2014 Maintenance & Related & AMFA Cards

[swamt]

 
SWAMT I think you are weeks ahead of your self I think it is more like 12 weeks.

 
 

They filed the week of AUG 4th 14 weeks is right....

Travis is correct.  If I am correct the filing was done on the 6th of Aug.  This past Nov 5th made an even 13 weeks.  My post said going on 14 weeks.  The 14 weeks mark is this coming Wed the 12th.  Yes my post was only 2 days past the 13 weeks hence the going on 14 weeks.  Today we are still going into the 14 weeks.  12 weeks passed 2 weeks ago.  This is in fact the longest the NMB has taken to give a ruling on SCS for any US based airline.  None of this really matters of the exact time frame, just expanding on the time the NMB is taking, and, the longer they take the better for AMFA to collect more cards.  Keep up the good work guys, it will pay off this time IMO.  It is NOW or NEVER this time around and I hope all the AA and US members actually know this.  It will more than likely be the last chance to get AMFA in at the new AA.  Once this alliance (if this alliance gets in) goes thru you guys will be stuck with it for the rest of your careers, again, my opinion.  
700's post that we or you guys are begging for more cards from the 3 readers on this board is completely off base.  He has no clue how many US mechanics actually read this board. Some may never ever post but trust me, many of them read it, as does the AA and US company side.  He also has no clue of the actual numbers of cards from either side.  I do, as well as others, and they (the numbers) are really looking positive.  I honestly think the organizers are holding quiet this time around as it has bitten them in the a$$ for the last 2 times AMFA drives were done at AA.  Stay focussed, stay strong, the time will come.  Let the NMB take all the time they want, it only gives AMFA a longer time frame to collect the cards, the more the better.  Once the NMB rules on this alliance fiasco, and if they order a vote from the memberships then AMFA will be givin a time frame to collect and send in their cards, during this said time frame the cards will pick up once members actually realize they will have a vote and this is the only chance to get to 1-vote on this BS alliance being forced upon them, and 2-the only chance to get AMFA on the ballot, and 3-because they will all want another option besides voting FOR the alliance,  AGAINST the alliance (which may very well be a no-union or non-union choice)  If AMFA can get on the ballot this time around they will in fact have a great chance as we have all been told of the other options.  If AMFA is not able to collect enough cards then it will be very hard to run the AMFA write-in campaign.  But the membership must be educated that they still will have this option AS LONG AS the NMB is conducting this said alliance vote.  Good luck to you all at AA and US.  Once the announcement comes of a vote (if it comes) then the chatter from the TWU and IAM camps will dramatically increase with all the lies, mis-information, and AMFA bashers 10 fold.  Be prepared to counter all these lies with factual and PROOF of how they are full of shite.  What we have all experienced so far is nothing once the NMB announces an election will happen, IF they rule that an election will happen.  It is still not for sure that will even be an election.  I do not trust the TWU/IAM/NMB, too many behind closed doors meetings have already happened.  Keep strong, stay focused, above all keep providing all written and factual information when proving the alliance unions wrong and this will be your best defence in the long run.   I am still wondering why it is taking so long to catagorize these groups as far as craft and class is concerned, and I still say something is up...

 

[TRAVIS]

Keep begging for cards from the three US Mechanics that read the board, lol!

The IAM still BEGGING to meet with the TWU as they NO SHOWED in DAL for the IAM BIG Pow Wow!             

 

[TRAVIS]

THIS MIGHT BE THE REASON FOR THE IAM BEGGING. The letters were posted on the AA side so here they are..  LOL.....
 
Letter #1:
 
October 10, 2014
 
Dear Brother Pantoja,
 
During the past few months we have had numerous discussions regarding our concerns with several issues in the TWU/IAM Association Agreement.
 
While we will not be attending negotiations preparation sessions at the W3- Placid Harbor Training Center, we will continue meetings regarding Seniority List Integration, as specified in the Agreement dated April 24, 2013. Furthermore, the following Association items remain unresolved and require immediate attention:
 
1. System Ratio problems;
2. Boston Representation; and
3. Strike vote (which as written violates the TWU Constitution).
 
In accord with the spirit and intent of our Association agreements, I am asking that a meeting be scheduled between the Presidents of each union, or their designees, to resolve these issues, prior to their being submitted to arbitration for resolution. Once these issues are resolved, we can proceed to devote full attention to preparations for collective bargaining with the company. Please let me know as soon as possible IAM’s availability--both as to time and place -- for a final effort to resolve outstanding issues through discussion.
 
