AA Management Bonuses - Despite More Losses

[Bob Owens]

Bill' date='Jan 12 2006, 10:46 PM' post='341649']
Did you just give me a compliment Bobby????

Come on now, you've been spouting off about this crap for 2 1/2 yrs now and frankly it's getting old. Regarding Mr. Little's pay increase, the internat'l leadership does not simply give themselves a raise whenever they feel like it. And you know the answer to this, you are just trying to stir some sh** up, Jim's compensation is based on the average increase of the contracts (that you can view on the ATD web site if you so choose) that he represents not based on just the TWU/AA agreement. It is not that hard to figure out.

Well the fact is that while the rules are outlined as to how top union officials pay is calculated they dont release the figures. But do you really expect any of us to believe that the average increase for TWU members was 8%, especially when over 30,000 took at 25% cut in compensation that year? So yea it is hard to figure out how Little gets an 8% increase when nearly a quarter of the membership just took a massive cut.

And about the "kickbacks", you've been screaming about this for years as well and have never posted any proof to back your statements up. Put up or shut up Bobby!!

Well actually I have, you just chose to ignore it.

You know good and well that the internat'l positions are paid by the TWU and subsequently reimbursed by the company. But you know this too.

Is that why the company claimed they pay the TWU $3.1 million a year? The fact is that that I dont know if the International has ever paid them back, there is nothing on the LM-2 nor were they filing LM-10s or 30s.

If the Intnl pays the company back explain why both Gless and Yingst told members that they took paycuts too.

You are making more mountians out of molehills (AGAIN!!!).

So in other words its true, just you dont think its a big deal that your union accepts payments from the company.

Whatever came of all those threats you were making about "telling" on the TWU. Who was it you were going to, the DOL?? There was someone else but I can't seem to remember. Maybe you can refresh my memory and give me the fruits of your labor, if you have any!!!!

Well actually I already have gone to the DOL, they say they are still investigating it. Part of it could be the letter the DOL sent out informing unions to file their LMs by August 15.

informer, How does this rate on your venting of opinions scale???.....See below
They really dont care if we find out about this because we cant remove them anyhow, however Gary Yingst was VERY VERY concerned during his deposition that we would release his home address,which is understandable given that there are a lot of people carrying guns in Oklahoma, in fact the lawyers for the TWU asked the court for an injunction barring me from disclosing anything from the depositions.

How does it rate? FACTUAL!

 

[James T. Kirk]

Knock Knock, the AMFA drive at AA is over. Please remain on topic. If wish to continue the AMFA bashing fine, but please open your own thread to do that.

Gee informer, I didn't know that stating facts was bashing everything I stated are facts. You try to stay on topic.

 

[TWU informer]

Knock Knock, the AMFA drive at AA is over. Please remain on topic. If wish to continue the AMFA bashing fine, but please open your own thread to do that.

Gee informer, I didn't know that stating facts was bashing everything I stated are facts. You try to stay on topic.

You still don't get it do you?

Nobody said anything about your post being a lie or not having merit.

YOUR POST WAS SIMPLY OFF TOPIC.

You could post anti-AMFA information and back it up with 12 documents, and you still would be off topic.

DO YOU GET IT NOW?

If not, then take some time off and get some education.

By the Way,

Dont you find it interesting that the anger about the management bonuses is nowhere to be seen now?

Ed Wilson ( Previous Local 514 President) told me long ago, that the Tulsa base mechanics have about a ten day attention span. He said no matter what the subject, even if extremely angered, the membership cannot sustain that anger without leadership intervention or more prodding by management. So, most of the time, the corporate union leadership and management will remain quiet, and the problem goes away by itself.

Management Bonuses appear to apply to this very long standing Tulsa Base 10 day rule.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Dont you find it interesting that the anger about the management bonuses is nowhere to be seen now?

No, anger is still there if you know where to look. Morale is even lower. More and more good workers are just showing up for the paycheck, just doing enough to keep getting paid. There are still some motivated employees, but they are becoming more frustrated and discouraged. We are all dead men walking, and know it. This bonus thing is just one more insult from the company. Each one benefits the top 100 suits, but it costs the company and stockholders a lot.

 

[Bob Owens]

Knock Knock, the AMFA drive at AA is over.

Over, or just in hiatus?

WW has it right. Most show up just for the paycheck and those who are "motivated" are getting burnt out. Management bonuses only make them look more foolish and dispel any validity whatsoever to "Pull together-Win together". As they go out there busting their buts in the hopes of getting their $25 per qtr leap check the execs get themseleves six figure bonuses.

Productivity continues to decline, more airplanes that could be fixed sit on the ground. Tulsa will not reach the $500 million. As the Informer mentioned, the 10 day rule appies, to positive as well as negative.

What will be the companys response?

