Amfa Informational Meeting

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

Well CIO, since you were caught at the meeting writing down falsehoods to spread about the situation at UAL on your notepad. I think most people will from now on take your posts with a "grain of salt". I can see the "TEAM TWU" propaganda now .

When is the TWU gonna buy KIRK WELLS a "black helicopter"? That green Ford Mustang he was driving around Local 12 stuck out like a "sore thumb" at the meeting today.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Amfa meeting was a joke!

Amfa national representative Doug Butts admitted amfa is nothing more than a bunch of losers! This came from his own mouth!

Twist away and try to deny this!!!!!!!

[post="265749"][/post]​

Yeah and his exact words were both the NWA and UAL guys at the podium were losers at one time because they lost many elections before they won one. The rest of his statement was, losing makes you stronger and more determined to win.

That's the best you got burn boy, you're in trouble.

 

[AMFAMAN]

When is the TWU gonna buy KIRK WELLS a "black helicopter"? That green Ford Mustang he was driving around Local 12 stuck out like a "sore thumb" at the meeting today.

[post="265768"][/post]​

That 6 cylinder Mustang with the safety wired up fake 2nd exhaust pipe to make it look like an 8 cylinder GT was a real stealth mobile. I like how he was taking pictures of all those who entered and exited the building. I am sure that would fall under a rule 32 violation.

BTW...How can Kirky afford the gas needed for his 2 days of driving around the building? Who paid this guy for driving around the building on Friday, probally AA?

 

[Hackman]

Amfa meeting was a joke!

Amfa national representative Doug Butts admitted amfa is nothing more than a bunch of losers! This came from his own mouth!

Twist away and try to deny this!!!!!!!

[post="265749"][/post]​

Yeah right!!! You and your mouth didn't even have the balls to spew your lies to the people you lie the most about. Why? Scared of the truth or maybe laughed out of the room? After you got fronted off more than once, you cowards couldn't even muster the courage of ONE question or twu lie!!!! NOTHING!!!! Mullings had his head in his hands half the time, looked like he was going to cry.

Maybe kirky the twu felon could have shown how knowledgable he is by coming in and speaking for you??? His is an unelected organizer for the twu International is he not? That's a good one...talk about a funny joke. He was too busy wasting gas driving around in his junker Mustang and too cowardly to try a grand entrance.

You four sat there like the blind lemmings that you are. If you dipsheets are the best the twu has in Tulsa, its no wonder the company has you stepping and fetching for them like good twu company union boys.



Your brain is as fried as your neck..... :blink: :blink: :blink: :blink:

 

[Hackman]

Well CIO, since you were caught at the meeting writing down falsehoods to spread about the situation at UAL on your notepad I think most people will from now on take your posts with a "grain of salt". I can see the "TEAM TWU" propaganda now .

When is the TWU gonna buy KIRK WELLS a "black helicopter"? That green Ford Mustang he was driving around Local 12 stuck out like a "sore thumb" at the meeting today.

[post="265768"][/post]​

I don't think we ever took his posts for anything but for the lies and delusions that they are.

Mary Tennames has to tie his shoes in the morning, and give him the two peas for his sack back to him that he uses attempting to get off his knees and be a man. He's still trying that one...... :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:

 

[Decision 2004]

Well now that I have had time to think about it.

I AM A LOSER ALSO.

I LOST

17.5% in Pay
5 Vacation Days
5 Paid Holidays
Increased Out-of-Pocket Medical
Double Time Overtime Pay
Holiday Worked Pay

That combined with the 1995 6 year 6.5% pay increase contract, along with the other 20 years of TWU Concessions.

YEP, I am a loser alright.

Maybe ALL AMFA Supporters are LOSERS, and that is why they want to rid themselves of Industrial Unionism.

Hmmmm, and I thought CIO was telling another TWU LIE!
I just didn't understand his message. But now I get it.

 

[Bob Owens]

DECISION 2007,Apr 29 2005, 07:35 PM]
Well Bob, I guess that shoots the hell out of the earlier statements of Jim Little passing it through regardless of vote outcome, thanks for clearing the issue.

