Amfa Runs From Debate

[twuer]

AMFA represtn Mechanics and Related at 8 Airlines.

AMFA filed for an election at AA.

AMFA beat the TWU at Horizon Air.

The TWU is the most DOCILE UNION in the industry.

I hope you have the "No Election" Prediction on Video. Care to distribute that statemant as fact tommorow to the membership? Come on, LIE for us one more time before you leave!

You are putting words into my mouth again Dave. The things I say on these boards are my opinion and MY opinion only. Now, with that being said I still say you should have been at the "debate" today and got informed of a few things.

I don't care if amfa was at 20 airlines, their record speaks volumes on how they protect the profession. They protect it for a select few and could care less about the rest. Outsourcing and layoffs is what they will be "infamous" for!!



By the way, with the decrease in numbers at NWA, has Delle's salary decreased as well???? Oh and you didn't answer this question.....

So, tell me Dave, why do you think that Delle WILL NOT debate Jim Little on a one on one basis??? Why does he need someone else to do his talking?

Care to take a stab at it or will you pass on this one??????

 

[Decision 2004]

You are putting words into my mouth again Dave. The things I say on these boards are my opinion and MY opinion only. Now, with that being said I still say you should have been at the "debate" today and got informed of a few things.

I don't care if amfa was at 20 airlines, their record speaks volumes on how they protect the profession. They protect it for a select few and could care less about the rest. Outsourcing and layoffs is what they will be "infamous" for!!



By the way, with the decrease in numbers at NWA, has Delle's salary decreased as well???? Oh and you didn't answer this question.....

So, tell me Dave, why do you think that Delle WILL NOT debate Jim Little on a one on one basis??? Why does he need someone else to do his talking?

Care to take a stab at it or will you pass on this one??????

Exactly how does one "get informed" by listening to a known and proven liar?

Give AMFA 50 Years like the TWU has had instead of one contract negotiations that went to a PEB and let's see the track record.

Since de-regulation the TWU track record is pure concessions.

Of course you can get the retirees to support the TWU. "They got theirs brother", they got huge raises for a few at the expense of many (B-Scale 1983), they got "early out" packages 1983 and 1995 at the expense of many. You know all about a few getting more at the expense of a few because you have lived it at AA!

You have a hell of alot of nerve talking about a select few benefiting at the expense of the rest!

Tell Jim Little to offer the one-on-one debate format using the Sat-Sun dates for Overhaul and offer the MIA, JFK,ORD, SFO, LAX line station debates and watch what happens! You are kidding yourself if you think Delle is afraid of Jim. You, here hiding behind an alias have alot of nerve talking about acts of a coward!

Delles' letter indicated flexibility in working out the details, so have Jim Little respond with professional correspondence and watch what happens!

 

[twuer]

Exactly how does one "get informed" by listening to a known and proven liar?

Give AMFA 50 Years like the TWU has had instead of one contract negotiations that went to a PEB and let's see the track record.

Since de-regulation the TWU track record is pure concessions.

Of course you can get the retirees to support the TWU. "They got theirs brother", they got huge raises for a few at the expense of many (B-Scale 1983), they got "early out" packages 1983 and 1995 at the expense of many. You know all about a few getting more at the expense of a few because you have lived it at AA!

You have a hell of alot of nerve talking about a select few benefiting at the expense of the rest!

Tell Jim Little to offer the one-on-one debate format using the Sat-Sun dates for Overhaul and offer the MIA, JFK,ORD, SFO, LAX line station debates and watch what happens! You are kidding yourself if you think Delle is afraid of Jim. You, here hiding behind an alias have alot of nerve talking about acts of a coward!

Delles' letter indicated flexibility in working out the details, so have Jim Little respond with professional correspondence and watch what happens!

Exactly how does one "get informed" by listening to a known and proven liar?

People listen to you for information don't they Dave????

We all know that you (and amfa) could give a rat's a** about the retirees Dave. You and amfa have already proven that.

You have a hell of alot of nerve talking about a select few benefiting at the expense of the rest!

You have a hell of a lot of nerve trying to get amfa in at AA!!!

Tell Jim Little to offer the one-on-one debate format using the Sat-Sun dates for Overhaul and offer the MIA, JFK,ORD, SFO, LAX line station debates and watch what happens! You are kidding yourself if you think Delle is afraid of Jim.

I already know what would happen. . .Delle would make a few excuses and wouldn't show.

You, here hiding behind an alias have alot of nerve talking about acts of a coward!

And what. . .is Decision 2004 your given name at birth?? You're a joke!!!

