Amfa Doubletalk!

[Rusty]

Scabber, would you please show us some documentaion that says AMFA has lost the election???

 

[Stop the Bus..I Want Off!!]

Scabber, would you please show us some documentaion that says AMFA has lost the election???

Good luck Rusty!! It's obvious this one has been hit too many times in the head with baggage!! It's also obvious he doesn't have a clue what he is talking about. You would definetly have to go back to basics with this one!!

Keep the Faith.........AMFA NOW!!!!!!!!!

 

[High Speed Steel]

Wow, That Scab Scraper sounds like he is on a mission to clean off the Windshield..! I hear he has a Scraper about the size of a " Snow Shovel"...You boy's better look out, he may be coming to a Car Wash near you soon....!!!!!

---------------------------------
AMFA: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where bargaining means YOU GO....!

 

[Bob Owens]

TABLOID BOB SAID,



200 verses THOUSANDS at NW? Are you high???

Thats over 2000 (thousand) mechanics. Even more in Fleet service.

 

[Strake]

NWA is down to around 3500 from 10,000 plus! I guess thats why those amfa represented employees go here for instructions on how to sign up for employment compensation and find out about the mechanic information carreer fair that can be found here. I see they are offering information on how to be a BUS mechanic.

Need to fix a BUS, you can and the amfa can show you how!

I was asked in another post why I thought AA mechanics would suffer if amfa were to somehow get on AA property. That post can be found here. Be sure to check out how "Tabloid Bob" blue dme in his reply. I feel so honored. I also find it amazing how these bozo amfa pukes cry about belonging to a "bus drivers union" and then turn right around a tout TWU local 100. :blink:

Here is just the post. Maybe "Tabloid Bob" might want to blew me again. At least read the contract Bob.

I base my view partly on what has occured at NWA and what has been struck out and added in the NWA/amfa contract. I do realize the NWA/amfa contract was inherited from the IAM. I also concur that the TWU/AA contract has very good job protections in it. Based on what I have read so far (in the NWA/amfa contract), I believe that if amfa were to somehow get on the property here at AA that eventualy the employment of non licensed A&P technicians would suffer. Should another RIF occur (and one eventually will), I can envision many highly skilled welders, platers, machinists etc... getting bumped out of their positions by higher seniority A&P technicians who do not posess those skills necessary for those postions. Forcing the company to look elsewhere for those services and starting what I call a snow-ball effect of RO'ing work and layoffs. If the company gets to the point that it can't "rework" its engine parts or landing gear, then its only recourse is to send that work out the door. At that point they certainly don't need those Licensed A&P technicians standing there in front of the machines with there thumbs up there asses because they don't know how to run the machines! Even with these times of cost cutting I don't believe AA wants to get completely out the engine or landing gear business (thats not to say the company wouldn't love to cut more heads). I believe with an AA/amfa contract in place that scenario described above to be inevitable.




NO CARD.....NO VOTE......NO AMFA!!!!!

 

[Rusty]

NWA is down to around 3500 from 10,000 plus!

Does the 6500 people down in your statement include the [2,433 total Mechanic and Related who where laid off in the two force-majure events] at NWA that can be proven in the proceeding document???

Force-majure NWA/AMFA

150 of the 1,888 who were furloughed in force-majureII are to to be brought back with full compensation of pay and benefits lost as a result of the their furlough.

2,433-150=2,283


Now how many jobs have been lost here at AA due to the same events, over 3,000 in the mechanic craft and class, more??? AA/twu have submitted a list with people that either the work was out-sourced and they went wwith it or they were furloghed, You might go count them up and take a stab at it!!!


Do any of these people have a chance to come back to work with full back pay???
Did anybody at AA lose pay and benefits???

At least read the contract Bob.

I find it very interesting that you believe you know more about our contract (for that matter any contract) than Bob does so please explain to us what more you know???

I base my view partly on what has occured at NWA and what has been struck out and added in the NWA/amfa contract.

Show us what part of the NWA contract that is struck out that you do not agree with, rather than making sweeping statements. If you cannot I will have to deduct that you are in fact spewing crap that you do not understand.

I do realize the NWA/amfa contract was inherited from the IAM.

Wrong again Strake, the NWA contract is in total, an AMFA contract. There are things that were not changed from the time before the IAM was booted out but, all Articles were gone over by the membership after AMFA was voted in!!!

I also concur that the TWU/AA contract has very good job protections in it.

Well now, we can agree on this one and as a matter of fact if the twu had not opened the veil of protection the company would of had to use the force-majure clause to furlough. This language came from the NWA contract, and is very good and it will still be in effect when AMFA is on the property!!!

Based on what I have read so far (in the NWA/amfa contract), I believe that if amfa were to somehow get on the property here at AA that eventualy the employment of non licensed A&P technicians would suffer.

"eventually" By all means please show where there is any reason to believe that eventually non A&P will suffer!!! Again you spew the twu industrial union crap that has no substance!!!

