Analyst Jamie Baker says AA won't cut labor costs as much as Horton would like

[Duke787]

You don't seem to understand,15,000 in one pocket 20,000 out of the other pocket ! 2/3 of the membership understood that !!

2/3 rds of the membership listened to the vote "NO" coalition, who fed into their emotions.

Now we just have $20k out of one pocket (I don't understand how you get $20k out our pockets?) , plus there will mostly likely be jobs lost, $70k out of both pockets for some...........it seems you don't understand!!!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

2/3 rds of the membership listened to the vote "NO" coalition, who fed into their emotions.

Now we just have $20k out of one pocket (I don't understand how you get $20k out our pockets?) , plus there will mostly likely be jobs lost, $70k out of both pockets for some...........it seems you don't understand!!!!!

Are you saying that if we had agreed to that the company would not have filed?

 

[TWU informer]

Are you saying that if we had agreed to that the company would not have filed?

All of that is pure speculation Bob, regardless of which side you are on. Not much different than your failed speculation that we would be offered a better deal if we voted no, if we requested a release, or even if we were released. None of which happened or would have worked.

One thing that is not speculation is that many of the members lost over $15,000.00 while you kept claiming that "retro was still on the table". And everyone over 49 would still have their prefunding. Now we will all lose that.

Your justification for advocating a no vote changes just like who you blame for our demise changes.

How about this for speculation. Had we voted YES and then they filed, we would have got to keep our pension.
You have lead us into this, now how do you propose to lead us out?

What you have cost me should justify criminal charges as far as I am concerned!

 

[Duke787]

Are you saying that if we had agreed to that the company would not have filed?

Nobody knows for sure what AA would have done if the 3 unions would have come to agreements with AA. But we do know if we would have voted in that TA we would have $9k + in our pockets. It's time to be realistic with the membership and not going by the theory. We are in the worst economy sense the depression now our company is in BK protection, and we have very little negotiating power.

 

[Buck]

Nobody knows for sure what AA would have done if the 3 unions would have come to agreements with AA. But we do know if we would have voted in that TA we would have $9k + in our pockets. It's time to be realistic with the membership and not going by the theory. We are in the worst economy sense the depression now our company is in BK protection, and we have very little negotiating power.

If the current president would have and still can wield his power for labor, then the whole pension would go away. We were told for years to vote for labor canidates of those that the union supported. Then I personally was told that we were supporting labor friendly republicans. Now I want to know which is going to save our pension.

We may have very little negotiatig power, but Jim Little is going to fight like hell...........

 

[Duke787]

If the current president would have and still can wield his power for labor, then the whole pension would go away. We were told for years to vote for labor canidates of those that the union supported. Then I personally was told that we were supporting labor friendly republicans. Now I want to know which is going to save our pension.

We may have very little negotiatig power, but Jim Little is going to fight like hell...........

Little had the foresight to hire a top notch experianced BK law firm a while ago..........we should all support the TWU, and act as one right now.

 

[Bob Owens]

Nobody knows for sure what AA would have done if the 3 unions would have come to agreements with AA. But we do know if we would have voted in that TA we would have $9k + in our pockets. It's time to be realistic with the membership and not going by the theory. We are in the worst economy sense the depression now our company is in BK protection, and we have very little negotiating power.

Well if you were under 50 that $9k would have cost you your Prefunding, in my case it's $13k and my contributions were after tax. We probably would have seen the Class II cities lose with the doubling of the ASMs and the base would have SMAs in place among other things. With already agreeing to a DC plan for new hires we would have a harder time fighting to preserve our DB in BK.

If we had agreed to that TA we would have gone into BK even lower than we are and having recently agreed to less than industry standard as far as pay, sick time, vacation, Holidays etc what agreement could you put forward in BK?

 

[TWU informer]

Is "retro still on the table" Bob?
Was AA "bluffing" about BK?

You have single handedly evented a new TWU ideology.

Instead of the long staple of the TWU known as "Hey, I've Got Mine, Brother", now we have nobody getting their's and instead it is "Hey, I've screwed you too, Brother"! So now nobody wins and you call that success.

Or more like
"An Injustice To All, is now Justice for One"

 

[Buck]

Little had the foresight to hire a top notch experianced BK law firm a while ago..........we should all support the TWU, and act as one right now.

Did the Internatiional consider hiring this top notch experienced BK law firm in 2003? We have been supporting the TWU since all of us have been here. Now it is time for ROI. As far as acting as one, where does being near the bottom is compensation place us?

 

[Duke787]

Well if you were under 50 that $9k would have cost you your Prefunding, in my case it's $13k and my contributions were after tax. We probably would have seen the Class II cities lose with the doubling of the ASMs and the base would have SMAs in place among other things. With already agreeing to a DC plan for new hires we would have a harder time fighting to preserve our DB in BK.

If we had agreed to that TA we would have gone into BK even lower than we are and having recently agreed to less than industry standard as far as pay, sick time, vacation, Holidays etc what agreement could you put forward in BK?

Are you saying that we will get a better contract then the failed TA during BK? I believe we currently have below industry standard, pay, SK, VC and holidays. That would have all changed with the last TA. Now instead of getting x2 pay on Christmas we'll be getting x1.5

from an earlier post....you said
"Sure, once we get our retro those guys will leave. Now they are also sticking around to make sure that the pension and retiree medical isn't voted away as well."

what makes you tthink we're getting retro pay along with being able to vote on saving retirment health and pension?

 

[Mr Red]

If the current president would have and still can wield his power for labor, then the whole pension would go away. We were told for years to vote for labor canidates of those that the union supported. Then I personally was told that we were supporting labor friendly republicans. Now I want to know which is going to save our pension.

We may have very little negotiatig power, but Jim Little is going to fight like hell...........

Labor friendly REPUBLICONS,that was a joke right !

 

[Buck]

Labor friendly REPUBLICONS,that was a joke right !

Ask the TWU......

 

[787nightmare]

Labor friendly REPUBLICONS,that was a joke right !

Red...whether it's the Democrips or Republibloods...neither represents the American people anymore.

 

[Boomer]

Little had the foresight to hire a top notch experianced BK law firm a while ago..........we should all support the TWU, and act as one right now.

Why should I support the TWU, or AMR: we were told that the concessions of 2003 secured our pensions and the jobs of our fellow TWU brothers, that was not true.

Since 1983 the TWU has led the entire M&R Airline Industrial Occupational group into a downward spiral; we have agreed to terms of employment that caused others to go to greater lengths just to match our concessions.

During all of that time; the TWU International has increased the numbers and compensation of those that own all of our contracts without concessions in their rates of pay, hours of work and working conditions.

They lead, I bleed.

Don't Be A Tool: "We'll Get'em Next Time" is the spoof for a Fool.

 

[Goey]

Why should I support the TWU, or AMR: we were told that the concessions of 2003 secured our pensions and the jobs of our fellow TWU brothers, that was not true.

Since 1983 the TWU has led the entire M&R Airline Industrial Occupational group into a downward spiral; we have agreed to terms of employment that caused others to go to greater lengths just to match our concessions.

During all of that time; the TWU International has increased the numbers and compensation of those that own all of our contracts without concessions in their rates of pay, hours of work and working conditions.

They lead, I bleed.

Don't Be A Tool: "We'll Get'em Next Time" is the spoof for a Fool.

Thank you very much Boomer!!!