Perhaps spin off overhaul , perhaps all of maintenace, into a new company, not an air carrier, thus not under the RLA, then the company would be free to address each locality according to its needs. AA knows that they cant compete with Timco if they are paying their overhaul mechanics $30/hr while Timco is paying $20. They know they cant compete with SWA , who pay their mechanics $37/hr. Everyone knows that even at $20 an hour the guys in Tulsa or MCI could live quite well, (certainly better than their "brothers" at the coasts at $30/hr) and they would not produce any less than they are now. However they know if they only pay their line guys $30 with the crappiest benifits in the industry that the guys will not produce. Dependability will continue to go down the toilet and the costs for leased aircraft go up. "Frequencies" are placed throughout the system in order to be used should a pilot, or mechanic (more likely the later since most of the pilots are still "pulling together") have to write up an item that grounds an aircraft.

As the schedule picks up,and with all the Airbuses scheduled to be returned by 2008, there will be less "spares" throughout the system. Threats will fly, but productivity will continue to decline. Most with 1998 or less are already gone, so what are they going to threaten the guys in New York with? "We will shut NY down"? Well the most Junior guys are from the midwest, so they get laid off in NEW York, collect New York unemployment, around $400/week, and get to stay home and look for a new career. If it gets to the older guys who own homes they get to cash in on their homes plus have the company pay the $12500 for relocating. My guess is that the cheapest home would sell for at least $400,000.

One real plus to the spinning off of all maintenace is that once out from under the RLA the line guys could rid themselves of the TWU.

 

[Bob Owens]

WW brings up a good point about morale and its effects on the bottom line. Its no secret that there is "down time" in line operations but a sizable percentage of the guys used to have a "Pit Crew" mentality in that they looked at maintenance items as a challenge. They took pleasure and satisfaction in seeing how fast they could diagnose and fix somthing, often in competition with other mechanics. I've heard mechanics ask "how long did it take you to change that IDG" etc in order to compare their abilities to others. Sure there were always those that didnt care but there were always a decent percentage that did, not anymore.

So as airplanes sit broke for longer periods of time often mechanics can hear management say "What about the poor passengers who will be inconvienced?" The first thoughts that pass through their minds are: "Do you mean the same passengers that you are telling us are willing to put us on the unemployment line in order to save a dollar on their ticket?" " The same passengers that you are telling us demand that we work for less and less and are willing to cross our picket lines should we strike?" "The same passenger who could care less about quality or our working conditions?" " The same passengers that we had to give up 25% of our compensation in order for them to fly cheaply?"

Its so hypocritical how in one breath management will tell us that passengers are demanding cheap fares that can only be provided by workers accepting pay cuts and losing benifits but then say that those same workers should go above and beyond so those same pasengers are not inconvienced.

Here is something else to think about. In an article about the mechanic in El Paso who was injested into the engine of a Continerntal 737 it said this:

Many of the passengers were interested in finding out what happened, where their luggage was and how they could book another flight.

So as that poor soul was undoubtably rushing around for an on-time departure he lost his life and the passengers he was trying to make sure were not inconvienced are looking for their luggage, how nice!

I can hear the announcement now: "Ladies and gentelemen we apologize for the inconvience but as soon as we get done washing off what remains of the mechanic who caused this delay from your luggage we will have them at carosel D."

I suppose some still feel that mechanic and his family should be thankful that he had a job. May he rest in peace.

Remember "Safety" first and last and everything in between.

 

[Bob Owens]

Regarding Mr. Little's pay increase, the internat'l leadership does not simply give themselves a raise whenever they feel like it. And you know the answer to this, you are just trying to stir some sh** up, Jim's compensation is based on the average increase of the contracts (that you can view on the ATD web site if you so choose) that he represents not based on just the TWU/AA agreement. It is not that hard to figure out.

So tell us how is Jim Littles TWU salary determined again?

The fact is that the Constitution only says “Each Vice-President shall be compensated at the rate fixed by the International Executive Councilâ€￾. (ArtVIISect2).

You would think you would know the Constitution of the organization you support. So his pay raise was not due to members getting a raise but simply because the council says so. Perhaps as reward for screwing us over or compensation to make up for his losses from his AA paycheck?

Only the President and the Treasurer use the convoluted, vauge â€￾weighted average percentage increasesâ€￾ formula.

Weighted-how? Are decreases calculated in?

How about step raises? Are very low starting wages another scam that the International put in place to inflate their salaries? With long progressions and step increases the International can grant themselves increases while freezing or lowering full pay.

Once again we see lies and disinformation from those who claim to support the International, why is it that they always have to lie?

 

[Hopeful]

Did Little and Company take a 17.5% paycut?
Did Little and Company lose one week's vacation?
Did Little and Company lose double time?
Did Little and Company lose 5 holidays?
Did Little and Company lose double time and a half for holdays?
Does Little and Company lose half a days pay for the first two sick days?

 

[Bob Owens]

Did Little and Company take a 17.5% paycut?
Did Little and Company lose one week's vacation?
Did Little and Company lose double time?
Did Little and Company lose 5 holidays?
Did Little and Company lose double time and a half for holdays?
Does Little and Company lose half a days pay for the first two sick days?

When Bobby Gless was President of Local 562 he would stay home when sick and still get full pay without even being charged for a sick day. I would imagine that International officers and reps have the same deal, full pay when sick and of course they still have all their Holidays off and vacation intact.

