Amfa Runs From Debate

[Decision 2004]

That specific question was not asked at either of the meetings today because you amfa boys were too scared to show up and face the music. But I will tell you this, what we do know is the President's Council voted unanimously NOT to go into BK, that includes the amfa supporting presidents, we also know that the membership ratified the agreement, we also know that the company was taking the legal position that the ratification vote had been completed Knowing all of this, if Jim Little had NOT signed the agreement Jim would have been doing explicitly what he had been directed NOT to do by the leaders of the locals across the system. Not only that, if you had read the 562 case you'd know that the district court judge agreed with what Jim Little did and with his interpretation of article 24 of our constitution. If these amendments to the agreement would have been seen as anything other than enhancements they would have had to be voted on. There are many times when the company is willing to give "enhancements" and we don't ratify them.

Oh, and your just jealous of my grandma's combat boots!! Lighten up Dave!!

I guess that is as good of an answer as anyone could bring, but what about this interpetation of the TWU Constitution?

 

[Dallas Air Mach]

Exactly how does one "get informed" by listening to a known and proven liar?



Received: 04/16/04 23:49:35 EDT
Name: Chuck Schalk
E-Mail:
Employer:
Location: JFK
Message:
Maintenance Repair and Overhaul conference

There is a maintenance repair and Overhaul (MRO) conference scheduled in Atlanta, Georgia on April20-22 2004. One of the main topics will be Aircraft Maintenance outsourcing focusing on Latin America. With all the emphasis on outsourcing where is theTWU, AFL/CIO, and locals 514,530,567 on this conference? Do their members know about this conference? What pro-active lead is the TWU and affiliates planning against these conferences? This would have been a great opportunity to protest this conference and get some press coverage of our concerns of Aircraft maintenance outsourcing. I guess the TWU leaders have a more important personal agenda that has higher priority.
Please see attachment as Local 530 officers and others will be attending this conference. I don’t understand, is the TWU for or against outsourcing by attending this conference? I think picketing the conference would have been a better pro-active anti-outsourcing approach.

Chuck schalk
Local 562/JFK

 

[Decision 2004]

The Concept of “Craft or Classâ€￾

This is Federal Legal concept “Craft or Classâ€￾

In accordance with the Railway Labor Act, the Federal Government has decided that certain work groups have a mutuality of interest at the bargaining table and in advancing worker related issues, and that groups outside of that particular craft or class should have no participation in how the union is run or at least in the initial decision as to who represents that work group. And so Pilots vote with Pilots, and Flight Attendants as matter of law are prohibited from voting with the Pilots. And in turn, the Pilots are prohibited by law from voting with the Flight Attendants because they are considered to be in different Craft or Classes by the National Mediation Board. And Mechanic and Related Workers within the Airline Industry are entitled by law to vote just amongst themselves.

Supporters of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) believe that it comprises our mission to remain associated within a union structure with other crafts or classes that according to Federal Government do NOT share our mutuality of interest. The mission is further compromised when we remain associated with other crafts or classes within the union structure of “majority ruleâ€￾ and our particular craft or class is the minority in size. The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA) is the only union in this current debate at American Airlines that says “We will forbid ourselvesâ€￾, it will be unconstitutional for us to go and represent baggage handlers, flight attendants, or passenger service clerks, and we will not let ourselves do that because this would compromise our mission. We wish the baggage handlers and other crafts or classes on the property the very best, but they cannot pick our pockets, we wish them to get the very best on their own, but they should no longer be allowed to ride on our backs. In other words, it is time for the airline industry to decouple the mechanic vs. baggage handler pay and benefit structure. It is suffice to say that since deregulation of the airline industry which since enactment has created enormous competition and pressure on airline ticket pricing, and that has resulted in the craft or class of mechanic and related workers suffering in economic buying power, and especially when compared to the Pilots and Flight Attendants who at American belong to craft specific unions. In the mid 1970’s, the Flight Attendants of American Airlines were also represented by the Transport Workers Union of American (TWU), and just as the mechanics today seek a change to a craft specific union, they also left the TWU in favor of the independent Association of Professional Flight Attendants (APFA) The craft or class of Mechanic and Related at American Airlines can no longer afford to remain in an organization that advocates a linking of different work groups that according to law do not share a mutuality of interest.

Regardless of good or bad economic times, and regardless of whether the union is negotiating concessions to prevent a bankruptcy filing or negotiating from economic growth with corporate profits, the formula by which the economic pie is divided amongst the union membership is a union decision. The recent concession are a clear case in point, because American Airlines was demanding $620 Million in concessions from the TWU, but how those give backs were divided up was a union decision, not a company decision. And the facts are clear, that the craft or class of Mechanic and Related at American took more than our fair share of that amount, and it is also clear this was a union decision.

