AMFA Organizing Drive to Replace Association

[dfw gen]

And you wonder why most of title 2 will not sign a card. I have signed a card on every other AMFA drive in the last 30 yrs but I do not know if I should with this attitude from several of the people on this board.

I understand the concept of different books, it makes it more specific for each group.
Ultimately i am against just giving away facilities maintenance this time. Next time it will just be automotive or cleaners. Then it will be just the s.r.p's. No they cant have anyone else

 

[TWU informer]

And you wonder why most of title 2 will not sign a card. I have signed a card on every other AMFA drive in the last 30 yrs but I do not know if I should with this attitude from several of the people on this board.

Every AMFA Drive this happens.
I don’t have an A&P and the attitude and words of some damn sure cause me concern. I don’t have an answer for it. And damn sure can’t promise these people won’t stab the Related in the back! That’s a sad truth! I’ve bent over backwards to help them get a better union, and always someone throws their stupid golden wrench attitude in every thing.

 

[conehead777]

AFA President Sara Nelson is flying today and visiting rank and file F/A's.

Has anyone seen Sito or Alex Garcia come through their ready room yet?

No there to afraid to. Plus they do not listen to us members anyway

 

[conehead777]

This is a question for the folks in the Know please back up answer with facts..

If the card drive is successful and we have a vote;
Please explain how the voting goes?
ex: is it possible to loose union representation ?
ex: what does 51 % of the voting mean?
ex: if the vote is split say 30 % IAM 30 % TWU and 40% Amfa.
Does this mean no representation..
The organizers need to have this answered.
Over herd the twu lackies spewing the no-representation scenario.

https://content.next.westlaw.com/Do...&transitionType=Default&firstPage=true&bhcp=1

this will give you a idea. Then Goto the nmb site they have a lot of info

 

[conehead777]

Every AMFA Drive this happens.
I don’t have an A&P and the attitude and words of some damn sure cause me concern. I don’t have an answer for it. And damn sure can’t promise these people won’t stab the Related in the back! That’s a sad truth! I’ve bent over backwards to help them get a better union, and always someone throws their stupid golden wrench attitude in every thing.

We need to do like swamt says they do. Let title 2 have there on contract with there issues and let the amts have there on with our set of issues they vote on there’s we vote on ours.

 

[1AA]

What do you expect? A UNION by it's very nature is a socialist/leftist entity. If you don't like idea of socialist distribution of wealth then a UNION is probably not the best fit for you (where your pay is contractually mandated by seniority instead of work ethic, skill level, and efficiency). You really think AMFA will be any different? Perhaps it will for a time but the endgame is always the same.

If the contract is being followed you are not being shafted and you are not losing money. You can't lose what is not contractually yours despite how entitled you feel to receive it.

There is NO benefit to American Airlines. NONE.

Who cares if it is the last carrier? It is also one of the last carriers to maintain such a large maintenance presence in the United States. Should they follow the other airlines regarding maintenance? Obviously most members are not upset enough to demand a change in representation.

Your elitism is showing. Can you explain to be why you are not ground crew? You are certainly not air crew.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundcrew

Airline ground crew members include: airframe and powerplant, technicians, avionics technicians, ramp agents, customer service agents, and flight dispatchers. Ground crew members are responsible for clearing the runway and gate area of any debris or garbage, in order to prevent foreign object damage by an object being sucked into an engine. The crew visually inspects the tarmac and removes any items found; this is typically called a "FOD walk" and is done prior to an aircraft's arrival and departure.

Look you have your agenda/goals whatever you want to call it and that's great. I say good look to you. However when you start making posts that it insults and demeans you to be associated with "ground workers" frankly I find that conceited. I find it about as palatable as you would find a flight attendant dismissing you as a "dirty grease monkey" and projecting an attitude that you defile the air with your mere presence.

Oh, oh another topic drifting away.

And you wonder why most of title 2 will not sign a card. I have signed a card on every other AMFA drive in the last 30 yrs but I do not know if I should with this attitude from several of the people on this board.

