AMFA Organizing Drive to Replace Association

[CremaDiLimone]

There are many in Title 2 that have skill sets on par with any aircraft mechanic. Like electricians for instance.

you don't need to tell me this, tell aa mngt.

aa mngt. believes they are expendable.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I thought the airport was responsible for maintaining the jetbridge. Is that incorrect?

not in my hub. they also repair miles of belts and just last week, they came out and fixed a clog in our sink and repaired the ice-machine.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

it depends what type of airline/company and level of service the company wants to promote.

i work in a hub and see the 'quality' of work done by contract ground handlers and despite the infinite greed of corporate america, they are intelligent enough to know that they need to pay to compete with delta and united. delta has proved this over time; rewarding non-union employees while aa did the same with passenger service, who were always on par/greater compensation with/than fleet, despite being non-union until the merger was finalized.

as far as compensation demands, the airlines' #2 expense, jet fuel, has been shattered by the shale/fracker revolution. the company has decided that this windfall will be shared with the shareholders. delta decided that it will be shared between employees and shareholders.

this is not 1898 working for the robber-barons. we can ask and expect more..no shame involved.

You really think we have moved beyond robber-barons?

You are fooling yourself.

Drive down any city street and you will see multibillion dollar companies staffed with minimum wage workers with no benefits.

I just read an article that stated Walmart costs taxpayers an estimated 6.2 billion dollars in taxes.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/clareo...-2-billion-in-public-assistance/#fc04d5720b7e

Basically the corporations have used the taxpayers to supplement their employee compensation. Those "everyday low prices" don't seem so low after you consider the cost to the taxpayers.

You think Walmart is the only corporation doing that?

If that is not a robber-baron (robbing the taxpayers blind) I don't know what is. No sir, we still live in the age or robber-barons they have just gotten better at hiding.




You say paying employees more provides a better experience for the customer? I say a lazy and incompetent employee will be so no matter what you pay them. Giving someone a 5 dollar raise does not gain the employer 5 dollars more worth of productivity. Studies have proven that time and time again. Throw in the UNION protecting the lazy and the incompetent (who here can honestly say they have not worked with someone the UNION protects that should have been fired years ago) and the problem gets even worse.

You say contractors do lousy work, I say we have had thievery and damage to property from very well compensated and careless UNION employees.




I will stick with my previous statement. If I was a Fleet Service Clerk doing a job that required no special skill and no education that paid me a good wage and had full benefits I would not be rocking the boat with demands. Truth is Fleet Service Clerks are highly replaceable and many would do the job for far less money.




You don't have to agree of course but you have said nothing that has changed my mind.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

if these were robber-baron days, we'd be living in makeshift huts made out of LD-8s, living in aa parking lots - paying them rent. no pinkerton guards beating us with batons to punch in on time.

as mentioned, delta made a decision to share it's jet fuel windfall with it's employees. they didn't have to and have no union to 'coerce' them for various workgroups.

aa has made a conscious decision NOT to share with employees and dump billions into stock buy-backs, rewarding the shareholders. the stock has tanked for various reasons and this only adds pressure.

as far as the rest, you're preaching to the choir. corporate america has ghostwritten much legislation and 'coercing' is that much more difficult. you're not telling me anything new.

 

[1AA]

So much for discussions on the AMFA organizing drive.
We drifted away again as usual.

 

[1986Mekanic]

Looks like the thread is officially spun.. To bring it back on track'

I heard from an organizer that LUS stations are wanting a loads of cards. Thats good news.

 

[Vortilon]

Because my wife is title I and I have a vested interest in the progress (or lack thereof) of the contract. You can hardly fault me for having an interest in a contract that could impact my finances and quality of life.

I agree wanting a UNION tailored to your skill set and sensitive to your unique needs is not elitist but, TWU informer's dismissive attitude certainly is. Don't try to justify his attitude.

Sounds logical to me.

You are entitled to your opinion but what you are not entitled to is monies not contractually owed to you. That is a fact. You have lost nothing. Deal with it. Just because you feel you are owed does not make it so.

Not hypocrisy, a result of fact, contract, and law.

Yes I see things that are unfair, however there are many things in life that are unfair. That's life.

It is absolutely a reach. You can't lose what you have no right to and your contract says you have no right. I am not saying that is fair only that it is the reality of the situation. Saying you have lost something you have no contractual right to is laughable and makes you look like a fool.

Of course not.

That is by design.

See the "important" people had to protect their interest and you had to pay the price. Welcome to the world or privatized gains and socialized losses.

You are entitled to your biased opinion, but you're spinning your wheels on here. I have no problem painting the picture to my fellow Mechanics and related when I speak of lost wages and benefits. It's about relating to them. Not contractually owed to us? Shortly after AA's last agreement with the flight attendants, Delta's F/As leap frogged AA's F/As in pay. Out of contract, Doug Parker gave AA's F/As another bump in pay because it "wasn't fair" our F/As fell behind. Obviously, we understand what is - as you put it "contractually owed to us". When I use that phrase regarding "lost pay and benefits", it's not meant to be taken literally. We also know double standards, and hypocrisy when we see it. Negotiating with the company to secure a better contract is hard enough as it is - even when it's only one title group.