Delle had his shot. . .twice and failed to show both times. We are in strong defense of our union at AA so we have every right to call the shots. We want no part of amfa and Delle wants no part of Jim Little.

 

[Decision 2004]

Whatever,

You are entitled to your opinion, and I, mine.

Watch what happens when the vote gets called.

Better yet, just watch for the Thursday update from AMFA National regarding the filing with the NMB. And don't forget to read the facts and be prepared to explain why a Corporation would place their credibility on the line to defend a union on the property!

You have no idea what we turned up, but you will know soon!


BTW, you seem to know who I am, so am I "hiding" behind an alias like you? Or are you just a common liar and you really do not know who I am?

 

[Checking it Out]

Keep up with your rhetoric!

Anyway the meetings today were great! Jim did an excellant job of answering the questions!

By the turnout of amfa it is quit obvious that we have done an excellant job of informing the members!

Dave we already know your strategy! You will surprise no one! Besides we know first hand what you are preparing to submit. Thanks for the info supplied earlier this week!

 

[twuer]

Whatever,

You are entitled to your opinion, and I, mine.

Watch what happens when the vote gets called.

Better yet, just watch for the Thursday update from AMFA National regarding the filing with the NMB. And don't forget to read the facts and be prepared to explain why a Corporation would place their credibility on the line to defend a union on the property!

You have no idea what we turned up, but you will know soon!


BTW, you seem to know who I am, so am I "hiding" behind an alias like you? Or are you just a common liar and you really do not know who I am?

Blah, blah blah. You keep making these threats, yet nothing happens. If you had enough cards like you claim a vote would have been called. I know a little more than you think I do. . .think about that!!!!

 

[Decision 2004]

Keep up with your rhetoric!

Anyway the meetings today were great! Jim did an excellant job of answering the questions!

So exactly what was Jim's answer regarding his conflicting written position papers on membership ratification of changes or amendments to the contract terms?

 

[Decision 2004]

Blah, blah blah. You keep making these threats, yet nothing happens. If you had enough cards like you claim a vote would have been called. I know a little more than you think I do. . .think about that!!!!

If you "knew" anything at all, you would know that it is completely impossible for an election to have already been called under the National Mediation Board Representation Manual.

The NBM is following the manual requirements, the eligibility is being determined, the participants and members of the craft-or-class is to be determined.

You have some evidence conflicting this fact, like a case "dismissed" statement from the NMB?

twuer, just because you pray and beg for something to be true, doesn't make it so.

Ask your imaginary friend CIO about the process, he likely knows more than you appear to know!

 

[Checking it Out]

You had the right to attend the meetings and ask those Questions!

Better yet, why not come next week and ask them?

 

[Raptor]

Well I was the only AMFA supporter at the 4:00pm meeting today so here is my side of the story on the meeting first off there were 200 people there and anyone who says otherwise is a flat out liarmany were from other Airlines no doubt former IAM officers there were many officers from several stations many looked to me like retirees also, basically there was only one question asked that was negative obout the TWU probably had something to do with the fact that there was only one AMFA supporter there, this was the question: my definition of Democracy is that the members vote on an issue and the majority wins is this your definition as well Jim, his reply was yes, then the question was that local 514 members voted down a new Union hall 4 times and the local leadership ( Randy Mcdonald ) said he was going to build it anyway, what do you think about that Jim, his reply was that the locals are autonomous and that the International does not get involved in local issues, the reply to that was well we are allways being told that we are the Union and if we are the Union when we vote no on something NO means NO period Jims reply was that we elected the officers to make certain decisions for us that are in our best interest, he then said that he does believe in democracy.

Basically in my opinion his answers were a bunch of crap and if he does not believe that the members are the Union and what they say goes then he does not believe in Democracy he believes in Dictatorship there is a difference
The questioner was then slammed by the next questioner as he asked a question that made the TWU look bad and that was unacceptable in this particular meeting, the original questioner tried to return to the mike to answer the slams but the moderator not being impartial as he was suppose to be did not allow it.