Fraternally,
Garry Drummond
Director Air Transport Division
 
 
Letter #2 (response to letter 1)
 
October 24, 2014
 
Dear Brother Drummond,
 
In response to your recent communication regarding our TWU/IAM Association
implementation, the lAM is in full agreement that your pursuit of the issues you cite have
caused an unreasonable delay in our forward-moving preparation for representation on the
new American Airlines. The lAM and TWU have had no dispute that the Association documents
are clear and unambiguous regarding those issues. It is unfortunate that the entire process is
still held up over the undisputed plain language of those documents; documents that were
agreed to by the TWU and signed by the highest authority within your organization, the
International President and as approved by your lAC.
 
The lAM simply has no appetite to undo our agreement, horse-trade members in Boston to
satisfy an internal TWU promise or cause any further delay in the important business of
preparing for negotiations that will result in the best airline contracts in the industry with the
most secure pension available. To that end, we agree to meet as soon as possible. We can
adjust schedules as necessary for the remainder of this month. Please supply immediate dates
you are available for coordinating a meeting.
 
Inasmuch as TWU had committed to joint contract negotiations preparations at the lAM Placid
Harbor Training Center and scheduling of guests, trainers and speakers (including the NMB}
have been accomplished, the Association will proceed with the meetings and preparation at the
Training Center. There, the Association will develop negotiating goals, a communications
strategy and surveys for proposals from all members represented by the Association.
It is our understanding from discussions with you that TWU locals have a certain level of
autonomy within your organization and your negotiators will likely include TWU local
Presidents. Therefore, while you indicate you will not attend the preparation sessions, the
Association extends an invitation to all TWU local Presidents representing American Airlines
workers covered by the Association.
 
Responses to that invitation should be made without delay to the undersigned at
tklima@iam Participants should be aware that the lAM will provide room, boarding and
transportation to and from the airport are provided with travel days November 15 and
November 20.
 
Brother Garry, we are poised to be the biggest and the best in the airline industry. The lAM is
committed to achieving everything possible for our collective members. We would be doing a
disservice to our members by not properly and expeditiously preparing for negotiations.
 
Fraternally,
Tim Klima
Airline Coordinator
 
 
Letter #3 (response to letter 2)
 
October 27, 2014
 
Dear President Buffenbarger:
 
I have read the letter of October 24, 2014 from Tim Klima, Airline Coordinator for IAM, to Garry Drummond, Air Transport Division Director for TWU. I must begin this letter by informing you that the letter filled me with disappointment, alarm, and even anger. I believe that, as I will detail below, it strikes a blow at the fundamental relationship that should exist between the IAM and TWU in the Joint Associations that have been established to represent classes and crafts of the new single carrier American Airlines employees. Mr. Klima’s appeal to TWU Local Presidents undermines the basic structure of these agreements, by appealing to local officers of TWU to undermine a decision made by the International leadership of TWU regarding meeting with IAM regarding joint activities of the two unions; in doing so, it raises the very disturbing prospect that such appeals to local officers and even members of TWU may characterize our ongoing relationship, and be applied to a range of differences of opinion between the two International unions regarding relations with AA and other matters. I strongly believe that the ability of the Joint Associations to productively represent the classes or crafts of employees involved at AA requires that action be taken as soon as humanly possible to correct the fundamentally subversive thrust of Mr. Klima’s letter: this can best be accomplished, in accord with the spirit and the letter of the Joint Association agreements, by a meeting between me and you; but our lawyers should be instructed, pending such a meeting, to set up an arbitration date as provided for by the Joint Associations Agreements, to resolve this fundamental dispute should we be unable to.
 
The nature of the dispute should not require a lot of explanation. Our agreements are agreements between TWU and IAM; they do not provide for any sharing of members;they do not set up any sort of new labor organization with an existence independent of that of the two International Unions; and the structure of the Associations at all points looks to joint action between the two unions as embodied entirely by their International Presidents or their designees. There is no room in the agreement for politicking by one union among the other’s officers and members; particularly when designed to undermine the wishes of the International leadership of the other union. Undeniably, everything about the structure and the relationship set up by the Agreements is entirely antithetical to the appeal that Mr. Klima has made to TWU local Presidents to take action with the IAM independent of and contrary to the expressed policy and wishes of TWU.
 
