on the board (which the unions would certainly get post-BK). Getting other board members who aren't "cozy-cozy" to management-thus affecting management "perks", salaries, etc.
-If one hates the management & company so much, there are other options. I find it to be sad how a few thousand people are holding tens of thousands of other employees "hostage".
-Finally, its really the "top-level" management who make the large amount of money/bonus. The vast majority of AA employees certainly don't.
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