Looking for an excuse not to sign?
You should stop and ask yourself what I can do to better my position at AA as a union member and then forward those ideas to your fellow union members. If you listen to half the idiots on these forums that have no idea or are trolls then you'll lose grasp of the actual agenda we are all trying to achieve. I'm not insulting or putting you down but trying to keep people focused on the main agenda so hopefully we can all reach our goal

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

La Li Lu Le Lo
I understand your fear and concern!

I have no fear regarding YOUR contract. I just don't like your attitude. I don't like your proclamation that you feel a "profound loss of Dignity and Respect" by simply being associated with "ground workers". I put up with enough of that crap at TULE.

I honestly don’t have the time to debate or argue with Fleet Service or Association sympathizers or those on Union payroll.

Great, I am none of those.

Because this card drive has so much enthusiasm that all of my efforts are going towards getting a NMB ballot to finally have a vote regarding my Union Representation.

Like I said I respect your goal and wish you luck.

After 36 years of paying dues, finally having a vote what those dues buy me matters.

As it should be. I felt the same way regarding the dues I paid and the taxes I pay.

I realize you and others like you are fine with dictatorship leaders and never having a voice. I prefer the Democratic way of doing things.

You can knock that BS off TWU informer. At this point your accusations are baseless. The whole reason I decided to leave American Airlines is because I was tired of the UNION BS. You decided to fight an uphill battle and I decided to go my own way. Who knows how your tactic will work out but mine worked out just fine.

Stop trying to be a spin doctor, you don't have the talent for it.

TWU, IAM, Association are all valid forms of Unionism.

I don't believe that. After all the membership has no real control over the UNION.

I prefer Democratic Craft Unionism over the “loaf of bread cost the same for everyone, brother” distribution of the available economic pie.

Like I said.... socialist distribution of wealth. I don't like that either. However that has always been and always will be the nature of a UNION. They have learned from their Democrat masters well.

Let’s get the cards and an election, then debates will be happening

They already happen..... every single day on this forum..... for all the good it does.

And you wonder why most of title 2 will not sign a card. I have signed a card on every other AMFA drive in the last 30 yrs but I do not know if I should with this attitude from several of the people on this board.

Indeed.

My post was never about some on here seeking unique representation for their "class and craft" but their total dismissive attitude toward the other work groups.

I mean, "AMT’s should see the benefit of not being at the negotiating table with Fleet Service and realize the profound loss of Dignity and Respect by being called “ground workers”. Doesn't that just speak volumes?

What an elitist prick.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Not sure why you're on an AMFA thread in the first place.

Because my wife is title I and I have a vested interest in the progress (or lack thereof) of the contract. You can hardly fault me for having an interest in a contract that could impact my finances and quality of life.

AMTs wanting to be in a union that is primarily made up of AMTs or other types of mechanical related positions isn't elitist. It doesn't benefit AMTs in the least, to be tossed in a one size fits all type group like we are now.

I agree wanting a UNION tailored to your skill set and sensitive to your unique needs is not elitist but, TWU informer's dismissive attitude certainly is. Don't try to justify his attitude.

In fact, the Fleet Service Clerks probably would have a contract now if they were not in the same union as AMTs. Having the Association attempt to reconcile 10 different title groups using two different unions who don't share the same philosophies is proving to be futile.

Sounds logical to me.

Losing money? Hell, we have lost money, and a lot of it. What the Association is holding out for - isn't going to happen, we all know it. Been there, done that. You see, retro pay has not even been brought up during negotiations. We haven't had a raise in over three years.

You are entitled to your opinion but what you are not entitled to is monies not contractually owed to you. That is a fact. You have lost nothing. Deal with it. Just because you feel you are owed does not make it so.

You can take your "contractually" assertion, and file that under hypocrisy.

Not hypocrisy, a result of fact, contract, and law.