The violation of our Agreement by Mr. Klima’s letter is so basic that it takes precedence over all the disputes set forth in Mr. Drummond’s letter of October 10, 2014 to Mr. Pantoja. Those disputes deal with important questions regarding the Agreements; but they cannot be said to go to the heart of it the way this one does. Indeed, Mr. Drummond’s suggestion that the specified issues be dealt with by you and me prior to going to arbitration is precisely how all disputes between the unions are to be resolved under the Agreement; not, as Mr. Klima would have it, by an appeal to the officers of the local unions who are part of TWU, accompanied by a general ridiculing of TWU’s position on issues whose resolution is supposed to be the realm of an arbitrator, not that of one side or the other exercising its self-interested judgment.
 
As I said above, the issue raised in Mr. Klima’s letter must be tackled directly, and as soon as possible before any other issue can be properly approached, since it implicates the entire way in which relations between our unions must be handled under our Joint Association Agreements. I look forward to hearing from you promptly on setting up a meeting between us to set this right, and to make certain that the violations embodied in Mr. Klima’s letter are not repeated. Absent resolution of the issue between us, which I believe should require neither a lot of time nor a lot of difficult thought- let us have our lawyers set up an arbitration to resolve the issue. Following that, we can again clear up the other issues between us, and set up joint efforts to deal with the company in a way that maximizes our collective strength without compromising our institutional integrity.
 
Fraternally,
Harry Lombardo
International President
 
 
And of course.....
 
October 27, 2014
 
Dear Brother Klima:
I am in receipt of your letter dated October 24, 2014, via your email.  I will address the primary topic of your letter first, before proceeding into your embellishing account of the association’s very existence and your inclusion of me in your email.
 
I can certainly understand, from your perspective, the need and urgency for negotiations training, by IAM, based on the recently ratified agreement with the “New American” for your M&R group.  As I also recall, IAM made it clear they would not participate in pre-merger talks with US Airways management because they were in negotiations and the former TWU International President chose to go it alone with them.  What we have since found out is that was a critical mistake by the IAM and former TWU representatives, because other represented groups were able to negotiate substantial gains during that time for all their members.  This came at a time when US Airways management was ripe for negotiating, because they knew they needed support from the unions in getting their deal to lead the “New American” approved.  And then finally, after several years of fruitless negotiations with US Airways, IAM had the opportunity of a lifetime dropped into its lap at the bargaining table when the merger with American created the world’s largest airline.  Even as the “New American” announced record setting profits and management once again awarded themselves with millions of dollars in incentive pay, the IAM M&R negotiating committee fumbled away the opportunity for an industry leading pay-rate by agreeing to a paltry pay raise that only equaled what Legacy American management achieved through the 1113 bankruptcy process.  While Local 591 provided written support for IAM to use as leverage in negotiations and Local 591 members refused to work US Airways metal, outside of Scope the IAM Agreement, my membership watched in horror as IAM endorsed the M&R Agreement to its members. That new Agreement gave “any” American Airlines employee, not TWU member, the opportunity to do IAM work - in exchange for a layoff clause.  That language alone has provided the “New American” with significant synergies needed by management that they promised to shareholders and work to be done by non-union and union members, outside the Scope of the M&R Agreement, on US Airways metal.  At best, what I saw from the endorsement for ratification, of the M&R Agreement, was a willingness by IAM to accept the “trust us” mantra of the “New American” management team.  In my world, actions speak louder than words and after nearly of year working under the “New American” management structure and seeing the IAM’s ratified Agreement with them, I expect nothing less than a significant battle with management when the time comes to negotiate a combined airline Agreement.
 
As for your requested attendance at the IAM facility, I will not be attending because: (A.) the “Association” has not been approved by the NMB, (B.) nor has an affirmation vote in support of the “Association” by the respective TWU & IAM membership groups taken place.  Furthermore, I am not interested in learning how IAM has historically bargained. I have read the last two IAM negotiated Agreements with US Airways, cover-to-cover, and the results speak for themselves.  I can also promise you that the IAM cannot properly prepare a negotiating team with a curriculum that includes “guests, trainers, and speakers” while also planning to “develop negotiating goals, a communications strategy, and surveys for proposals” all in one week.  To believe that such a shortsighted strategy could work is both naive and a disservice to the dues paying members.  As a TWU President, before any effective “joint” negotiating plan can materialize, the NMB must first accept the “Association,” and an affirmation vote of both the TWU and IAM membership’s groups must then take place, and then and only then can a bargaining strategy of the “Association” be developed.
 
