Amfa Vs. Twu Debate

[Steve Connell]

What the TWU was thinking in flying their flag with the company I do not know, nor do I judge. Personally I would have requested one of my PM brothers to erect another pole alongside the AA, the union does build the business. It is the labor that produces or loses money. The union does delegate recognition.

Raptor, believe this to be true, we at TWA are sick and tired of concessions also. That has been our middle name for years. We chose to concede rather than be idle, tough decision, no win solution. We understand your grief but look through weathered eyes, we have been through what you only worry about, yet here we are. Truthfully, I do not consider myself a winner, I consider myself a survivor. Do you believe that good things and times come in cycles? Perhaps this is the cycle for the companies of America, not American, to have the upper hand. Our industry leaves a lot to be desired presently. God assist our children.

 

[Raptor]

Now see is'nt this more of a fair and comfortable debate forum for Mechanic, Fair because we are all being paid the same thing to be here, Nothing
More comfortable because we can debate from our own homes and do other things at the same time.

We Mechanics debate each other everyday here why go to a building ?
pointless just pointless

 

[mojo13]

You have a very small crowd here. These are only opinions of a very few. Most mechanics have better things to do with their time.

P.S. Go over to the USAviation/American site and see the news clip I put there.

 

[Buck]

You have a very small crowd here. These are only opinions of a very few. Most mechanics have better things to do with their time.

P.S. Go over to the USAviation/American site and see the news clip I put there.

Small crowd?

So what is the difference from this to the Local 514 renting a room that holds 250 members?

And then having the meetings at times incompatable with members time off.

 

[mojo13]

Last amfa meeting I remember at the Brady could have been held there. Poor showing for such an advertised event!

 

[Bob Owens]

What the TWU was thinking in flying their flag with the company I do not know, nor do I judge. Personally I would have requested one of my PM brothers to erect another pole alongside the AA, the union does build the business. It is the labor that produces or loses money. The union does delegate recognition.

Raptor, believe this to be true, we at TWA are sick and tired of concessions also. That has been our middle name for years. We chose to concede rather than be idle, tough decision, no win solution. We understand your grief but look through weathered eyes, we have been through what you only worry about, yet here we are. Truthfully, I do not consider myself a winner, I consider myself a survivor. Do you believe that good things and times come in cycles? Perhaps this is the cycle for the companies of America, not American, to have the upper hand. Our industry leaves a lot to be desired presently. God assist our children.

So now its Gods fault!

 

[AMFAMAN]

We have a division of the house. American must love it.

Please, like they can hurt us anymore than they already have? AA and the TWU are all about dividing, line vs. overhaul, title group vs. title group, TWA vs. AA. I look forward to a union that wants to unite because it has been way too long since we have been.

 

[Hackman]

Please, like they can hurt us anymore than they already have? AA and the TWU are all about dividing, line vs. overhaul, title group vs. title group, TWA vs. AA. I look forward to a union that wants to unite because it has been way too long since we have been.

We can only hope that once AMFA gets in, the twu true believers will stop with the lies,(like 50% laidoff at NWA) hate,(calling AMFA supporters scabs) and threats, (making bomb threats at a school because of a AMFA meeting).

Unfortunately, like the iam diehards at NWA that lost thier cozy permanent union careers, they will continue to spew their garbage until the last dog dies. Go to the AMFAnuts website and see a few poor iam fools in action, its so funny its almost sad.

When I was on my unpaid twu vacation over the holidays, I stayed at the home of one of my NWA buddies for a few days, some of whom are laid off. I asked them if they would ever want the iam back, even being out. The answer? A resounding NEVER, no iam EVER again is what all three said. All three were confident they would be recalled at full pay. Meanwhile I told them laidoff AA mechanics are being recalled for OSM positions (AA is having a hard time getting anyone to come back at OSM wages, the twu swore this would never happen). I informed my NWA friends of the content of the brutal concessions we were forced to swallow by the twu/company for 6 years, they could not believe it. They all agreed we at AA would have done better in chapter 11. "Why do you guys still have the twu?" one asked. I simply said, "I couldn't give you a logical answer, because I just don't understand it myself".