Even a passive observer to this process can see the lack of fairness - since the merger being directed towards not just LAA AMTs, but all TWU represented when compared to our LUS counterparts - not their fault. A lot of that - is on Doug Parker lying to everyone. The bulk - can be on the Association reaching too far at our expense.

Yes I see things that are unfair, however there are many things in life that are unfair. That's life.

The future Title II headcount fight will be unsuccessful, as will the fight to retain the IAM healthcare. Therefore, it's not a reach to make that assertion about losing money.

It is absolutely a reach. You can't lose what you have no right to and your contract says you have no right. I am not saying that is fair only that it is the reality of the situation. Saying you have lost something you have no contractual right to is laughable and makes you look like a fool.

The membership has not been able to vote on anything since this abomination known as the association was formed.

Of course not.

That is by design.

See the "important" people had to protect their interest and you had to pay the price. Welcome to the world or privatized gains and socialized losses.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

and always someone throws their stupid golden wrench attitude in every thing.

Yeah, YOU.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Oh, oh another topic drifting away.

I really don't care. Like I said I had enough of that dismissive attitude when I worked at TULE.

Believe it or not I was there to do a job and pay bills, not plot against mechanics.

AA offered me a good paying job with good benefits in an area where those are hard to find, it was a good deal and I took it. I do what is best for ME and MY family and I really don't give a crap what other people feel entitled to. Maybe if you as a group did a little more of that instead of trying to save headcount you would not find yourself in your current situation.

 

[iluvaa]

This is a question for the folks in the Know please back up answer with facts..

If the card drive is successful and we have a vote;
Please explain how the voting goes?
ex: is it possible to loose union representation ?
ex: what does 51 % of the voting mean?
ex: if the vote is split say 30 % IAM 30 % TWU and 40% Amfa.
Does this mean no representation..
The organizers need to have this answered.
Over herd the twu lackies spewing the no-representation scenario.

It will only be a vote against the ASS and AMFA

 

[scorpion 2]

Hey Man, that's one thing I got no problem with. I am more than willing to supply some support for my fellow mechs at AA to get on board with AMFA.

We do appreciate the support and hopefully that will help with those that would rather mail them than turn them into an organizer.

 

[scorpion 2]

I will say once we went AMFA, we told AMFA that the cleaners (and related) would half to be out of our contract and on their very own contract as well as any other "and related" group. It has worked very well and much, much better that way for the mechanics. I would suggest you guys do the same.

How has this worked out for those groups. Right now AMT’s along with title 2 facilities have no representation at the table. With AMFA all groups will have a representative voice addressing their specific contract?

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Do you really think there is a shortage of AMT's? I just don't buy it.

well, there are about 460 more AMTs than there were in jan of this year. aa needed these additional 460 much earlier.

right now, besides the 38 FT line AMTs needed in lga and 33 line AMTs needed in dfw, the company needs these AMT and related in TULE:

42 avionics
5 machinist
29 overhaul
1 plater
14 overhaul shop mechanics
7 stores
1 plant maintenance

they also need some 16 c/c with that.

i'd call that a shortage that the company has been swimming upstream to address all year.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

If I was a Fleet Service Clerk (and I was for 12 years) doing a job that required no special skill and no education that paid me a good wage and had full benefits I would not be rocking the boat with demands. Truth is Fleet Service Clerks are highly replaceable and many would do the job for far less money. Don't believe it? Feel free to go to any gate using contracted labor and see for yourself.

it depends what type of airline/company and level of service the company wants to promote.

i work in a hub and see the 'quality' of work done by contract ground handlers and despite the infinite greed of corporate america, they are intelligent enough to know that they need to pay to compete with delta and united. delta has proved this over time; rewarding non-union employees while aa did the same with passenger service, who were always on par/greater compensation with/than fleet, despite being non-union until the merger was finalized.

as far as compensation demands, the airlines' #2 expense, jet fuel, has been shattered by the shale/fracker revolution. the company has decided that this windfall will be shared with the shareholders. delta decided that it will be shared between employees and shareholders.

this is not 1898 working for the robber-barons. we can ask and expect more..no shame involved.