AMFA Drive started in Tulsa ?

[Ken MacTiernan]

Mind if I cut in?

In this country we are allowed to vote for representatives from the local level to the national level of government. Why are the industrial union$ fighting so hard to keep AMFA off AA property? Why not let it come to a fair vote and see where the chips fall? ( By fair I mean accurate seniority lists etc.... )

As Informer said, the workers are organizing AMFA not the other way around. Don't we live in a Democratic society? The TWU should be able to stand on its record to preserve the representation of AA AMT's and not have to resort to underhanded tactics to defeat a competing union that is desired by the members.
You believe in Democracy don't you?

AA89,

The twu can not stand on their record that is why the teamsters are here at AA to run interference for the twu. realityck, anamoly, hss, cio (all in the same?) fear AMFA because of what AMFA stands for... accountability. The twu international does not believe in democracy because they appoint people.

The sad part about this is that we are forced to pay dues to those who are appointed and do not believe in democracy.

 

[Realityck]

In this country we are allowed to vote for representatives from the local level to the national level of government. Why are the industrial union$ fighting so hard to keep AMFA off AA property? Why not let it come to a fair vote and see where the chips fall? ( By fair I mean accurate seniority lists etc.... )

I've always voted for my shop stewards, local officers, and delegates to the conventions where the international officers are elected. Of course that means the members have to attend union meetings which I know some are too busy to do.

The AMFA has been trying to gain a foothold here ever since I hired on 40 years ago. I've never been impressed with their track record and don't consider SWA as an example of what AMFA might be able to do for me since they inherited the IBT contract, and recently, negotiated the outsourcing of more overhaul work to San Salvador. It's the SWA management who (in most cases) respect their employees, their very productive workforce, and their business plan that beats that of most other carriers in the industry that sets SWA apart, not the AMFA. I don't see any advantage in AMFA membership.

I'm sorry but I don't understand the accurate seniority lists you alluded to.

As Informer said, the workers are organizing AMFA not the other way around. Don't we live in a Democratic society? The TWU should be able to stand on its record to preserve the representation of AA AMT's and not have to resort to underhanded tactics to defeat a competing union that is desired by the members.
You believe in Democracy don't you?

I've met and spoken with Delle personally and have never believed in his philosophy of AMFA doesn't need anyone, they can stand alone, etc. Nor his response to me as to how he intended to convince AA management to address the needs of it's AMTs. He said "American recognizes their professionalism and will reward them accordingly". My response was, you must be kidding! It was obvious to me he didn't know AA management like I did. Also, his looking down on Overhaul AMTs vs Line AMTs has always bothered me.

Sorry for the lengthy response.

 

[TWU informer]

In this country we are allowed to vote for representatives from the local level to the national level of government. Why are the industrial union$ fighting so hard to keep AMFA off AA property? Why not let it come to a fair vote and see where the chips fall? ( By fair I mean accurate seniority lists etc.... )

I've always voted for my shop stewards, local officers, and delegates to the conventions where the international officers are elected. Of course that means the members have to attend union meetings which I know some are too busy to do.

The AMFA has been trying to gain a foothold here ever since I hired on 40 years ago. I've never been impressed with their track record and don't consider SWA as an example of what AMFA might be able to do for me since they inherited the IBT contract, and recently, negotiated the outsourcing of more overhaul work to San Salvador. It's the SWA management who (in most cases) respect their employees, their very productive workforce, and their business plan that beats that of most other carriers in the industry that sets SWA apart, not the AMFA. I don't see any advantage in AMFA membership.

I'm sorry but I don't understand the accurate seniority lists you alluded to.

As Informer said, the workers are organizing AMFA not the other way around. Don't we live in a Democratic society? The TWU should be able to stand on its record to preserve the representation of AA AMT's and not have to resort to underhanded tactics to defeat a competing union that is desired by the members.
You believe in Democracy don't you?

I've met and spoken with Delle personally and have never believed in his philosophy of AMFA doesn't need anyone, they can stand alone, etc. Nor his response to me as to how he intended to convince AA management to address the needs of it's AMTs. He said "American recognizes their professionalism and will reward them accordingly". My response was, you must be kidding! It was obvious to me he didn't know AA management like I did. Also, his looking down on Overhaul AMTs vs Line AMTs has always bothered me.