AMFA IS THE RIGHT CHOICE FOR SKILLED TECHNICIANS

 

[Raptor]

What are you talking about AMFA was scared to show up I was there and asked a question I was not scared, I did get slammed on by someone who had allready asked his one question because he did not like my question, go figure, is that fair and impartial I guess the rules only apply to AMFA supporters not TWU supporters.

200 people is not a very impressive showing in my book, I counted.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Keep up with your rhetoric!

Anyway the meetings today were great! Jim did an excellant job of answering the questions!

By the turnout of amfa it is quit obvious that we have done an excellant job of informing the members!

Dave we already know your strategy! You will surprise no one! Besides we know first hand what you are preparing to submit. Thanks for the info supplied earlier this week!

THE twu SMELLS FEAR... AND IT IS THEIR OWN!

jim answered questions? Which questions? Did he answer when we will get our full revote? Did he answer why elected union officials were removed by appointed (unelected) officials? Did he answer why AMTs lose 1/2 days pay for calling in sick and the ramp does not? Did he answer why he did not attend the January 17th, 2004 offered debate in Tulsa? Did he answer why teamtwu paraded a coffin? Did he explain why the twu needs to hire a PR firm to promote the twu? Did he answer why Tulsa stewards were told to STOP saying there will not be an election?

I am glad that the paid for seat fillers at little's meeting was "great".

I am also glad that there will be an election between the twu & AMFA. But I will be even happier when AMFA DEFEATS the inept twu.

THE twu SMELLS FEAR... AND IT IS THEIR OWN!

 

[Raptor]

Ken none of these questions were asked, I have to agree with the TWU supporters on this point, anyone wanting to ask a question should have showed up and asked their question, I did show up and asked my question, I would have liked to ask more but they would not let me, if more AMFA supporters that wanted answers to their questions had showed up there would have been more questions answered and everyone would have benefited, I believe that this was the members last chance to get any answers from Jim Little.
I am not a Jim Little fan but we cannot say that he did not give us a chance to get some answers to some of our questions as he was here in Tulsa ready to let anyone who wanted to ask one question a chance to do so, those who did not take him up on the offer did not really want to hear what he had to say, and that is ok too.
The time to ask questions is over now it is JUST TIME TO VOTE.
Winner take all the [/B]MAJORITY WILL DECIDE.[/B]

It's called Democracy.

 

[twuer]

What are you talking about AMFA was scared to show up I was there and asked a question I was not scared, I did get slammed on by someone who had allready asked his one question because he did not like my question, go figure, is that fair and impartial I guess the rules only apply to AMFA supporters not TWU supporters.

200 people is not a very impressive showing in my book, I counted.

I commend you for coming Raptor!!! You have more guts than your other amfa buddies!!!

If you count the first meeting, which there were twice as many there at that one, then I would say that 600+ was a pretty good turn out. You (amfa) had what 200-250? And your meeting was on a Saturday!!

 

[Raptor]

No we had 300 I counted then too, It is hard for me to believe that more people showed up at the noon meeting than the 4:00pm meeting <_<

Were you at the 4:00pm meeting ?

If you were how many did you count at that meeting ? ( I am just trying to get a feel for how you do math as I know how many people were there )

depending on how many people you think were at the 4:00pm meeting will give me a good idea of whether you are telling the truth about the noon meeting if you say there were 600 altogether then that means 400 were at the noon meeting <_<

do you agree that there were 200 people at the 4:00pm meeting ? be honest there has been way to much lieing going on.
Remember I was at the meeting and I made it a point to count as I am getting real tired of the lieing with the numbers game.

Looking forward to your answers.

 

[twuer]

No we had 300 I counted then too, It is hard for me to believe that more people showed up at the noon meeting than the 4:00pm meeting <_<

Were you at the 4:00pm meeting ?

If you were how many did you count at that meeting ? ( I am just trying to get a feel for how you do math as I know how many people were there )

depending on how many people you think were at the 4:00pm meeting will give me a good idea of whether you are telling the truth about the noon meeting if you say there were 600 altogether then that means 400 were at the noon meeting <_<

do you agree that there were 200 people at the 4:00pm meeting ? be honest there has been way to much lieing going on.
Remember I was at the meeting and I made it a point to count as I am getting real tired of the lieing with the numbers game.

Looking forward to your answers.