I did notice one item of truth in your letter; TWU does provide their Local’s with “a certain level of autonomy.”  While still bureaucratic, the TWU International Constitution does allow for a Local to not only question, but also properly challenge the organization at times.  I have read and do not see where the IAM Constitution, nor the Association Agreement, allows for the same.  President Lombardo has been clear that he intends to allow locally elected leaders, to represent the TWU membership (with support from TWU International) and not be a top down dictatorship that tells the membership what is in their best interest.  As you are also aware, President Lombardo continues to work on overcoming the past TWU leaders and International Representative’s shortcomings.  Another benefit of the autonomy TWU organizationally provides it Local’s, is our ability to communicate openly with our members.  Do locally elected IAM Presidents enjoy the same freedom of speech when representing their members criticizing and challenging the IAM District or International Lodge?  During the Local 591 membership meetings throughout the country the Local 591 Executive Board and myself have yet to find any current TWU represented station interested in being transitioned to IAM.  Members are vocal in expressing their apprehension, based on personal accounts and discussions with IAM members in these “joint represented” cities.  What I have heard from them is the noticeable difference on the availability of fact-based information from locally elected representatives and how TWU takes a “hands-on” grievance handling in the station from start to finish.  Based on my member’s observations in these “joint” cities, I cannot, in good conscious, support or agree that any Local 591 member should be forced to give up their TWU membership, for the IAM, in the “Association.”  I have also recently been told that in several of these cities, IAM representatives have told members that if they leave the IAM or vote against the Association, they will lose their pension.  This is simply not a true statement, it seems that someone within IAM has created a campaign of fear and intimidation regarding the IAM pension; which is a classic management diversion strategy.  I believe very strongly that IAM has an immediate responsibility to correct this falsehood to the IAM membership in writing.
 
Finally, with regard to your comment in your email which states the following: “I have tried to include all of the TWU presidents in the copy line. I would appreciate your help in assuring all of them get a copy. I don't know most of them except Gary Peterson and I want to be sure he gets his invitation since he played such a big role as an architect and early supporter of the Alliance Associations.”
You clearly knew that my role, while I was President of TWU Local 565, during the briefings at the IAM facility in Maryland, was to learn about the history of IAM, receive a brief overview of the IAM pension fund that included an explanation on why TWU may want to participate, and finally to participate in a discussion on what “an alliance between TWU and IAM might look like.”  At the time of the meeting, I was there to do nothing more than collect the data on IAM and report back on the information provided and any items discussed to the AA TWU President Council. It is absolutely a fib to say that I “played such a big role as an architect and early supporter of the Alliance Associations” simply because I was authorized to attend the briefings at the IAM facility, by the AA TWU Presidents Council. Furthermore, and for the IAM’s clarity of facts, former TWU International President Little consummated the “Association Agreement,” which was another tyrannical mistake that lead to his groups demise, without any vote of support for its approval by the AA TWU Presidents Council.
 
That said, I can only take your above comment as an attempt to smear my name, due to my Local’s objection to the “Association” currently before the NMB.  Clearly, you have no idea of the relationship that exists between myself and the other TWU Presidents listed in the email, all of them have already been debriefed on the facts of how the “Association” came to be.  The problem with a tactic like this is that it comes with an inherent flaw; you do not know the audience you wrote to. Up until now, the objections before the NMB came from Local 591 and through thousands of signed petitions by TWU members, but by trying to use my name in an effort to move the IAM’s organizational agenda forward, veiled in training for the “Association,” by inviting the TWU Presidents is weak at best.  You need to remember that while IAM may be a bigger organization overall than TWU, that on the American property IAM is much smaller than TWU.  I am also not sure why you believe that IAM can speak from a position of power when IAM is clearly in the minority, and by a sizeable margin in Maintenance and Related.  So although you may be under the impression, from your previous encounters with former TWU representatives, that you can somehow invoke a sense of fear or intimidation, within Local 591 no such fear exists.
 
In closing, while IAM International President Buffenbarger and former TWU International President Little may have entered in the “Association Agreement,” the current TWU leadership and membership did not.  If the NMB actually allows the “Association” to be on a ballot, and if the “Association” were to be successful in winning the election for representation, you can rest assured that I am fully prepared to enter negotiations, for a Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement, on behalf of the members I am elected to represent.
 