Sorry for the lengthy response.

Those are a couple of valid OPINIONS of what you claim to believe, but you say nothing about how you are fairing under the TWU.

You are last in the industry in pay because concessions temporarily saved your define pension and restrictions on outsource, but you still paid the price and now you are about lose all of that anyway. we have lost 1000's of jobs, and soon two maintenance bases, and that is what you get with the TWU.

What is your opinion about that? And what is worth fighting for is not that?

 

[DNTULSA]

In this country we are allowed to vote for representatives from the local level to the national level of government. Why are the industrial union$ fighting so hard to keep AMFA off AA property? Why not let it come to a fair vote and see where the chips fall? ( By fair I mean accurate seniority lists etc.... )

I've always voted for my shop stewards, local officers, and delegates to the conventions where the international officers are elected. Of course that means the members have to attend union meetings which I know some are too busy to do.

The AMFA has been trying to gain a foothold here ever since I hired on 40 years ago. I've never been impressed with their track record and don't consider SWA as an example of what AMFA might be able to do for me since they inherited the IBT contract, and recently, negotiated the outsourcing of more overhaul work to San Salvador. It's the SWA management who (in most cases) respect their employees, their very productive workforce, and their business plan that beats that of most other carriers in the industry that sets SWA apart, not the AMFA. I don't see any advantage in AMFA membership.

I'm sorry but I don't understand the accurate seniority lists you alluded to.

As Informer said, the workers are organizing AMFA not the other way around. Don't we live in a Democratic society? The TWU should be able to stand on its record to preserve the representation of AA AMT's and not have to resort to underhanded tactics to defeat a competing union that is desired by the members.
You believe in Democracy don't you?

I've met and spoken with Delle personally and have never believed in his philosophy of AMFA doesn't need anyone, they can stand alone, etc. Nor his response to me as to how he intended to convince AA management to address the needs of it's AMTs. He said "American recognizes their professionalism and will reward them accordingly". My response was, you must be kidding! It was obvious to me he didn't know AA management like I did. Also, his looking down on Overhaul AMTs vs Line AMTs has always bothered me.

Sorry for the lengthy response.

What does it mean when someone speaks knowledgeably, and then says that they don't understand?

Could it be that they are another teamster or twu schill?

Surely not! (LOL)

 

[TWU informer]

AA89,

The twu can not stand on their record that is why the teamsters are here at AA to run interference for the twu. realityck, anamoly, hss, cio (all in the same?) fear AMFA because of what AMFA stands for... accountability. The twu international does not believe in democracy because they appoint people.

The sad part about this is that we are forced to pay dues to those who are appointed and do not believe in democracy.

I agree with you but would add in greed of money, and a false sense of power to what is being protected by the alliance/farce

 

[Realityck]

Those are a couple of valid OPINIONS of what you claim to believe, but you say nothing about how you are fairing under the TWU.

You are last in the industry in pay because concessions temporarily saved your define pension and restrictions on outsource, but you still paid the price and now you are about lose all of that anyway. we have lost 1000's of jobs, and soon two maintenance bases, and that is what you get with the TWU.

What is your opinion about that? And what is worth fighting for is not that?



I agree the 2003 concessions were a gamble to avoid the bankruptcies the other carriers were going through. The only difference was that while the others were gutting their overhaul operations, we were able to hold on for 9 more years. It may not mean that much to you but it certainly did to the Overhaul AMTs.

We’ll see what happens if the APA settles, and what impact it might have on our contract. While the possible merger with USAir promises some relief, I’m not a big proponent of USAir, or its management.

 

[TWU informer]

I agree the 2003 concessions were a gamble to avoid the bankruptcies the other carriers were going through. The only difference was that while the others were gutting their overhaul operations, we were able to hold on for 9 more years. It may not mean that much to you but it certainly did to the Overhaul AMTs.

We’ll see what happens if the APA settles, and what impact it might have on our contract. While the possible merger with USAir promises some relief, I’m not a big proponent of USAir, or its management.

