Amfa Or Twu For Jobs?

[Birdman]

Why does it always have to be the furloughed guy at NW. It all boils down to who has lost the most jobs, right? AGAIN, this will fall on DEAF EARS but, TWU LOST THOUSANDS OF JOBS. A furloughed man off our dock is now works for AAR in OKC working on OUR AIRLANES (ex-Reno). We don't have the room or the know-how?? TWUers act as if there is NO OUTSOUCING at AA. Sooo we do most (not all) our airframe work. That leaves according to USA Today about 41% outsourcing. AMFA is in court to resolve the "Force Majue" (layoffs) at NW and I applaud them for that. If they wanted to roll over and let the company gut their contract in spite of 3rd quarter profits thats THEIR CHOICE. You guys just can't get over THEM controling THEIR destiny. WHAT CONTROL DO WE AT AA HAVE OVER NW???Nothing we can do will change OUR contract till Jan. 1 2009. We can just seek better representation. And thats what we intend to do.

 

[Bob Owens]

So Bob, you ARE telling me that the unemployed NWA man is better off, you the man. Then why are you still working Bob? Why not add to your income and quit?
And go sell that theory on the floor, I'm sure you'll receive lots of feedback and resignations.

If I could take my seniority to NWA I would.

Its unfortunate that you cant look beyond that thing on your face. The point is not to resign but to demand more. Working for less is never a winning strategy if you are the one working. I'm sorry that concept is beyond you.

By the way dont you have weekends off down there in MCI? How can you be on the WEB and at work at the same time?

 

[AMFAMAN]

I figured CIO would post this first but it just didn't happen. WHY? 60 lost, 60 gained



American Eagle closing base

By Trebor Banstetter
Star-Telegram Staff Writer

FORT WORTH - American Eagle, the regional affiliate of American Airlines, will close its maintenance base in Lawton, Okla., as it slowly replaces older turboprop aircraft with new regional jets.

The Lawton facility, which employs 44 mechanics and 16 management and support workers, services the Saab 340 aircraft. Eagle has been retiring those airplanes as it adds regional jets to its fleet and has just 36 still operating, spokeswoman Lisa Bailey said.

Employees will be offered positions at other maintenance facilities, including the bases in Fort Worth and Chicago and a new facility planned for northwest Arkansas next year, airline executives said Thursday.

"Market forces beyond our control are driving these decisions," Peter Bowler, Eagle's president, said in a prepared statement. "Closing our longstanding Lawton maintenance facility was not an easy decision."

American's new labor contract with its pilots allows it to ramp up the use of cost-efficient regional jets, which provide a smoother ride than older turboprop aircraft.

In recent years, competitors such as Delta Air Lines have dramatically increased their use of regional jets, often replacing mainline jets on routes where travel demand has dropped.

"We value the contributions our Lawton employees have made to our organization, and I hope that they will choose to continue being a part of American Eagle Airlines," Bowler said.

 

[UAL_TECH]

So Bob, you ARE telling me that the unemployed NWA man is better off, you the man. Then why are you still working Bob? Why not add to your income and quit?
And go sell that theory on the floor, I'm sure you'll receive lots of feedback and resignations.

When do you take a stand?

UT

 

[Steve Connell]

Well, I would think in order to take a stand you need to be firstly, employed. Second being, the industry would have to be able to support your list of demands.

 

[Bob Owens]

So Bob, you ARE telling me that the unemployed NWA man is better off, you the man. Then why are you still working Bob? Why not add to your income and quit?
And go sell that theory on the floor, I'm sure you'll receive lots of feedback and resignations.

When do you take a stand?

UT

According to Steve you just keep saying "Live to fight another day" until you are either retired or unemployed.

Dont fight, just vote yes is his motto.

 

[Steve Connell]

Bob, my motto could be NOT to fight from the street, as the curbs have no ears.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, my motto could be NOT to fight from the street, as the curbs have no ears.

So in other words never go on STRIKE?

No matter what the company is taking away?

 

[UAL_TECH]

Well, I would think in order to take a stand you need to be firstly, employed. Second being, the industry would have to be able to support your list of demands.

Excellent!

So, your advice is to 'kow tow' to every corporate American scheme.

Please do not attempt to call yourself a 'unionist' because you do not know the meaning of the word!!!

My query was intentionally deceptional.
For a 'unionist' the answer is easy.

Q: "When do you make a stand?"

A: "ALWAYS"!!!

