AMFA Organizing Drive to Replace Association

[TWU informer]

Q & A


1. Why AMFA?
• We believe that AMFA is the only union that can draw enough support among the former LUS and LAA groups to unseat the Association. This is based on the facts that the TWU and IAM will not run against each other due to the Jim Little agreement and the actions of the Teamsters withdrawing their filing at LAA without so much as an explanation.

2. Why now?
• The TWU and IAM are always accusing AMFA of showing up at the wrong time and or interfering with negotiations. Since the single carrier filing in 2015,we have waited to see if the Association could successfully negotiate a new contract. Now more than 4 years later we believe that we can wait no longer. The time has come to remove the Association, not just because of their failure to bring back a contract in a timely manner but also, we believe two separate unions with different belief structures and priorities is unworkable long term. We must come together under one leadership and more forward as a single group.

3. What about seniority integration?
• Seniority integration has been ruled upon by the arbitrator, in our opinion there is no going back. One only needs to look at what happened once USAPA replaced ALPA at US Airways and attempted to overturn ALPA arbitrated decision on seniority integration. What followed was years of ligation and the inability to ever reach a collective bargaining agreement. If we are successful in replacing the Association, the arbitrator’s decision will stand, we must move forward not backwards.

4. Who will lead?
• Once the filing occurs, we will go to our supporters and elect local leaders at each station, these will be temporary until a full election can be run. It should take just a few months to setup full elections at each station. AMFA National will represent the group to the company until we can get duly elected representatives.
• If a contract has not been reached, our members can elect a group of negotiators to unite with AMFA National and their legal team to continue bargaining, this can be done even before full elections occur.


5. What about negotiations?
• Once winning the election, our goal is to engage the company from where we are at that moment. If we are picking up in the middle of negotiations and something has been tentatively agreed upon, we should review and remain with those decisions and work to bring the open items to a successful conclusion. Starting over is not the way to go. As with the seniority integration, we will attempt to move the group forward not rewrite the past.

6. How long will this take?
• Under the best-case scenario, we believe that it will take 6-8 months, to get the cards, file for an election, get a vote and win. For those who say “Give the Association a little longer” they still have 6-8 months. What you should ask yourself is “If we get to next summer and we still do not have a contract, would you then believe that we need a new union ”, if the answer is YES, then sign a card and let’s get started.

7. Who is eligible to sign?
• The easiest way to answer this is the government’s decision on the mechanics craft and class, the following link has the NMB determination document regarding Craft or Class issues from the merger.

http://amfa-aa.com/pdf/42_NMB_No15_FUI.pdf

9. Who leads AMFA today?
• National Director of AMFA: Bret Oestreich. Brett was an American Airlines mechanic in Tulsa, OK from 1996-2012 before leaving to go to Southwest Airlines.
• Assistance National Director of AMFA: Jean Painter.

10. Who started this drive?
• This drive was started by a group of employees around the system from both LUS and LAA. We believe that the Association is not viable long term, whether they can reach a contract or not. We seek to unify our two groups together under one leadership, so we can move forward together not separate as the TWU/IAM Association.

Printable PDF linked below

 

[Phoenix757767]

All maintenance Planners
All maintenance Auditors
All maintenance Trainers

Are in Mechanic and Related craft or class
And yes we need their signed cards also

Maintenance Trainers are their own class and craft.

 

[1AA]

Maintenance Trainers are their own class and craft.

Gee, I didn't know that. Your a real smart guy. Thanks but we can figure things out for ourselves from here on out. Don't let the jetbridge door hit you on the back side. LOL.

 

[V.O. Reason]

Q & A


1. Why AMFA?
• We believe that AMFA is the only union that can draw enough support among the former LUS and LAA groups to unseat the Association. This is based on the facts that the TWU and IAM will not run against each other due to the Jim Little agreement and the actions of the Teamsters withdrawing their filing at LAA without so much as an explanation.

2. Why now?
• The TWU and IAM are always accusing AMFA of showing up at the wrong time and or interfering with negotiations. Since the single carrier filing in 2015,we have waited to see if the Association could successfully negotiate a new contract. Now more than 4 years later we believe that we can wait no longer. The time has come to remove the Association, not just because of their failure to bring back a contract in a timely manner but also, we believe two separate unions with different belief structures and priorities is unworkable long term. We must come together under one leadership and more forward as a single group.