No not really. If you recall Little promised a revote but then decided to put it in place. The members were not given choice.



Fact is Bob, I wish I could do your status harm as you have ours at MCIE. Many here do not take the loss of seniority lightly, thanks for all you did in support of our strife.


So in addition to the $10/hr increase we got for you, you feel that you should bump all the guys who pushed for that down in seniority? You apparantly feel that you should be rewarded for making Ichann rich by selling out the profession?

No Bob, the best way to sum it up is that I have a difference of opinion with the TWU locally here at MCIE. You would "tell me so", whether you were right or wrong on any given issue, it's your nature Bob. The fact that I have a difference of opinion still does not warrant me running to Delle's bosom for comfort as you do. I admit I do not share in the TWU's style of operation with the company. That is simply my opinion, nothing more. My vote counts as one.



So the line is responsible for all revenue generated now? Hmmmmm...the line then is also responsible for the loss of revenue, correct?

Wrong, the line does not determine at what price the company sells their tickets. And you forget that both the company and the union say that the reason why we had to take the pay cuts was to save overhaul. Now I dont believe it but thats what they claim.

The line controls the flow of money withing AA, interesting concept of yours Bob.

Well we certainly have more direct input than you do. A job action on the line will have immediate effects on the operation. If all you guys walked out tomorrow it would be weeks, if at all, before there was any affect on operations.

Your desire to split the line from major O/H brings to mind the same concept of OSMs and mechanics.


Its not my desire to split the two, but the fact is we live under very different circumstances and the indifference shown by people like you doesnt provide any incentive for Solidarity. I blame a lot of this on the failure of the leadership of the TWU to make a point of ensuring that those in OH have the information so that they can react reasonably. Should Line guys get paid more? Well the real question is shouldnt the line guys enjoy a reasonable lifestyle? In some areas that means more money than others. Thats not the same concept as OSMs where two people in the same classification earn different pay rates for doing the same job in the same locality.

I have no problem with Overhaul making exactly the same as us as long as they set the rates at whats reasonable for us to survive. If they can live like kings, thats fine by me, but I resent being forced to work for an insufficient rate because people who live in cheap areas of the country feel that figure is enough for where they are while at the same time demanding that those in high cost areas accept the same rate. If they are willing to work for less, due to lower local costs then they should take into account that those of us who work in the high cost areas, where the funds used to pay them are generated, may not be able to get by due to higher costs. There is nothing unreasonable or anti-union about regional adjustments to payrates. In fact most unions outside of aviation have such provisions.

Yet you throw that in the face of the TWU constantly, regardless of the fact you and yours voted that in prior to the purchase of TWA, (damn, can't blame MCIE).

Check your facts there. The line stations have historically voted no, in NY they have done so by a wide margin, and the contract that that created SRPS, was rejected by the line.

You desire to set 2 pay scales within the mechanic ranks, sound familiar?

Where did you see that? What I desire is a fair wage for what I do where I live.That figure is $40/hr. Now if you want that too, fine, but its wrong for you to say that I should do with much less because you dont need that kind of money.

I'll miss your script when I leave this profession, but here's a word of advice Bob. Keep your posts within the union forums, seems you take a real butt kicking when you type outside of your little local following. The finance/company peeps own you on these boards.

Well I'll admit they can throw around a lot a fancy terms, and for folks like you who are impressed by such things, you probably assume that because you have no idea of what they just said that they must be right it, might appear that way, but I dissagree.

Now, have a nice day, and take time to think of who will be your next target to lay blame to once TWAers are long gone.

Oh the poor poor victim again. You sound like Richard Nixon.

And hopefully your AMFA supporters that work major O/H won't catch on to your self-serving proclamations.

Such as?

 

[seed]

Allow me to jump in here if I might.

Its not my desire to split the two, but the fact is we live under very different circumstances and the indifference shown by people like you doesnt provide any incentive for Solidarity.