Be The Seed

UT

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

It seems as if Ole Steve will only stand when something effects him personally. Steve, you are simply an old iam die hard covered in twu clothes. Your belief in industrial unionism is simply an idea that does not work in the airlines. List me reasons why the twu should still represent AMTs at AA. That should be easy. :huh:

 

[Steve Connell]

And you all read a lot into issues. I did not say I would not strike, where did that come from? amfa101?
So in other words never go on STRIKE?
Are you stating we should strike here Bob? No matter what the company is taking away? The company has taken away a lot lately Bob, are you on strike? And ole Steve is here for ole Steve's family, not your frustration.List me reasons why the twu should still represent AMTs at AA. Ken, this one's easy, they are currently the bargaining agent for the membership @ AA.

 

[j7915]

So in other words never go on STRIKE?

No matter what the company is taking away?

Bob why don't YOU list your reasons for going on strike?

I have a better suggestion: given that the company will and can only dedicate a certain percentage of revenue to labor costs, why don't we suggest they bounce everyone back up to the contract scale, and then simply start laying off until the labor costs meet the available revenue.

 

[Bob Owens]

And you all read a lot into issues. I did not say I would not strike, where did that come from? amfa101?
So in other words never go on STRIKE?
Are you stating we should strike here Bob? No matter what the company is taking away? The company has taken away a lot lately Bob, are you on strike? And ole Steve is here for ole Steve's family, not your frustration.List me reasons why the twu should still represent AMTs at AA. Ken, this one's easy, they are currently the bargaining agent for the membership @ AA.

"Steve is here for ole Steve's family, not your frustration"


Spoken like a true scab.

I know now we will hear about how you went on strike for weeks for a 2% raise. Well what happened to you? Why would you be willing to strike for a pittance but then vote yes to give away everything? Because the company said that you would not have a job unless you agreed to it? Well isnt that what they always said?

Tell the truth here Steve you always voted yes and the only reason you went out is because you knew what life would be like if you crossed.

I would have rather have struck than agree to this contract. The fact is despite all the doom and gloom most of the players are still here. USAIR still here. UAL still here. They went bankrupt because of AA not the other LCCs. The fact is that even with all their cuts and outsourceing our maint costs are even lower than SWA, the supposed LCC that was such a threat to AA.

WE ARE THE BIGGEST LCC, and by undercutting everyone else all we did was set the stage for another round of cuts.


"Ken, this one's easy, they are currently the bargaining agent for the membership @ AA."

OK but if AMFA was voted in wouldnt they be the bargaining agent for the membership at AA? Yet you said if they were voted in you would not suport it. I agree that we should support the TWU when they are fighting for us however since they have failed to do that why should I still support them as opposed to a union that will be accountable to us?

With every statement you are revealing more and more about yourself.

You are unwilling to strike for better pay and benifits.

You will only support the union that is determined by the company, you will not support giving your coworkers the oiption to choose between unions and if they vote in AMFA you will not support it.

You report your friends to management if they say something stupid that could be interpreted as a thraet.

You were management.

Despite all this you claim to be a union man.

You must mean a "Company union" man.

Go ahead Steve keep yapping.

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob why don't YOU list your reasons for going on strike?

I have a better suggestion: given that the company will and can only dedicate a certain percentage of revenue to labor costs, why don't we suggest they bounce everyone back up to the contract scale, and then simply start laying off until the labor costs meet the available revenue.

Lets see;
17.5% pay cut
No Holdays
reduced sick time
1 week of vacation
health benifits
no doubletime
basically just look at our contract, if you could call it that.

In the past no one has ever given up as much, and they went on strike to get even less.

OK smart guy what is the percentage of revenue that a company can designate to wages? Does it matter what type of company it is, service vs manufacturing? Come on tell us what the number is. Oh wait. let me guess you have to ask the company right?

How much was top managements pay cut? Is that part of the equation?

Didnt the company make a profit last quarter? Then doesnt that mean that we gave them back more than they needed or is there a certian ROI in which we should be willing to slash our pay in order to meet also?

Doesnt our pay get factored into the expense side? Should our pay vary up and down with revenue to maintain that percentage that you speak of?

Silly me I thought that I should demand what I thought my labor was worth. I always figured that Revenue vs expense stuff was for the guys making the really big bucks to figure out. I see now what I should do is ask the company what percentage of their revenue do they feel like spending on labor, then work out with all the other workers at AA how that percentage is divied up.

With people like you running the Union no wonder we are in such as mess.

The TWU, managements best friend.