3. What about seniority integration?
• Seniority integration has been ruled upon by the arbitrator, in our opinion there is no going back. One only needs to look at what happened once USAPA replaced ALPA at US Airways and attempted to overturn ALPA arbitrated decision on seniority integration. What followed was years of ligation and the inability to ever reach a collective bargaining agreement. If we are successful in replacing the Association, the arbitrator’s decision will stand, we must move forward not backwards.

4. Who will lead?
• Once the filing occurs, we will go to our supporters and elect local leaders at each station, these will be temporary until a full election can be run. It should take just a few months to setup full elections at each station. AMFA National will represent the group to the company until we can get duly elected representatives.
• If a contract has not been reached, our members can elect a group of negotiators to unite with AMFA National and their legal team to continue bargaining, this can be done even before full elections occur.


5. What about negotiations?
• Once winning the election, our goal is to engage the company from where we are at that moment. If we are picking up in the middle of negotiations and something has been tentatively agreed upon, we should review and remain with those decisions and work to bring the open items to a successful conclusion. Starting over is not the way to go. As with the seniority integration, we will attempt to move the group forward not rewrite the past.

6. How long will this take?
• Under the best-case scenario, we believe that it will take 6-8 months, to get the cards, file for an election, get a vote and win. For those who say “Give the Association a little longer” they still have 6-8 months. What you should ask yourself is “If we get to next summer and we still do not have a contract, would you then believe that we need a new union ”, if the answer is YES, then sign a card and let’s get started.

7. Who is eligible to sign?
• The easiest way to answer this is the government’s decision on the mechanics craft and class, the following link has the NMB determination document regarding Craft or Class issues from the merger.

http://amfa-aa.com/pdf/42_NMB_No15_FUI.pdf

9. Who leads AMFA today?
• National Director of AMFA: Bret Oestreich. Brett was an American Airlines mechanic in Tulsa, OK from 1996-2012 before leaving to go to Southwest Airlines.
• Assistance National Director of AMFA: Jean Painter.

10. Who started this drive?
• This drive was started by a group of employees around the system from both LUS and LAA. We believe that the Association is not viable long term, whether they can reach a contract or not. We seek to unify our two groups together under one leadership, so we can move forward together not separate as the TWU/IAM Association.

So are you saying Fleet is not involved in this drive?
If not then where does that leave them?

 

[1AA]

So are you saying Fleet is not involved in this drive?
If not then where does that leave them?

Status quo. Unless they do a card drive with another union. The association consists of multiple title groups. The AA dispatchers were in the association until they had a card drive and they voted themselves out of the dysfunctional association. We can do the same Fleet can do the same. Hope that helps.

 

[dfw gen]

So are you saying Fleet is not involved in this drive?
If not then where does that leave them?

fleet is not involved. as 1AA says it leaves them status quo. in the association.

 

[TWU informer]

Maintenance Trainers are their own class and craft.

Phoenix757767,
Please educate yourself to the NMB Changes before making postings here!


Technical Crew Chiefs/Maintenance Training Specialists


At US Airways, the Maintenance Training Specialist position provides maintenance training and instruction to Mechanics and Related Employees involved in the inspection, maintenance, and overhaul of aircraft and components. Maintenance Training Specialists at US Airways are separately represented by the IAM pursuant to a certification issued in NMB Case No. R-6677. US Airways, 26 NMB 341 (1999). Following the merger of US Airways and America West, the IAM requested and the Board granted the extension of the IAM’s certification to cover the unrepresented Maintenance Training Specialists at America West. US Airways/America West, 33 NMB 174 (2006). Although the Maintenance Training Specialists have been certified as a separate craft or class at US Airways, the IAM has historically bargained for these employees in conjunction with the Mechanics and Related Employees craft or class.


At American, Technical Crew Chiefs perform the equivalent work as the US Airways Maintenance Training Specialists. The Technical Crew Chiefs at American perform both on-the-job and classroom instruction related to aircrafts systems. The Technical Crew Chiefs are currently represented in the Mechanics and Related Employees craft or class at American.

In several cases, the Board has certified separate crafts or classes of employees performing maintenance instruction. In the pre- and post-merger US Airways cases mentioned above, and in United Airlines, 26 NMB 169 (1999), the Board did so with no discussion of work-related community of interest or other craft or class issues. It can be inferred that such issues were not raised by the participants. In Eastern Airlines, 5 NMB 94 (1976), the carrier argued that the appropriate craft or class should cover all instructors including ground school as well as maintenance and ramp instructors. In rejecting the carrier’s argument, the Board acknowledged that the collective bargaining process is "hindered rather than aided by the existence of a multitude of bargaining units." Id. at 102. The Board concluded, however, that separate representation was appropriate given the record evidence that the carrier "had fragmented

portions of its training program to such an extent that each group is autonomous." Id. In more recent cases, the Board has found that employees performing maintenance instruction are properly included in the Mechanics and Related Employees craft or class because of their direct contact with mechanics and a strong tie to the maintenance function. See Southwest Airlines, 39 NMB 246 (2011); Spirit Airlines, 33 NMB 363 (2006).

In the instant case, the Maintenance Training Specialists/Technical Crew Chiefs possess the same basic qualifications and perform the same duties as those in Southwest and Spirit Airlines. They teach courses to Mechanics and Related Employees in the classroom and in the shop. They must possess A&P licenses. In addition, they provide technical assistance and guidance in trouble shooting and repair of the aircraft and components used by Company. Accordingly, the Board finds that the Maintenance Training Specialists and Technical Crew Chiefs share a work related community of interest with and are properly included in the Mechanics and Related Employees craft or class.

Reference:


42 NMB No. 15 PAGE 57 & 58
http://www.amfa-aa.com/pdf/42_NMB_No15_FUI.pdf

Phoenix757767 you might want to read through this NMB PDF file and get educated about the changes that occurred with the LAA/LUS merger!

 

[TWU informer]

So are you saying Fleet is not involved in this drive?
If not then where does that leave them?

Fleet Service will either remain in the pathetic Association, or sign cards for another Union
They are not allowed in AMFA per the AMFA Constitution

 

[1AA]

Phoenix757767,
Please educate yourself to the NMB Changes before making postings here!


Technical Crew Chiefs/Maintenance Training Specialists


At US Airways, the Maintenance Training Specialist position provides maintenance training and instruction to Mechanics and Related Employees involved in the inspection, maintenance, and overhaul of aircraft and components. Maintenance Training Specialists at US Airways are separately represented by the IAM pursuant to a certification issued in NMB Case No. R-6677. US Airways, 26 NMB 341 (1999). Following the merger of US Airways and America West, the IAM requested and the Board granted the extension of the IAM’s certification to cover the unrepresented Maintenance Training Specialists at America West. US Airways/America West, 33 NMB 174 (2006). Although the Maintenance Training Specialists have been certified as a separate craft or class at US Airways, the IAM has historically bargained for these employees in conjunction with the Mechanics and Related Employees craft or class.


At American, Technical Crew Chiefs perform the equivalent work as the US Airways Maintenance Training Specialists. The Technical Crew Chiefs at American perform both on-the-job and classroom instruction related to aircrafts systems. The Technical Crew Chiefs are currently represented in the Mechanics and Related Employees craft or class at American.

In several cases, the Board has certified separate crafts or classes of employees performing maintenance instruction. In the pre- and post-merger US Airways cases mentioned above, and in United Airlines, 26 NMB 169 (1999), the Board did so with no discussion of work-related community of interest or other craft or class issues. It can be inferred that such issues were not raised by the participants. In Eastern Airlines, 5 NMB 94 (1976), the carrier argued that the appropriate craft or class should cover all instructors including ground school as well as maintenance and ramp instructors. In rejecting the carrier’s argument, the Board acknowledged that the collective bargaining process is "hindered rather than aided by the existence of a multitude of bargaining units." Id. at 102. The Board concluded, however, that separate representation was appropriate given the record evidence that the carrier "had fragmented

portions of its training program to such an extent that each group is autonomous." Id. In more recent cases, the Board has found that employees performing maintenance instruction are properly included in the Mechanics and Related Employees craft or class because of their direct contact with mechanics and a strong tie to the maintenance function. See Southwest Airlines, 39 NMB 246 (2011); Spirit Airlines, 33 NMB 363 (2006).

In the instant case, the Maintenance Training Specialists/Technical Crew Chiefs possess the same basic qualifications and perform the same duties as those in Southwest and Spirit Airlines. They teach courses to Mechanics and Related Employees in the classroom and in the shop. They must possess A&P licenses. In addition, they provide technical assistance and guidance in trouble shooting and repair of the aircraft and components used by Company. Accordingly, the Board finds that the Maintenance Training Specialists and Technical Crew Chiefs share a work related community of interest with and are properly included in the Mechanics and Related Employees craft or class.

Reference:


42 NMB No. 15 PAGE 57 & 58
http://www.amfa-aa.com/pdf/42_NMB_No15_FUI.pdf

Phoenix757767 you might want to read through this NMB PDF file and get educated about the changes that occurred with the LAA/LUS merger!

SLAM DUNK IN YOUR FACE REPLY!!


Thank you Dave for that reply. I'm sure there will be a spin starting with But........

And in the meantime cards are being signed as we speak.

 

[TWU informer]

How does one persuade another to understand and agree with the need for change?

INSULTS WILL NOT WORK!
Insults only makes the other person more dogmatic and dug into their position.

Think about that and a successful method....and I realize after years of debating this is difficult.

#1. The other person must understand that you care about them and their future, and their best interest is your only agenda.
#2. You must be able to communicate effectively what you believe and why you believe it.
#3 Patience and Understanding and answering questions with factual information is best practice.
#4 If they disagree, let them explain their position without insulting them if they are uneducated.
#5 Once you listen to their position obtain factual documentation to show why you disagree.

Take notes if they are opposed and get back to them with goodwill and facts!

Good Luck!

 

[conehead777]

If at first you don't succeed try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try try FAIL again.
BTW...someone get Conehead a thesaurus. He must have skipped basic english in kindergarten.

So prove me wrong . You can’t so you make fun of my grammar who gives a **** about my grammar at least I know what union would be right for amt and related

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

This thread improved 1000% with a simple “ignore” of a certain individual who claims to have a spouse in T1.

Not a claim, a FACT.

Have said spouse post their concerns in person and hopefully with some semblance of common sense, because brah, you lost anyone you were trying to reach as you made zero sense.

I made perfect sense you just did not like my message. You are not putting me on ignore to improve the thread, you are putting me on ignore because you don't like someone telling you something you don't want to hear.

Like a true fool you choose ignorant bliss over reality.

From what I have observed having an A&P give some mechanics, not all, a sense of entitlement (observations made over 12 years at TULE). Today it is Fleet Service riding the licensed mechanics coattails because TWU is playing a numbers game to maximize dues, tomorrow it will be licensed mechanics claiming unlicensed mechanics are riding their coattails because AMFA is playing a numbers game to maximize dues.

On and on and on it goes.

I understand you want representation that is well.... more representative of your class and craft. I get that. I even support it. It's all the other BS I don't care for.

Your constant claims of Fleet Service riding your coattails, the constant whining that FedEx (which is a totally different business) and Southwest Airlines (which has a totally different cost structure) mechanics have better this and better that........

You know why you don't go work for Fedex or Southwest? Because UNION seniority has you by the nuts. Why negotiate with a bunch of people you know are going NOWHERE?

You think AMFA is going to be your savior but at the end of the day you are still going to be the same group of miserable, whiny, jealous people looking to blame someone else because you are not getting what you feel entitled to and you are unwilling to chase the better deal because you are a slave to UNION seniority.

The pity party is getting old.

 

[AAMeck96]

The drive is going strong! I just joined the company about 4 months ago and though I have not lost anything, I can see the lack of growth with the TWU. In JFK the cards are moving strong. Not only senior guys signing, but also many of the new hires like me who are planning for their future.

 

[dfw gen]

The drive is going strong! I just joined the company about 4 months ago and though I have not lost anything, I can see the lack of growth with the TWU. In JFK the cards are moving strong. Not only senior guys signing, but also many of the new hires like me who are planning for their future.

Very good! We need everyone on board!

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

The drive is going strong! I just joined the company about 4 months ago and though I have not lost anything, I can see the lack of growth with the TWU. In JFK the cards are moving strong. Not only senior guys signing, but also many of the new hires like me who are planning for their future.

Good post. Stay positive and focused.