Your time at AA has run out twu!!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

We have a division of the house. American must love it.

Actually Sonny Hall loves it.

Despite his rhetoric Sonny loves to divide and conquer. Maybe thats why we have so many locals. If you take Local 100 out of the equation the average Local in the TWU is less than 1000 members. Sonny even tried to split up Local 100. The members rejected him.

Sonny even gets the companies in on it. Why not? They are the ones that benifit from it. Here at AA the company actually pays the Presidents wages. As far as I know its illegal for union officials to be paid by the company.

 

[mojo13]

I'll bet Sonny doesn't care as long as the people he has delegated to run the ATD are doing it right.

 

[Steve Connell]

Bob, what kind of shape is your local in? And whose fault is it if it is not the local you desire? You lay blame everywhere except at yourself and other mechanics. And Bob, I stated God assist our children. Meaning our children will have to change professions and suffer in ways we have not, may God help them, now spin that big boy. Where did you read I blamed God?, you're big on picking away at what people post and in doing so you show your arrogance matches your physique. You may be a self proclaimed saint and miracle worker in NY but not here. However Bob, I was glad to see you keep it to one sentence, you on a patch?

The more blatant division we witness here is thrown at us by management, not the unions. They used to tell us "produce or the work will go south", that threat is gone now, work went south regardless. I see base pitted against base for work, different than what we had at TWA, we only had one O/H plant so it was not an issue.

If AMFA would get in at AA I do not believe you'd have to worry about a split floor. Those that voted for AMFA and wanted it so bad will more than likely be furloughed at first contract signing. Actually I do not believe any mechanics were furloughed from NWA, it's just a hoax by the TWU to confuse those in the cheese lines. Are your friends making a good living away from NWA? I do hope for them the best. Oh yeah, what percentage are furloughed according to AMFA? 10000-5000=?

 

[Rusty]

The twu/atd changed the date on their web page from 2003 to 2004. How can a letter that has already been sent change???

Here is TWU informer's screen capture of the original.

Original letter

Here is the twu/atd site

Altered letter

Could it be that this letter was put together hastily??? lmao

Fools I tell ya fools.

TeamTWU's theroy of a real debate:

Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

TO STEVE CONNELL,

IS IT TRUE THAT YOU ARE A PRODUCTION SUPERVISOR AT MCI? If you are or were ,then you are the perfect TWU officer. A double agent working for the EVIL TWU and the company, which in this case is the same thing.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, what kind of shape is your local in? And whose fault is it if it is not the local you desire? You lay blame everywhere except at yourself and other mechanics. And Bob, I stated God assist our children. Meaning our children will have to change professions and suffer in ways we have not, may God help them, now spin that big boy. Where did you read I blamed God?, you're big on picking away at what people post and in doing so you show your arrogance matches your physique. You may be a self proclaimed saint and miracle worker in NY but not here. However Bob, I was glad to see you keep it to one sentence, you on a patch?

The more blatant division we witness here is thrown at us by management, not the unions. They used to tell us "produce or the work will go south", that threat is gone now, work went south regardless. I see base pitted against base for work, different than what we had at TWA, we only had one O/H plant so it was not an issue.

If AMFA would get in at AA I do not believe you'd have to worry about a split floor. Those that voted for AMFA and wanted it so bad will more than likely be furloughed at first contract signing. Actually I do not believe any mechanics were furloughed from NWA, it's just a hoax by the TWU to confuse those in the cheese lines. Are your friends making a good living away from NWA? I do hope for them the best. Oh yeah, what percentage are furloughed according to AMFA? 10000-5000=?

Supervisor Steve;

I have no problem with our Local. The problems I have with this Union lies beyond our Local, where all the important decisions are made, beyond electoral accountability. My problems with this Union are with the International, the unelected dictators who take our money and own our contract.

You say that I lay the blame everywhere else. OK Steve who is to blame for the twenty years of concessionary contracts that the union told the members to accept? Please be specific.

And why will our children suffer Steve? Perhaps because their parents never had the courage to fight back? Instead of fighting to improve things we accepted less and less because we did not have the guts to stand up and fight?