If you care about your Wife's career, pay, & benefits, common sense would dictate, our push for AMFA should be something you should support. I'm stuck in the suck of the Association muck, and I will do whatever it takes to rid our title group of this AMT hating Association. Don't hate on me for that.

 

[swamt]

And this post helps us get cards signed how?

We can do without the help of some

And you wonder why most of title 2 will not sign a card. I have signed a card on every other AMFA drive in the last 30 yrs but I do not know if I should with this attitude from several of the people on this board.

My bad I forget sometimes how divided the groups are about going AMFA.
The "And Related would still be represented by the C&C AMFA. The only difference is the different groups would have their very own work rules and language to spacifictly cover their group. It's better this way for all groups as the different groups all have different issues and rules that need to spacifictly work for their groups. All the "Related" groups would still be represented by the AMFA, but that 'group" would have a say so and a part of what their work rules and language would be instead of a/c mechanics deciding for them, just like the a/c mechanics don't want other groups (like you all have now) deciding what is good or not good for them. This way all groups involved have their own say so about their own group.

 

[swamt]

Every AMFA Drive this happens.
I don’t have an A&P and the attitude and words of some damn sure cause me concern. I don’t have an answer for it. And damn sure can’t promise these people won’t stab the Related in the back! That’s a sad truth! I’ve bent over backwards to help them get a better union, and always someone throws their stupid golden wrench attitude in every thing.

Informer, I apologize for my earlier post. I did leave out some info that some at AA are not aware of and sometimes forget they really don't know how AMFA is ran. I hope I have clarified with my latter postings.
As long as all the groups within the "And Related" remain in the "And Related" they will be represented by AMFA. So no one can go rogue and try to stab anyone in the back. The other unions will spread that misinformation as a tactic. And no one is down talking any of the other groups on here. It's as simple as the Pilots and F/A's did and the "Mechanic And Related" also want their own C&C union to represent their needs and issues. The separate contract language, rules and details are done so they can better represent each and every group within the "And Related" and it is better for all groups involved as they will have a say so for their language affecting them, each and every group will vote on their own issues and concerns. Each group will work from the language for their groups. Mechanics will vote on mechanic issues, title 1 will vote on their issues, facilities will vote on their issues, MC will vote on their issues and so on. It's stabbing anyone in the back. It's better representing each and all the groups within the "And Related" It's better for all involved. Let the TWU and IAM continue representing the groups that do not fall within the NMB's definition of "And Related". And they too are not getting stabbed in the back either, they will still be represented by their current TWU/IAM/Asso. just as they are now, nothing will change for them.
Our FM, instructors, and MC all did separate record drives for each group to get into AMFA. They all see the benefits of being represented by a C&C AMFA representation. All these groups have better benefited since coming onboard with AMFA, but they all have separate work rules, language issues and details all written specifically for their work groups as us mechanics have nothing to do with their work issues, it only affects them and we do say how they should work and they don't say how we should work.
Informer, I know you know all this. Just trying to fix my previous post that I kinda left wide open and not enough explaining. For that I apologize greatly for.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

You are entitled to your biased opinion, but you're spinning your wheels on here.

That is the definition of a pointed comment.

You have no basis to call me biased.

When I use that phrase regarding "lost pay and benefits", it's not meant to be taken literally.

Then why say it? At that point it sounds like propaganda/conditioning. Stick with facts not hyperbole.

If you care about your Wife's career, pay, & benefits, common sense would dictate, our push for AMFA should be something you should support.

Let me be very clear, I am not against AMFA, I just don' think it is going to be the magic fix many advertise it as.

I'm stuck in the suck of the Association muck, and I will do whatever it takes to rid our title group of this AMT hating Association. Don't hate on me for that.

I am not hating on anyone. Again I think many on here are building up AMFA to be the savior and will be heavily disappointed when they AMFA falls short of expectations.

I have also said many times in my opinion you would be much better off with something like AMP, a UNION of ONLY American Airlines employees.