Basically the meeting was a complete joke, in my opinion what is happening is that most everybody has allready made up their minds as to what organization they are going to vote for that explains why Jim Little the Director of the ATD could come to a meeting and only 200 people show up, that is about half of what showed up to the last TWU meeting the same is happening at the AMFA meeting less and less people are showing up for these meetings, I think the message the membership is sending is clear we allready know what organization we are going to vote for whether it be TWU or AMFA and we don't need to hear anymore talk we are ready to vote, winner takes all.
Jim Little said only two things at this meeting that I agreed with one was that the TWU was not going to give anymore concessions that from now on the concessions will have to come from management, the second was that this was the last chance for ANY debates period.
He said there will be no more debates offered or accepted I was very glad to hear this as I for one am very tired of this back and fourth debate game, I said all along that neither side really wanted a debate and that the offers were nothing more than posturing on both sides, there is no way that Delle and Jim Little could ever agree on a place, time , moderator, and rules as to who could come etc. these debates never had a chance and we all know it, since the meeting attendees on both sides is dwindling I figure that the next AMFA meeting will probably have about 150 members since the last had 300 and the next TWU meeting will have about 100 members since this last one had 200 members, I will not be at anymore AMFA or TWU meeting as I like most people have allready made up my mind as to what group I am going to vote for and I do not need to see any debate or hear any more from meetings, The time for talking is over, Gentlemen we have had the oppertunity to hear from both sides and now it is time to vote and stop wasting money on meetings that no one goes to.

This of course if just my opinion

So please continue with the pointless back and fourth chicken taunts that have no merit in fact.
I know how both sides like to call each other chicken and I would not want to take that away from anyone

 

[twuer]

If you "knew" anything at all, you would know that it is completely impossible for an election to have already been called under the National Mediation Board Representation Manual.

The NBM is following the manual requirements, the eligibility is being determined, the participants and members of the craft-or-class is to be determined.

You have some evidence conflicting this fact, like a case "dismissed" statement from the NMB?

twuer, just because you pray and beg for something to be true, doesn't make it so.

Ask your imaginary friend CIO about the process, he likely knows more than you appear to know!

Then do tell us Dave, why all the hub-bub with the appeals and all the panic about "the list"??? You claim you have more than enough cards for an election with the perceived inflated numbers, yet you show the same desparation that seems to be coming straight out of Seham's mouth.

Like I said, I know a little more than what you give me credit for but I am not worried about you or amfa. I know what I know and will leave it at that!! :huh:

By the way, CIO is my real friend, not just an imaginary one. He has more unionism in his little finger than you do in your whole body. I think you are confusing my friends with yours!!!! (you should really stop setting yourself up for such abuse Dave!!)

 

[Decision 2004]

Then do tell us Dave, why all the hub-bub with the appeals and all the panic about "the list"??? You claim you have more than enough cards for an election with the perceived inflated numbers, yet you show the same desparation that seems to be coming straight out of Seham's mouth.

Like I said, I know a little more than what you give me credit for but I am not worried about you or amfa. I know what I know and will leave it at that!! :huh:

By the way, CIO is my real friend, not just an imaginary one. He has more unionism in his little finger than you do in your whole body. I think you are confusing my friends with yours!!!! (you should really stop setting yourself up for such abuse Dave!!)

Oh wow,

Are we going to compete and debate playground style?

Your grandma wears combat boots!

What did Jim Little say his answer was to the conflicting written position statements regarding membership ratification of changes or amendments to contract terms?

 

[Decision 2004]

From AMFA National Website

AMFA will be providing an American Airlines update tomorrow afternoon shortly after filing of the challenges and objections with the NMB.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Oh wow,

Are we going to compete and debate playground style?

Your grandma wears combat boots!

What did Jim Little say his answer was to the conflicting written position statements regarding membership ratification of changes or amendments to contract terms?

That is funny, You asking questions about what Jim Little said. Why weren't you there? You could of asked anything you would have liked. Were you skeert? Couldn't find anyone to stand in the lobby with you and hold your hand? Really Decision 2004....WHY/WHY/WHY....!!!!!!!

------------------------------------------
AMFA: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

 

[twuer]

Oh wow,

Are we going to compete and debate playground style?

Your grandma wears combat boots!

What did Jim Little say his answer was to the conflicting written position statements regarding membership ratification of changes or amendments to contract terms?

That specific question was not asked at either of the meetings today because you amfa boys were too scared to show up and face the music. But I will tell you this, what we do know is the President's Council voted unanimously NOT to go into BK, that includes the amfa supporting presidents, we also know that the membership ratified the agreement, we also know that the company was taking the legal position that the ratification vote had been completed Knowing all of this, if Jim Little had NOT signed the agreement Jim would have been doing explicitly what he had been directed NOT to do by the leaders of the locals across the system. Not only that, if you had read the 562 case you'd know that the district court judge agreed with what Jim Little did and with his interpretation of article 24 of our constitution. If these amendments to the agreement would have been seen as anything other than enhancements they would have had to be voted on. There are many times when the company is willing to give "enhancements" and we don't ratify them.

Oh, and your just jealous of my grandma's combat boots!! Lighten up Dave!!