Should another RIF occur (and one eventually will), I can envision many highly skilled welders, platers, machinists etc... getting bumped out of their positions by higher seniority A&P technicians who do not posess those skills necessary for those postions. Forcing the company to look elsewhere for those services and starting what I call a snow-ball effect of RO'ing work and layoffs. If the company gets to the point that it can't "rework" its engine parts or landing gear, then its only recourse is to send that work out the door. At that point they certainly don't need those Licensed A&P technicians standing there in front of the machines with there thumbs up there asses because they don't know how to run the machines!

Perhaps you would care to explain why the these other classifications have lower senior people working at NWA than the AMT classification???

Even with these times of cost cutting I don't believe AA wants to get completely out the engine or landing gear business (thats not to say the company wouldn't love to cut more heads). I believe with an AA/amfa contract in place that scenario described above to be inevitable.

You seem to be having a hard time here. First, this contract is in place through 2008. Second, the same language used for job protection is in NWA/AMFA contract. You do have a valid point here though, and that is, AA does not want to send our work to a third party just to pay more to have the work done. Are we to start bidding with third party maintenance and may the lowest bidder win??? Should we just go along with the idea that third party maintenance centers need to cut pay and benefits in order to get more work and then in turn carriers cut maintenance pay and benefits to keep it???

 

[Strake]

Hmm, more blew, I must be getting close.

 

[Strake]

Does the 6500 people down in your statement include the [2,433 total Mechanic and Related who where laid off in the two force-majure events] at NWA that can be proven in the proceeding document???

Force-majure NWA/AMFA


Yes, and I noticed something in the document here that illustrates a lapse in the amfa's ability to negotiate a contract. Keep in mind the 3000 who lost their jobs in the mechanic craft and class here at AA equates to about %7 of those represented which pales in comparison to the %65 who lost there jobs and were represented by the amfa at NWA. I quote from page 17 and 18 of the FM.

" The Company asserts, as a procedural point, the amfa's grievance does not raise the issue of recall. Moreover, it says, nothing in the force majeure clause addresses recall. It is Article 11 that governs recall and allows management to execise discretion when to end a furlough based on the needs of service, the Company notes. It charges that amfa's argument that the force majeure clause includes a "duration" requirement is an attempt to insert language into the Agreement that the Association <_< never obtained in bargaining, :huh: unlike other employee organizations such as that representing the pilots." :blink:

Further down it continues...

"while the Association attempted to gain in negotiations a pledge that no furloughs would occur while any maintenance was work was outsourced, it did not succeed in achieving that outcome. Therefore, says the Company, the Association should not be allowed to gain in arbitration what it did not get in negotiations."

I find it very interesting that you believe you know more about our contract (for that matter any contract) than Bob does so please explain to us what more you know???

OK, Here is something I noticed in the NWA/amfa contract in Article 2 under (F) SUBCONTRACTING. If you look at (F)3.a.(1)(b)and( c ) and then read (F)3.c.(2) you can deduce that %100 percent of the work described in (F)3.a.(1)(b)and( c ) can be outsourced under (F)3.c(2)( c ) and not the not the limit of %18 described in (F)3.a.(1)( b ) or the %28 cap described in (F)3.a(1)( c ).

Show us what part of the NWA contract that is struck out that you do not agree with, rather than making sweeping statements.

Here is a bone for you Rusty, check out Article 9 and Article 11 of the NWA/amfa contract to find out what I do not agree with. Or you can just read the amfa/NWA question and answer sheet #1 dated March 26, 2003. At one time you could find the answer sheet on amfa's local33 website. I wonder why it was removed?????? If someone has this file q&a_52603.htm, would you please post it?

Oh and Rusty, don't forget about that job fair on Tuesday!


Whats up with green you ask??? amfa puke

 

[Mark Inman]

Hey Rusty He's going to need an unlimited long-distance phone line to do that(add up the level of out sourcing at AA that is) .Twu and AA doesn’t give out that kind of info. You have to call and talk to the people who are working at those contractors and MRO's like we did. Or you can sit back stuff another doughnut in your fat mouth and dream up lies for the members who are paying you to represent them. At least until AMFA files cards with the NMB . Than they have to get off there worthless self serving assess. Double the lies mix in a large measure of threats and lightly sprinkle the top with truth which is very hard to come by for Twsrew rep's. Go blow smoke up your sheep at the halls ASSESS we have seen your games for 40 years. Even the people who are afraid to support the change to AMFA are hammering the twscrew rep's when they show up on the docks. The twu has no accountability to there members and as they try to protect there position at AA the members will lose even more. The twscrew vulcanizes it's self to the company and next thing you know the members are paying the company to negotiate for them with the company. If you don't beleave it read AA's final submission to the NMB then read Twscrews. They were either written by the same person or they worked together on it. No Vote NO PEACE !!!!!

 

[Mark Inman]

Hey Strake: How does Northwest compare. to the over 12000 TWA people who were represented by IAM who have now lost there jobs for ever, most of them without severance pay due to the help of Twscrew and AA. If you can't see past your pecker maybe you should keep your comments a little more general. NO VOTE :angry: NO PEACE!!!!