ROFLMAO

The Anti-AMFA material produced by the TWU throughout 2003 never mentions a "TWU gamble"
In fact, these documents bash AMFA for Maintenance Base closures, job losses, and outsourced work.
My how the TWU rhetoric changes to match the current situation. And you guys claim AMFA makes excuses for failure.

We took 17.5% pay cut
Lost Holidays
Lost Vacation Days
Lost Sick Days and Paid Sick Time
Lost Work Rules

Now we have lost our defined pension, our retirement medical, looking at massive outsourcing, and headcount decimation,
and on track to be last in the industry in pay for 6 more years.

I just paid over $200,000.00 in concessions over the last 8 years and lost everything I was suppose to be paying for?

and now you admit that the TWU was "gambling" with our livelyhood?
Really? So being represented by the TWU is equal to going to the casino every two weeks and losing your ass?

Was the SRP program of 1995 a "gamble" too? What was that worth in pay increase, something like 6.5% over 6 years?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Informer,

"The Anti-AMFA material produced by the TWU throughout 2003 never mentions a "TWU gamble"
In fact, these documents bash AMFA for Maintenance Base closures, job losses, and outsourced work.
My how the TWU rhetoric changes to match the current situation. And you guys claim AMFA makes excuses for failure."

The twu rhetoric does change. Or should I say stays quite.

Previous AMFA drives it was the twu international and "team twu" that cried AMFA was "raiding" and AMFA doesn't belong to the afl-cio!

Behold! Here come the teamsters and the twu is mute about the teamsters "raid" and that the teamsters do not belong to the afl-cio.

The teamsters are the twu's ####. Pure and simple.

 

[Realityck]

I know you would like to put words in my mouth, but what don't you understand about my comments?

"I agree the 2003 concessions were a gamble to avoid the bankruptcies the other carriers were going through. The only difference was that while the others were gutting their overhaul operations, we were able to hold on for 9 more years. It may not mean that much to you but it certainly did to the Overhaul AMTs."

I speak for myself, a licensed AMT with 40 years seniority. I don't speak for the TWU. What's so complicated about that? If you can't read english maybe someone can explain it to you.

I believe that AMFA has always considered Overhaul AMTs as a lower category than Line AMTs. Lie about it if you want to but that's what it is. In case you missed it, I'm speaking for myself based on my personal conversations with Delle, and 40 years experience on the property. I don't speak for the TWU but by trying to put words in my mouth, you obviously speak for the AMFA. Rhetoric I would expect from an AMFA clone.

 

[whoop whoop]

I know you would like to put words in my mouth, but what don't you understand about my comments?

"I agree the 2003 concessions were a gamble to avoid the bankruptcies the other carriers were going through. The only difference was that while the others were gutting their overhaul operations, we were able to hold on for 9 more years. It may not mean that much to you but it certainly did to the Overhaul AMTs."

I speak for myself, a licensed AMT with 40 years seniority. I don't speak for the TWU. What's so complicated about that? If you can't read english maybe someone can explain it to you.

I believe that AMFA has always considered Overhaul AMTs as a lower category than Line AMTs. Lie about it if you want to but that's what it is. In case you missed it, I'm speaking for myself based on my personal conversations with Delle, and 40 years experience on the property. I don't speak for the TWU but by trying to put words in my mouth, you obviously speak for the AMFA. Rhetoric I would expect from an AMFA clone.

Now if you say you "BELIEVE", why would the very next words accuse Ken of lying? Why would his counter to you be a lie, if yours is just a belief of yours??????? You are approaching slander against Ken in my opinion.

 

[Buck]

I know you would like to put words in my mouth, but what don't you understand about my comments?

"I agree the 2003 concessions were a gamble to avoid the bankruptcies the other carriers were going through. The only difference was that while the others were gutting their overhaul operations, we were able to hold on for 9 more years. It may not mean that much to you but it certainly did to the Overhaul AMTs."

I speak for myself, a licensed AMT with 40 years seniority. I don't speak for the TWU. What's so complicated about that? If you can't read english maybe someone can explain it to you.