Great job of talking out of both sides of your mouth. You state it's not your desire to split, yet you openly cry for better pay for the line, that's not spilitting? You stated you desire $40/hr., why not desire $50? Or $60? AA could spin off all major O/H and then pay Bob Owens what he assumes he is worth. Great concept Bob. You want the line guys to enjoy a reasonable lifestyle? Not sure how it is in NY Bob, but in the midwest if we need more $$$ to enjoy, we go out and earn it, it's really a simple concept Bob. If the employer is not satisfying your required monetary compensation, you find a different employer or you acquire another job to supplement, simple math Bob.

And let's discuss the $10/hr. raise we received Bob. You want me to believe that due to an increase in pay I should forfeit my seniority? How about this Bob, how about I give you my $10/hr raise and you give me back my 27 years of seniority?

What I desire is a fair wage for what I do where I live.

Oh the poor poor victim again. You sound like Richard Nixon.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

If you TWA people felt so strongly about keeping your seniority,TWA-IAM members should have told the IAM to refuse to agree to give up your ALLEGHENY-MOHAWK protections before AA bought TWA. You TWA people need to SHUT UP about your seniority. The TWA-IAM M+R,RAMP were the only workgroups to be integrated exactly as ALLEGHENY-MOHAWK calls out. The arbitrator ruled so live with it. If the TWA people had asked for ratio dovetail(which I supported)instead of a demanding a full dovetail(as they did)going to an arbitrator would not have been needed. Your company(TWA) was dead and probably would not even been around for the 9-11 attacks much less after. TWA is starting to be good example of biting the hand that feeds you. Ok,you can now call me all the names you want!

I think all that BOB wants for the line is a COLA were people in places like JFK,SFO,etc. can have the same standard of living as those in TUL. Since, the TWU saved all our jobs,now we have to have two jobs to make ends meet.

 

[Bob Owens]

Allow me to jump in here if I might.
Great job of talking out of both sides of your mouth. You state it's not your desire to split, yet you openly cry for better pay for the line, that's not spilitting?

No.

Like I said I have no problem with you guys making the $40/hr that we need here. I believe that we have the leverage to get that. I think we have enough to demand it for all of us, that includes you. I think its wrong for you guys to dictate to us that we need to work for much less because you are afraid to fight for more. If you guys are willing to accept less then you should allow for a pay differential that makes up, at least in part, for the cost differential.

The fact is that you benifit from your affiliation with the line, which I have no problem with, the problem lies with the fact that we not only recieve no benifit from our affiliation with you but in fact are hurt by it, and the reason why we are hurt by it is your complete disregard for our living conditions. I base this on the fact that you make nearly $10 more than the going rate for overhaul should AA contract it out, so your affiliation with us gets you a $10/hr premium for your labor. But we make $10 less than the top rates for line maintenance and the reason given by both the union and the company is that we have overhaul. If you guys are not willing to give any consideration for us then what justifies your claim that we should remain united if doing so destroys our economic futures but produces an economic windfall for you?

You stated you desire $40/hr., why not desire $50? Or $60?


Because $40 is the going rate for similarly skilled people around here.

AA could spin off all major O/H and then pay Bob Owens what he assumes he is worth.

Or they could keep it and give regional pay like the government and many other employers. The fact remains that while we make $10/hr less in order to save your job that you demand you make the same wage in a low cost area where the jobs are at risk as those in a high cost area where they are not at risk. The fact is you are the majority and you guys can collectivly reject any concessionary contract, but historically only AFW has chosen to do so.

Great concept Bob. You want the line guys to enjoy a reasonable lifestyle? Not sure how it is in NY Bob, but in the midwest if we need more $$$ to enjoy, we go out and earn it, it's really a simple concept Bob. If the employer is not satisfying your required monetary compensation, you find a different employer or you acquire another job to supplement, simple math Bob.