You were at the noon meeting as well?? I agree that there were around 200 at the 4 o'clock meeting and stand by my presumption that there were about twice as many at the first meeting. I would guess 600-650 total at both meetings. If amfa supporters had showed there would have been more, don't you agree?? I'm not sure why they didn't!! They cry and cry about not getting answers and then when they are given the chance to ask questions they don't show. Boggles the mind!!!

 

[Fridays are Free]

31 NMB 12 page 53

DISCUSSION

I. Proper Craft or Class

In determining the proper craft or class for a group of employees, the Board considers a number of factors. These factors include functional integration, work classifications, terms and conditions of employment, and work-related community of interest. United Parcel Serv. Co., 30 NMB 84 (2002); Frontier Airlines, Inc., 29 NMB 28 (2001); United Airlines, Inc., 28 NMB 533 (2001); US Airways, Inc., 28 NMB 104 (2000).

It is particularly important that the employees share a work-related community of interest. Continental Airlines, Inc./Continental Express, Inc., 26 NMB 143 (1999); LSG Lufthansa Servs., Inc., 25 NMB 96 (1997); Airborne Express, Inc., 9 NMB 115 (1981). The Board makes craft or class determinations on a case by case basis, relying upon Board policy and precedent. US Airways, above; USAir, 15 NMB 369 (1988); Simmons Airlines, 15 NMB 124 (1988).

The Board has examined the proper scope of the craft or class of Mechanics and Related Employees in numerous decisions. United Parcel Serv. Co., above; US Airways, Inc., above; United Parcel Serv. Co., 27 NMB 3 (1999); Allegheny Airlines, Inc., 26 NMB 487 (1999). In United Airlines, Inc., 6 NMB 134 (1977), the Board, quoting National Airlines, Inc., 1 NMB 423, 428-29 (1947), described the composition of the Mechanics and Related Employees, in part, as follows:

A. Mechanics who perform maintenance work on aircraft, engine, radio or accessory equipment.

B. Ground service personnel who perform work generally described as follows: Washing and cleaning airplane, engine and accessory parts in overhaul shops; fueling of aircraft and ground equipment; maintenance of ground and ramp equipment; maintenance of buildings, hangars and related equipment; cleaning and maintaining the interior and exterior of aircraft, servicing and control of cabin service equipment, air conditioning of aircraft, cleaning of airport hangars, buildings, hangar and ramp equipment.

C. Plant maintenance personnel including employees who perform work consisting of repairs, alterations, additions to and maintenance of buildings, hangars, and the repair, maintenance and operation of related equipment including automatic equipment.

“The related employees . . . while of different skill levels from the mechanics, nonetheless are closely related to them in that they are engaged in a common function – the maintenance function. . . .â€￾ Eastern Air Lines, Inc., 4 NMB 54, 63 (1965) (emphasis added). It is this “functionalâ€￾ connection between mechanic classifications and those employees performing related maintenance operations that has historically formed a basis for their identity as a single craft or class. Id. See also Federal Express Corp., 20 NMB 360 (1993).

AMFA NOW!

 

[Raptor]

NO I was not at the noon meeting so if you agree there were 200 at the 4:00pm meeting and you have, then I guess I will take your word about the noon meeting as I was not there.

I agree I think if people wanted Jim Little to answer questions they should have showed up at the meeting.

Now that oppertunity is gone and probably will not return.
as I said the time for asking questions is over the only thing left to do is vote.

 

[Buck]

Raptor:

Per your signature, if there will be no debates why did you go?

 

[Thrustfuljet]

If you count the first meeting, which there were twice as many there at that one, then I would say that 600+ was a pretty good turn out. You (amfa) had what 200-250? And your meeting was on a Saturday!!

I was at the first meeting and I counted about 150, if that was twice as many as showed up at the second meeting then I would say yo had about 225 total.

How come the allowed a bus load from mci into the meeting? I recall when we had our contract meeting at the convention center down town they would not allow anyone from another station into the meeting. Why is that?

 

[Checking it Out]

Dan (Raptor) You answered the issue very well, Only thing is the Local Has put on hold any decision to build a New Hall. I ask of you to come on down and get involved. You will see the difference.

Also Jim stated he would like to have members sign up, to attend the stock holders meeting next month, to ask some serious questions concerning management pay.

Everyone in the system is encouraged to attend.

 

[local 12 proud]

cio, why would anyone care to show up and hear the famous twu answer "WE'LL THEY CAN DO THAT'' reply regarding company decision's regarding management pay? just another circus side show! :down: :down: :down: