AMFA - IAM - TWU for aircraft maintenance ?

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Since there is a possibility of a merger with AA & USAir which union would the mechanics at US Air like to see in place going forward?

We here at AA are attempting to get AMFA in, removing the Industrial unions from our class and craft.

So if any mechanics, from a/c maintenance/facilities/gse can voice their opinion here it would be nice to know?

 

[Desert Snake]

We currently have a Teamsters drive underway.

 

[737823]

Since there is a possibility of a merger with AA & USAir which union would the mechanics at US Air like to see in place going forward?

We here at AA are attempting to get AMFA in, removing the Industrial unions from our class and craft.

So if any mechanics, from a/c maintenance/facilities/gse can voice their opinion here it would be nice to know?

Go read the AA forum, no one is happy with the TWU besides Overspeed. IAM has no experience bargaining with AA management and doesn't have the greatest record and perception among AA employees with regards to concessions and the TWA acquisitions. AMFA will probably prevail.

Josh

 

[700UW]

First of all the election would be between the TWU and the IAM if enough cards get signed, AMFA would need 50%+1 cards to be on the ballot.

The only misconception is with you joshie, AA folks know what happened at US and at TWA.

 

[737823]

First of all the election would be between the TWU and the IAM if enough cards get signed, AMFA would need 50%+1 cards to be on the ballot.

The only misconception is with you joshie, AA folks know what happened at US and at TWA.

Stupid poll, because it will be neither the worthless Twu, nor the equally worthless Iam SCAB union. Go back to the US Air board and worry about your stock clerk issues, since you have no say in my craft and class. It's AMFA...... or nothing.

Yea, we can look and see what a great job they did at USAIR, the IAM started the concessions train in 2002 by opening up their contract to supposedly avoid BK, they gave the company everything they wanted, the company filed, then went back for two more rounds of concessions in BK, then they helped NWA bust AMFA only to be rewarded by being decertified when the owners of NWA sold the company to Delta.

The IAM abandoned their members at TWA. The IAM had a successorship clause but abandoned it rather than risk being screwed out of money TWA owed their pension plan and lease payments for an engine they owned.

I once had a high opinion of the IAM, they have negotiated many good contracts over the years but for the last ten they have been in a downward spiral.

Josh

 

[700UW]

Credibility

 

[Kev3188]

I'm not an AMT, but if I may:

I think the better questions are:

1. What kind of union do *you* (as in M&E at AA) want?
2. Which one will best facilitate that?

Do you want one with an engaged membership?
A bottom-up hierarchy?
Accountability from elected leaders?

IMHO:

TWU: Appointed leaders makes this option D.O.A. Unless/until the constitution is changed, that's a deal breaker. One could also argue that the idea of "strength in numbers" is lost on them.

IAM: Would be my choice, but the membership has a long way to go towards rebuilding/remaking the structure. Bob's right that the last few years haven't been that good, but I do see signs of a turnaround. Maybe AA would be the first "real" test of a new way of doing things? I dunno...

AMFA: Not a fan of craft unions, but I understand why many AMT's are. I *do* like how transparently they operate, and also that almost w/o exception, the elected leaders still do their "regular job" day in/day out. That's a huge plus in their favor. It's pretty hard to grow as out of touch as someone like Jim Little is when you're still on the floor.

JMHO...

 

[blue collar]

Kev's got some good descriptions. Having experienced all three unions, I would say that my choice would be AMFA, mainly due to the transparency and the fact that its a union of mechanics, for mechanics (I do like craft unions). If I were still at AA or US, I would be signing a card for AMFA.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

We currently have a Teamsters drive underway.

Have you guys at USAir read the www.mechanicsforchange.com web pages the IAM guys at UAL are unhappy with the IBT. Some others are looking to bring back AMFA? What has the IBT promised you to have you sign Teamster cards?

 

[AP Tech]

Really don't think it has to do what the Teamster's have promised but rather the IAM's lacking!! A little competition never hurt anybody!!

 

[lineguy43]

I'm not an AMT, but if I may:

I think the better questions are:

1. What kind of union do *you* (as in M&E at AA) want?
2. Which one will best facilitate that?

Do you want one with an engaged membership?
A bottom-up hierarchy?
Accountability from elected leaders?

IMHO:

TWU: Appointed leaders makes this option D.O.A. Unless/until the constitution is changed, that's a deal breaker. One could also argue that the idea of "strength in numbers" is lost on them.

IAM: Would be my choice, but the membership has a long way to go towards rebuilding/remaking the structure. Bob's right that the last few years haven't been that good, but I do see signs of a turnaround. Maybe AA would be the first "real" test of a new way of doing things? I dunno...

AMFA: Not a fan of craft unions, but I understand why many AMT's are. I *do* like how transparently they operate, and also that almost w/o exception, the elected leaders still do their "regular job" day in/day out. That's a huge plus in their favor. It's pretty hard to grow as out of touch as someone like Jim Little is when you're still on the floor.

JMHO...

Probably the most intelligent post on here...Kev....I know we agree to disagree as you know I prefer a craft union but you most certainly see whats going on.

 

[737823]

I'm not an AMT, but if I may:

I think the better questions are:

1. What kind of union do *you* (as in M&E at AA) want?
2. Which one will best facilitate that?

Do you want one with an engaged membership?
A bottom-up hierarchy?
Accountability from elected leaders?

IMHO:

TWU: Appointed leaders makes this option D.O.A. Unless/until the constitution is changed, that's a deal breaker. One could also argue that the idea of "strength in numbers" is lost on them.

IAM: Would be my choice, but the membership has a long way to go towards rebuilding/remaking the structure. Bob's right that the last few years haven't been that good, but I do see signs of a turnaround. Maybe AA would be the first "real" test of a new way of doing things? I dunno...

AMFA: Not a fan of craft unions, but I understand why many AMT's are. I *do* like how transparently they operate, and also that almost w/o exception, the elected leaders still do their "regular job" day in/day out. That's a huge plus in their favor. It's pretty hard to grow as out of touch as someone like Jim Little is when you're still on the floor.

JMHO...

Kev, why is a craft union not good? You keep saying that Roach, Buffy and their other IAM cronies are out of step with the needs of workers today (your words), a craft union provides leadership that is familiar with workers, accountable, and transparent. The IAM and TWU are trying to be too many things to too many people. You have the TWU representing bus drivers, subway operators, AMTs, rampers, flight attendants, its obvious they are trying to line up as many dues payers as they possibly can. Same is true with the IAM, they are trying to be too many things for too many people. Sure the leadership and divisions may operate separately and they have specialists in air transport and other divisions but its still hard for Buffy to truly relate to and understand what a job in the airlines entails vs a manufacturing job at GE vs a technician all of which IAM represents.

Josh

 

[Kev3188]

Kev, why is a craft union not good?

I don't like them since it's traditionally pitted one group of workers against everyone else. For example, in a hospital, it may be nurses vs. everyone else. In aviation, it's usually AMT's vs. everyone else (for the sake of this discussion, I'm not including pilots or DX'ers, thought you could certainly make the case for them as well). I'm more interested in a group that's unified across the board. And if they can align all their CBA's to expire at the same time, all the better.

...a craft union provides leadership that is familiar with workers, accountable, and transparent.

There are locals here and there that deliver this, but it's not near widespread enough. All unions *should* be run that way. Right now-at least in aviation, anyway- AMFA seems to be the only one actually doing so.

 

[Kev3188]

Probably the most intelligent post on here...Kev....I know we agree to disagree as you know I prefer a craft union but you most certainly see whats going on.

Thanks, man.

We're certainly on different sides of the same equation, but I think we're both looking for to achieve the same aim. One thing we *absolutely* see eye to eye on is the way AMFA structures their day to day operations. From where I sit that has a demonstrable effect on just how engaged the membership is.

 

[blue collar]

I don't like them since it's traditionally pitted one group of workers against everyone else.

Kev-
I don't agree with your view that it pits one group against the others, just as I dont view myself as against the pilots/fa's/rampers/agents. We're all in this together, but for me, I think being in a union for AMTs will protect my best interests. I think industrial unions cause more strife between work groups. How many times have you heard that 'rampers rode the mechanics coat tails', or something to the effect of mechanics subsidizing ramp wages? With craft unions, it's about what your group can negotiate for itself, so there won't be any animosity.
Jmho