If you really want AMFA I wish you luck Vortilon, I really mean that. I just hope it is everything you are building it up to be in your mind.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Informer, I apologize for my earlier post. I did leave out some info that some at AA are not aware of and sometimes forget they really don't know how AMFA is ran. I hope I have clarified with my latter postings.
As long as all the groups within the "And Related" remain in the "And Related" they will be represented by AMFA. So no one can go rogue and try to stab anyone in the back. The other unions will spread that misinformation as a tactic. And no one is down talking any of the other groups on here. It's as simple as the Pilots and F/A's did and the "Mechanic And Related" also want their own C&C union to represent their needs and issues. The separate contract language, rules and details are done so they can better represent each and every group within the "And Related" and it is better for all groups involved as they will have a say so for their language affecting them, each and every group will vote on their own issues and concerns. Each group will work from the language for their groups. Mechanics will vote on mechanic issues, title 1 will vote on their issues, facilities will vote on their issues, MC will vote on their issues and so on. It's stabbing anyone in the back. It's better representing each and all the groups within the "And Related" It's better for all involved. Let the TWU and IAM continue representing the groups that do not fall within the NMB's definition of "And Related". And they too are not getting stabbed in the back either, they will still be represented by their current TWU/IAM/Asso. just as they are now, nothing will change for them.
Our FM, instructors, and MC all did separate record drives for each group to get into AMFA. They all see the benefits of being represented by a C&C AMFA representation. All these groups have better benefited since coming onboard with AMFA, but they all have separate work rules, language issues and details all written specifically for their work groups as us mechanics have nothing to do with their work issues, it only affects them and we do say how they should work and they don't say how we should work.
Informer, I know you know all this. Just trying to fix my previous post that I kinda left wide open and not enough explaining. For that I apologize greatly for.

How long is it going to take before A&P licensed mechanics accuse the "and related" of riding their coattails?

 

[1986Mekanic]

You are entitled to your biased opinion, but you're spinning your wheels on here. I have no problem painting the picture to my fellow Mechanics and related when I speak of lost wages and benefits. It's about relating to them. Not contractually owed to us? Shortly after AA's last agreement with the flight attendants, Delta's F/As leap frogged AA's F/As in pay. Out of contract, Doug Parker gave AA's F/As another bump in pay because it "wasn't fair" our F/As fell behind. Obviously, we understand what is - as you put it "contractually owed to us". When I use that phrase regarding "lost pay and benefits", it's not meant to be taken literally. We also know double standards, and hypocrisy when we see it. Negotiating with the company to secure a better contract is hard enough as it is - even when it's only one title group.

If you care about your Wife's career, pay, & benefits, common sense would dictate, our push for AMFA should be something you should support. I'm stuck in the suck of the Association muck, and I will do whatever it takes to rid our title group of this AMT hating Association. Don't hate on me for that.

Why do you bother to engage him? His purpose here is to spin the conversation into whatever he deems is important to HIM,which is definitely not what WE see as important. Just ignore him and we can only hope he will go away.

 

[swamt]

We need to do like swamt says they do. Let title 2 have there on contract with there issues and let the amts have there on with our set of issues they vote on there’s we vote on ours.

How has this worked out for those groups. Right now AMT’s along with title 2 facilities have no representation at the table. With AMFA all groups will have a representative voice addressing their specific contract?

All the additional groups were extremely happy. All groups received much, much larger raises than in the past without AMFA representation. They all also got great work rules, better sick, vac, F/H and other perks with real rules that the co. has to follow instead of being all over the place. AND All their rules and language pertains to each groups issues, and their language has nothing to do with ours and vise versa.
Just recently all these groups that just came onboard with AMFA got their first contracts and only "THEY" voted on each of their contracts, none of us mechanics had any say so on their contracts. Which is the way it should be for all groups and the way it is with AMFA here. Keep up the good work fellas.

Guys ignore anyone that comes on here and tries to derail or get off topic. Start reporting the ones that do it. If they don't wanna discuss the drive information with AMFA then report them and all do it. But by all means don't let it distract you from the issue at hand. Keep these discussions alive and positive and answer their questions as this new drive will also bring out some new newbies. Welcome them and answer all their questions. Yes it will get redundant but most will come here for answers. We all know the info is out there, but don't discourage someone asking questions or searching for info by telling them to search it out themselves. Also try to give detailed backed up info, otherwise they will take the easy way out and just not do anything. Education is the best tool you guys got to get cards signed.

 

[swamt]

So much for discussions on the AMFA organizing drive.
We drifted away again as usual.

Looks like the thread is officially spun.. To bring it back on track'

I heard from an organizer that LUS stations are wanting a loads of cards. Thats good news.

Stay strong and stay focussed. Ignore them if they do not want to discuss the AMFA drive and issues. If they do then answer their questions. There will always be people on here trying to derail any possibility of an AMFA successful drive, you guys know this, it's happens every drive, don't let it deter you from participating.

 

[swamt]

How long is it going to take before A&P licensed mechanics accuse the "and related" of riding their coattails?

Never. The "and related" will not be riding anyones coattails. They will have their very own language and rules that reflects on their (each) group of the "And Related". And no mechanics or any other group within the "And Related" will ride any of the other groups coattails (your verbiage not mine) as long as you guys get all groups their own language and rules which is very easily done for you guys, as it was for us, when you all make a fresh start with AMFA, and all groups within the "And Related" get their first contract with their own rules, regs and language pertaining to their specific work groups.