Fraternally,
Gary G. Peterson
President
 
 
 
TIME TO PUT THEM AMFA CARDS IN !

 

[swamt]

As we end week 15 and start 16, does anyone have any updates what-so-ever?  Anyone, AMFA?  TWU?  IAM?  Been extremely quiet lately.  Anyone know how the possible screwing to the IAM from the TWU is going?  Are they still avoiding the IAM meetings? Wonder what is in the works here?

 

[TRAVIS]

17 Weeks ??? The IAM must be begging on its knees to try to pass this BS with out a VOTE....

PUT YOUR AMFA CARD IN NOW OR YOU TOO WILL BE ON YOUR KNEES.......

 

[bikeguy]

AMFA any closer to filing at AA?

 

[MetalMover]

AMFA any closer to filing at AA?

Well, since AMFA has been hush hush and we haven't heard a peep from them, I would have to sadly say that it appears there is not enough interest in TUL as the TWU is winning the propoganda war scaring mechanics there that OH will cease to exist if AMFA gets voted in....I guess AA will cave into AMFA's demands and shut that base down in exchange for a few sheckels in pay.
I invite them to view the DP state of the airline video. Just scroll down the Tulsa Maintenance base clip. Seymour addresses that issue. As he does DWH. 

 

[AANOTOK]

AMFA any closer to filing at AA?

I didn't know there was still a drive going on...not much chatter lately.

 

[Vortilon]

Well, since AMFA has been hush hush and we haven't heard a peep from them, I would have to sadly say that it appears there is not enough interest in TUL as the TWU is winning the propoganda war scaring mechanics there that OH will cease to exist if AMFA gets voted in....I guess AA will cave into AMFA's demands and shut that base down in exchange for a few sheckels in pay.
I invite them to view the DP state of the airline video. Just scroll down the Tulsa Maintenance base clip. Seymour addresses that issue. As he does DWH. 

There is more than one avenue for the AMFA to get in at AA.  It hinges on the NMB decision on how to legally & fairly allow a membership vote on representation.  Right now; it seems, the NMB by virtue of the fact that this decision has taken so long, is looking for ways to circumvent a membership vote.  We have been on the short end of the straw for every NMB decision thus far. 
Any AA AMT that has any faith in the TWU, should really stop and think about all the complete screw-ups this organization has made over the last 30 years with regard to AMTs.  Look at the recent bungling of our equity payout.  The TWU is ripping us all off.  Look at the lack of effort on pressuring the company to get us our prefunding match returned to us.  The weak protest letter to the company when the recent 4% pay raise was bestowed on the rest of the company.  Still haven't seen a company response.  The complete pandering to the wishes of the local 514 leadership.  We all know that local 514 has such a wonderful history of taking into account the wishes of AA AMTs systemwide.  Local 514's agenda has screwed us all in the past, and for years to come.  Local 514's leadrship takes advantage of the fact that a good portion of their membership doesn't study the issues on their own.  This allows the 514 leadership to form whatever narrative they need to sway the membership's vote.  They like to roll out that old chestnut "if we don't accept less, the company will farm out all overhaul".  Another favorite: "if you sign an AMFA card, they will allow the company to farm out all overhaul like SWA".  Is that leadership? 
 
AMFA isn't going away; rather, just evolving.  Almost every day, the TWU & IAM miss the boat on an opportunity to better the lives of the membership.

 

[swamt]

Basically AMFA is waiting for the ruling from the NMB.  They have cards, they are keeping cards current as they fall off during this wait period.  You guys better hope there is a vote for this association.  Of course I would like to see you guys bring in AMFA, but I really hope you guys just get to vote on this association BS,  if they push the association thru without a membership vote, then the AMFA cards will fly in.  If they bless the association, but force an election by the membership then I still think AMFA will get on the ballot or at least will be a "write-in" choice if givin that choice by the NMB.  Good luck to you guys, hope you all hear something this quarter...

 

[2ndGENAMT]

Well, since AMFA has been hush hush and we haven't heard a peep from them, I would have to sadly say that it appears there is not enough interest in TUL as the TWU is winning the propoganda war scaring mechanics there that OH will cease to exist if AMFA gets voted in....I guess AA will cave into AMFA's demands and shut that base down in exchange for a few sheckels in pay.
I invite them to view the DP state of the airline video. Just scroll down the Tulsa Maintenance base clip. Seymour addresses that issue. As he does DWH.