Well its not that simple, you are saying that I should just walk away from a 25 year investment because you are narcissistic,chickenshit and greedy. You want to get a wage that you are not really willing to fight for, that is only available because of the affiliation you have with guys in high cost areas, and then tell the same people who provide you with the $10/hr premium that if they dont like making the sacrifice of $10 hr so you can make an additional $10hr that we should quit. Well sorry, I dont feel that way.

And let's discuss the $10/hr. raise we received Bob. You want me to believe that due to an increase in pay I should forfeit my seniority?

You had seniority with TWA. You now work for AA.

Most of the other workers who came to AA from other carriers recieved zero seniority. You even did better than the AMR Eagle employees who spent many years working for the same company in the same union. Your options were to lose all your seniority, sick time, pension, vacation accrual and start at the bottom, probably working for a third party provider at $17 to $20 and hour or keep your company time, some of your occ time(all of it in MCI),get credit for all years served at AA towards your pension(we lose the first year, you didnt), all your sick time, all your vacation time plus a $10hr increase in pay. I'd say that considering those two scenarios those of you that remained employed did very well.

How about this Bob, how about I give you my $10/hr raise and you give me back my 27 years of seniority?

Fine. But the fact is that as long as you stay in MCI you already have it.

 

[DECISION 2007]

Like I said I have no problem with you guys making the $40/hr that we need here. I believe that we have the leverage to get that.

You believe we have the leverage? Let's see, AA is the last remaining large airline to do major overhaul, and yet we have leverage as they ,AA, pay more for labor? Explain your leverage angle Bob.

Well its not that simple, you are saying that I should just walk away from a 25 year investment because you are narcissistic,chickenshit and greedy.

25 whole years Bob? That would pretty much get you furloughed here. No Bob, go take on another job if you need more $$$

And Bob, most at TWA believe we would have been better off being unemployed, had TWA gone out and AA never existed. AA did not save us, your workforce, the TWU,the IAM did nothing for us. That part is old news, but still in our craugh.

Fine. But the fact is that as long as you stay in MCI you already have it.

Really Bob? You mean the 300 or so out of 1900 that will be left? Nice guy, nice thought.

 

[Bob Owens]

DECISION 2007,May 2 2005, 07:34 PM]
You believe we have the leverage? Let's see, AA is the last remaining large airline to do major overhaul, and yet we have leverage as they ,AA, pay more for labor? Explain your leverage angle Bob.

Well if we acted like a union then despite the fact that we have OH we could still get good wages. A strike would still shut the company down, thats the leverage you have when you are in a union.

25 whole years Bob? That would pretty much get you furloughed here.

25 in the industry, less than that at AA and I did not get any credit for the years at other places like you did. Besides you guys voted for the contract that let them get rid of you.

No Bob, go take on another job if you need more $$$

And Bob, most at TWA believe we would have been better off being unemployed, had TWA gone out and AA never existed.

Most at TWA or most at MCI? If thats the way you feel then why are you complaining, you may get your wish exept instead of getting laid off from a $20/hr job you got to make $30 an hour.

AA did not save us, your workforce, the TWU,the IAM did nothing for us. That part is old news, but still in our craugh.

Well I guess that after years of expecting everyone elses interests to be put aside for yours it all comes as quite a shock when you end up getting screwed. Maybe now you know how your fellow TWA workers from the line stations felt. MCI may have been top dog at TWA but now that your with AA and Tulsa has 6K members you are getting treated the way you treated the line guys, and you dont like it.

Really Bob? You mean the 300 or so out of 1900 that will be left? Nice guy, nice thought.

Well you can always bump into New York. Thats the way this industry works. You knew that when you started. We have seen a lot of our coworkers hit the streets too. Some even quit because of what you helped put in place.

 

[DECISION 2007]

Just how many mechanics are at your station Bob? Do you know?

 

[James T. Kirk]

DELETED BY MOD

 

[Bob Owens]

Just how many mechanics are at your station Bob?  Do you know?

[post="266191"][/post]​

Title I, II or both?

I think for Title I there are 365 working, plus around 130 on layoff.

I think Title II is around 200. Dont have exact numbers though.