I often heard top union officials complain about the "lack of participation" being the cause of our decline. They claimed that they could have brought back better contracts if the members had participated more but never say how. Never say how to participate or how it would have made a difference. The fact is that every concessionary agreement came back with the endorsement of the union, and was voted in, the one time in my career here at AA that the union recommended rejection the members rejected it, and that rejected agreement was far superior to what just got put in place.

So explain to me Steve, if the membership does exactly what the International told them to do then how can the membership be accused of not supporting the leadership? If the members have supported the leaders then whose fault is our decline?

Picking away? Why not? Are you saying that all your posts are objective and sincere? If you cant take it go back to using your alias. You need to learn the golden rule. "Do unto others as you would have do unto you". I try to follow that, however if that fails to make an impression then I follow the Brooklyn version of the golden rule "do to them as they do to you".

We have come to expect the company to keep us split up, however we should expect to see our union fight against this. The fact is that our Union was involved in a committee with the company that made base compete against base and station competes against station. The threat was if you did not meet the company's expectation at this station they would move the work to another station. Bobby Gless was on this committee. As president of Local 562 he encouraged his members to work harder so they could take checks away from other stations. Other local Presidents fell into this same trap. All of this came down through the International. You can blame the company, but we do not pay the company to look out for our best interests, we do however pay the TWU.


Did NWA have 10,000 A&P mechanics? Wow! NWA has what, 200 airplanes and they had 10,000 A&P mechanics!? AA has around 800 airplanes and they only have about 10000 A&P mechanics. So NWA had around 50 A&P mechanics per airplane and still has around 25 A&P mechanics per airplane while AA has around 12 A&P mechanics per airplane.

So using your figures of 10,000-5000 NWA would have to lay off another 2000 A&P mechanics to get their ratio down to ours. At that point they would be equal to us as far as A&P mechanic per aircraft.

 

[Hackman]

Bob, what kind of shape is your local in? And whose fault is it if it is not the local you desire? You lay blame everywhere except at yourself and other mechanics. And Bob, I stated God assist our children. Meaning our children will have to change professions and suffer in ways we have not, may God help them, now spin that big boy. Where did you read I blamed God?, you're big on picking away at what people post and in doing so you show your arrogance matches your physique. You may be a self proclaimed saint and miracle worker in NY but not here. However Bob, I was glad to see you keep it to one sentence, you on a patch?

The more blatant division we witness here is thrown at us by management, not the unions. They used to tell us "produce or the work will go south", that threat is gone now, work went south regardless. I see base pitted against base for work, different than what we had at TWA, we only had one O/H plant so it was not an issue.

If AMFA would get in at AA I do not believe you'd have to worry about a split floor. Those that voted for AMFA and wanted it so bad will more than likely be furloughed at first contract signing. Actually I do not believe any mechanics were furloughed from NWA, it's just a hoax by the TWU to confuse those in the cheese lines. Are your friends making a good living away from NWA? I do hope for them the best. Oh yeah, what percentage are furloughed according to AMFA? 10000-5000=?

Earl Steve,

My friends are doing just fine being away from NWA. One has been in the USAF reserve for some time and has unfortunately been activated to go to the sand box. Although they miss working on airplanes for NWA, they don't miss the nasty treatment from NWA management. NWA management is infamous for poor treatment of their employees, I hazard to say they're even worse than AA management.
A good thing they have AMFA to fight the ILLEGAL layoffs of M@R and job protection so the ATL mechanics could follow their work when NWA decided to close their base.

No matter what the numbers for layoffs are a NWA Earl, you will believe what ever the twu tells you. You don't know any better, you have not been duped by the twu for years like most of here on this BB have. When AMFA does get in here at AA, I exspect you'll jump ship again and get back into management. This is probably a smart move (at least until they fire you) since you can't come to the line because your a non-licensed mechanic, unable to transfer to the line operation.

If you believe you have been spared the axe by the company and the twu, you better guess again. Your MCI lease is renewable every year I believe, and AA could pull the rug out whenever they feel like it. It makes no sense to have three maintenance bases, one of which is old and in disrepair.

Keep on twu believein' Earl Steve, we wouldn't want it any other way.