I believe that AMFA has always considered Overhaul AMTs as a lower category than Line AMTs. Lie about it if you want to but that's what it is. In case you missed it, I'm speaking for myself based on my personal conversations with Delle, and 40 years experience on the property. I don't speak for the TWU but by trying to put words in my mouth, you obviously speak for the AMFA. Rhetoric I would expect from an AMFA clone.

As one who has so much seniority, then you mist have voted to approve the multi-pay scales that have dumb down pay in airline maintenance?

Which Licenses do you hold? A&P or A&E?

 

[AA89]

In this country we are allowed to vote for representatives from the local level to the national level of government. Why are the industrial union$ fighting so hard to keep AMFA off AA property? Why not let it come to a fair vote and see where the chips fall? ( By fair I mean accurate seniority lists etc.... )

I've always voted for my shop stewards, local officers, and delegates to the conventions where the international officers are elected. Of course that means the members have to attend union meetings which I know some are too busy to do.

The AMFA has been trying to gain a foothold here ever since I hired on 40 years ago. I've never been impressed with their track record and don't consider SWA as an example of what AMFA might be able to do for me since they inherited the IBT contract, and recently, negotiated the outsourcing of more overhaul work to San Salvador. It's the SWA management who (in most cases) respect their employees, their very productive workforce, and their business plan that beats that of most other carriers in the industry that sets SWA apart, not the AMFA. I don't see any advantage in AMFA membership.

I'm sorry but I don't understand the accurate seniority lists you alluded to.

As Informer said, the workers are organizing AMFA not the other way around. Don't we live in a Democratic society? The TWU should be able to stand on its record to preserve the representation of AA AMT's and not have to resort to underhanded tactics to defeat a competing union that is desired by the members.
You believe in Democracy don't you?

I've met and spoken with Delle personally and have never believed in his philosophy of AMFA doesn't need anyone, they can stand alone, etc. Nor his response to me as to how he intended to convince AA management to address the needs of it's AMTs. He said "American recognizes their professionalism and will reward them accordingly". My response was, you must be kidding! It was obvious to me he didn't know AA management like I did. Also, his looking down on Overhaul AMTs vs Line AMTs has always bothered me.

Sorry for the lengthy response.

I understand how officers of the TWU are elected. My point was: Why is the TWU leadership attempting to dilute the AMFA drive by allowing the IBT to start a phantom drive in Tulsa? Which also applies to my other point about the last AMFA drive which was thwarted by an inaccuarate seniority list which included deceased and retired numbers. My point in all of that is: Why not let the mechanics decide their future without interference. The TWU should stand on their long proud record at AA.
I will absolutely agree with you that management philosophy dictates the fortunes of AMT'S. But as long as AA AMT's are members of the TWU and linked to the other workgroups then we are just a piece of the pie to the TWU.
This is nothing new. I have felt that way since I hired on but it seems maybe some other folks are seeing it that way too now.

 

[Realityck]

As one who has so much seniority, then you mist have voted to approve the multi-pay scales that have dumb down pay in airline maintenance?

Which Licenses do you hold? A&P or A&E?


I voted for the 1983 contract that extended the AMT pay schedule as did 76% of the other voting members. BTW, No AMT spent more than 7.5 years before topping out because they jumped pay steps in subsequent contracts. Also, I have an A&P License.

A question: Were you working here at the time or still in school?

 

[Realityck]

I will absolutely agree with you that management philosophy dictates the fortunes of AMT'S. But as long as AA AMT's are members of the TWU and linked to the other workgroups then we are just a piece of the pie to the TWU


Unless I missed something, the AMT's in the Mechanic & Related Group can have separate Locals if they choose, and we can negotiate separately as we're doing now. We also have our own negotiating committee and can accept or reject our own contract with no interference from other work groups.

 

[TWU informer]

I voted for the 1983 contract that extended the AMT pay schedule as did 76% of the other voting members. BTW, No AMT spent more than 7.5 years before topping out because they jumped pay steps in subsequent contracts. Also, I have an A&P License.

A question: Were you working here at the time or still in school?

It took me 9 1/2 years to top out. You are a common liar to say otherwise.