 

[Rusty]

Keep in mind the 3000 who lost their jobs in the mechanic craft and class here at AA equates to about %7 of those represented which pales in comparison to the %65 who lost there jobs and were represented by the amfa at NWA. I quote from page 17 and 18 of the FM.

So you are saying 3,000 = 7% of 18,661??????? Go take a basic math class Strake!!! Also, did you come up with that 65% in a wet dream???

AMFA is the only Union in our Craft and Class that is actually fighting furloughs and out-sourcing. When AA used the force-majure clause and then recalled to avoid severance pay did you read the grievance the twu filed? If so what did you think of the language?

Yes, and I noticed something in the document here that illustrates a lapse in the amfa's ability to negotiate a contract. Keep in mind the 3000 who lost their jobs in the mechanic craft and class here at AA equates to about %7 of those represented which pales in comparison to the %65 who lost there jobs and were represented by the amfa at NWA. I quote from page 17 and 18 of the FM.

" The Company asserts, as a procedural point, the amfa's grievance does not raise the issue of recall. Moreover, it says, nothing in the force majeure clause addresses recall. It is Article 11 that governs recall and allows management to execise discretion when to end a furlough based on the needs of service, the Company notes. It charges that amfa's argument that the force majeure clause includes a "duration" requirement is an attempt to insert language into the Agreement that the Association never obtained in bargaining, unlike other employee organizations such as that representing the pilots."

Further down it continues...

"while the Association attempted to gain in negotiations a pledge that no furloughs would occur while any maintenance was work was outsourced, it did not succeed in achieving that outcome. Therefore, says the Company, the Association should not be allowed to gain in arbitration what it did not get in negotiations."

You only posted the company's position. I take it that you agree with that position???

OK, Here is something I noticed in the NWA/amfa contract in Article 2 under (F) SUBCONTRACTING. If you look at (F)3.a.(1)(b)and( c ) and then read (F)3.c.(2) you can deduce that %100 percent of the work described in (F)3.a.(1)(b)and( c ) can be outsourced under (F)3.c(2)( c ) and not the not the limit of %18 described in (F)3.a.(1)( b ) or the %28 cap described in (F)3.a(1)( c ).

You got me there Strake, these paragraphs talk about Plant and Facilities maintains. They cover the warranty work and return equipment. Are you saying that if a cart, fork lift, pickup truck, or some other equipment is bad from the manufacture then facilities or plant maintenance should do the work to fix it instead of sending it back while still under warranty??? I can say once again though, that this classification has lower seniority at NWA than does the AMT classification. "Proof is in the pudding" comes to mind but, like I said you got me on this one, so please explain what you are talking about.

 

[Strake]

So you are saying 3,000 = 7% of 18,661??????? Go take a basic math class Strake!!! Also, did you come up with that 65% in a wet dream???

OOPS! My bad...3000= %16 of 18661 and not %7, however 6500 is %65 of 10,000 so one could only assume you protest the percentage. Feel free to post the "correct" percentage of laid off, amfa represented employees.

 

[scorpion]

strake says

I can envision many highly skilled welders, platers, machinists etc... getting bumped out of their positions by higher seniority A&P technicians who do not posess those skills necessary for those postions. Forcing the company to look elsewhere for those services and starting what I call a snow-ball effect of RO'ing work and layoffs. If the company gets to the point that it can't "rework" its engine parts or landing gear, then its only recourse is to send that work out the door.

Okay bonehead I can see someone from the machine world has been spreading the sky is falling B.S. and your buying it no questions asked. I've read what your talking about in the N/W contract, but what has this got to do with AA. When AMFA gets in and we negotiate where does it say that our contract has to mirror N/W's. All AMFA contracts are'nt the same just like all iam or twu contracts are'nt the same. I personally don't want to bump a machinist or a welder, what would be the point if I'm not qualified to to the job.

Since your so well read whats our outsourcing percentage per our scope clause. Try emailing the international with this question. Then ask them to show you the numbers on outsourcing that the company is supposed to give them every January and july. When you get this info post it here for all to see.

 

[Strake]

OOPS! My bad...3000= %16 of 18661 and not %7, however 6500 is %65 of 10,000 so one could only assume you protest the percentage. Feel free to post the "correct" percentage of laid off, amfa represented employees.

OK Rusty, I'm going to help you out here, according to what was printed Sunday 27/JUN/04 in "The Detroit News", the correct percentage of laid off amfa represented employees is %47.1 . That is almost 3 times the rate of TWU represented employees at AA. A link to the story can be found here.

 

[1AA]

OK Rusty, I'm going to help you out here, according to what was printed Sunday 27/JUN/04 in "The Detroit News", the correct percentage of laid off amfa represented employees is %47.1 . That is almost 3 times the rate of TWU represented employees at AA. A link to the story can be found here.

Again I see the spin doctors on the same photo again. Is that all you got? Nice try you idiot.
Here is the real untouched photo.