Seymour addressed it but really said nothing. The question raised about concrete plans for Tulsa was from someone who stated I don't care about Profit Sharing or any of that I just want to be secure in my job without the uncertainty about being laid off.

This is what the TWU has created in Tulsa a belief that ruining your career is OK as long as you keep your JOB.

 

[mike33]

17 Weeks ??? The IAM must be begging on its knees to try to pass this BS with out a VOTE....

PUT YOUR AMFA CARD IN NOW OR YOU TOO WILL BE ON YOUR KNEES.......

 
 
http://www.usaamerger.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/TWU-IAM-Letter-Jan-2015.pdf

 

[2ndGENAMT]

"Be assured that the leadership of both TWU and IAM are diligently preparing for negotiations and will fight for American Airlines workers to achieve our goal of industry leading contracts for our covered titles."

They always say Fight for the workers then target certain groups to get a contract ratified and I do not believe the Association will be any different!

 

[MetalMover]

Seymour addressed it but really said nothing. The question raised about concrete plans for Tulsa was from someone who stated I don't care about Profit Sharing or any of that I just want to be secure in my job without the uncertainty about being laid off.

This is what the TWU has created in Tulsa a belief that ruining your career is OK as long as you keep your JOB.

We will see what happens there. What remains of TUL might hinge on a "special" arrangement for the base. Maybe a separate entity with vastly different work rules and pay rates. Since that person claimed she didn't care about PS and just wants security, well she represents way more than one would think. Now the company knows the sentiment of the TUL workforce, there might very well be a place for that base after all. Maybe TUL's future lies ahead in JCBA. 

 

[Bob Owens]

 
 
I know that integration and your IAM Pension are two of the top things on your mind. But think about this.  AA did away with the Pilots/Flight attendants/TWU pension, moved to a 401K.
 
Do you really think that AA will continue to fund your IAMNPF while not having something with the rest of the employees? Even you IAM NPF leaders have threatened you if you vote out the IAM. Have you LQQKED at the restrictions you have with that Plan. 
 
 

I believe that AA would love to dump the TWU Pension, and 401K in exchange for the IAMNPF. 
 
Thats one of my concerns.
 
In negotiations the company figured around 25% of the membership would not contribute enough to even get the full 5.5% 401k match, they also said there would be no savings by switching us over from the DB to the 401K in the near term, so even though the 401k 5.5% match comes out to more than the IAMNPF contribution based on current wages and based on a 40 hour work week  it appears that it would cost them more to fund the IAMNPF plan at current rates because 25% don't get it, but thats the problem with the IAMNPF, its a flat rate, no matter how much our hourly wage goes up or how many hours we work  they put in the same, with the 401K match the more we earn the more we get. Most of our mechanics are working a lot of OT, its likely they will be getting around $5500 in matching funds from the company, a mechanic under the IAMNPF will be getting at least $1000/year less than that put in the IAMNPF even if he earned more.
 
In addition to that, I believe, in order to sell the IAMNPF to the AA guys (and the company) they will try and get our AA pension rolled into the IAMNPF so they can make claims that our DB is restored, so in other words if we had 30 years in the AA plan we would have the same credited time in the IAMNPF. In reality our pension would be moved from a fairly secure place to a less secure place and our ability to retire at 60 without reduction and at 55 with just a 15% reduction would be gone, instead we would see a 24% reduction at 60 and 48% reduction at 55, 100% reduction until normal retirement age of 65 if we went back to working within the industry. On paper they would claim that our benefits at 65 remain unchanged, but leave out the fact that under the less secure multi-employer plan those benefits could be cut even after we retire. 
 
I understand that many at US want to keep their IAMNPF, even heard a few ex TWA guys say they want back in, I would even support allowing those in the plan to remain in it, but for us its a losing deal, for the IAMNPF it would be a huge cash infusion, even more so if they roll us into it because most of the liability that AA has is based on the provisions of the AA plan, such as retirement at 60 without reduction. IIRC each year normal retirement is pushed back comes out to a 7.5% cut in benefits, depending on actuarial assumptions that could mean that by rolling us into the IAMNPF and eliminating the ability to retire at 60 the entire shortfall in the TWU plan simply disappears. Early retirement is not considered a protected part of the plan unless you have exercised it. By rolling us all into the IAMNPF AA would not only end up with a less expensive fixed rate pension contribution but would also be able to eliminate millions of dollars in long term liability. We would be funding our own raises, and then some.