Information I've recieved indicates that Gless and Yingst claim that they took paycuts. The LM-2s do not reflect any paycuts so that means that they must have seen their paycheck from American Airlines cut. The question is, why would AA be paying these guys since they are full time International reps? Kind of clears up why they are so pro-company. In addition to the six figures recieved from our dues through the TWU an extra $60k from the company is added (monies that were not disclosed as per the LMRDA), lets also not forget that as long as one is on AA payroll one will accumulate more towards their AA pension in addition to the very generous TWU pension. The company made it clear that if they didnt get all the concessions back in 2003 that they were going to kill "company paid union business" and all that goes with it. In fact it was one of the very few things on "the Vermont Plan" that the company did not get.

So these International officers stood to lose a lot by not jamming those concessions down our throats.Its not inconcievable that the first thing the BK judge would have approved is the elimination of these payments. So they could have either fought for us, and lost this big, undisclosed perk, or play ball with the company and only lose 17.5% of their secret check. In other words a total of a 30% cut vs 6% cut. We all know what they chose. With that in mind its quite understandable why these same union officials are going all across the country selling that union busting scheme they have bought into with the company to all the Locals.

Interestingly since I put all this out on the Internet Sue Oliver, head of HR, Gregg Hall, head of maint, and Art Luby-counsel to the TWU, all people who likely would have been aware of these payments but not gaining directly from them have all left.

 

[Paul]

....

By the Way,

Dont you find it interesting that the anger about the management bonuses is nowhere to be seen now?

....

I do find it funny how this has gone from AA Management bonuses to Union kick-backs.

I do not mind if you discuss unions and whom is getting what monies from who. Just start another topic to do such.

Thanks

 

[TWU informer]

I do find it funny how this has gone from AA Management bonuses to Union kick-backs.

I do not mind if you discuss unions and whom is getting what monies from who. Just start another topic to do such.

Thanks

Seems you are implying that I have gone off topic.

I think not. I am not the one involved in "union kick-back" discussions at all.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

I do find it funny how this has gone from AA Management bonuses to Union kick-backs.

I do not mind if you discuss unions and whom is getting what monies from who. Just start another topic to do such.

Thanks

back on topic

Late yesterday, the Transport Workers Union (TWU), Allied Pilots Association (APA), and the Association of Professional Flight Attendants (APFA), filed separate presidential grievances in response to the AMR Executive bonus plan. The 2003-2005 Performance Unit Plan (PUP), as I mentioned in previous correspondence, will be extended to approximately 1000 management personnel. As part of our submission, we have requested that the grievances be combined and expedited.

The basis for our grievance is as follows:

A key element to the restructuring agreement in 2003 was the Annual Incentive Program (AIP) ? The purpose of AIP was to align compensation of both management and line employees. The TWU agreement 47-1 specifically states:



Any ?cash bonus? compensation plans for management employees shall be based primarily on criteria and thresholds contained in the Annual Incentive Formula. Any cash compensation program for management not based on such criteria and thresholds may pay no more than 20% of the maximum possible cash that was or could have been earned by the individual management employee under the Annual Incentive Formula.



The TWU, APFA, APA believes that the announced cash payments from the Performance Unit Plan clearly fall outside both the contractual letter and spirit of the AIP.

Our Local leadership and members are already committed to the ?working together? program, and have made a substantial investment to the survival of the Company. We still believe that the best solution is one that is mutually achieved by the parties.

I am hopeful that we can resolve the bonus issue to our mutual satisfaction in an expeditious manner, and that we renew the challenges facing our industry and our respective carriers. As always, we will keep you informed of the grievance status.

Copies of all correspondence is available on our website at www.TWUATD.org.



Fraternally,



James C. Little

Director Air Transport Division

Intl. Executive Vice President

 

[AMFAMAN]

An ongoing poll at DFW NBC 5 on AA executive bonuses


To vote
http://www.nbc5i.com/firstatfour/index.html

Results below

http://www.nbc5i.com/firstatfour/index.html# :down: :down: :down:

Should executives at financially-troubled American Airlines receive a bonus?
Choice Votes Percentage of 109 Votes
Yes 4 4%
No 105 96%
Thanks for taking part in our opinion poll.

 

[enough already]

back on topic

Late yesterday, the Transport Workers Union (TWU), Allied Pilots Association (APA), and the Association of Professional Flight Attendants (APFA), filed separate presidential grievances in response to the AMR Executive bonus plan. The 2003-2005 Performance Unit Plan (PUP), as I mentioned in previous correspondence, will be extended to approximately 1000 management personnel. As part of our submission, we have requested that the grievances be combined and expedited.

The basis for our grievance is as follows:

...

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! The twu is peeved. They've gone an filed a big bad grievance? I guess I'll start deciding how I'm going to spend the remuneration we'll receive from that lame action.

**Moderator Note: Please refrain from quoting a lengthy post. It just makes it easier for everyone to read follow-on posts. Thank you.**

 

[Bob Owens]

And I suppose theywill bring this forward right after the Force Majeure Grievance.

By the way what ever happened to that? Its only been 4 years!