American looking to "right-size" the company and staffing levels for the Fall and 2021

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Swamt it is good that you care about your fellow man but sometimes layoffs can be a good thing for some people. It forces people to seek out other opportunities and sometimes, just sometimes, they find they are a better fit or happier working somewhere else, maybe even working for themselves.

Most people just slog through a job they don't really like day after day because they are comfortable. Sometimes job loss lights the fire under their ass they need to get motivated to change their lives.

Had I not seen the writing on the wall I probably never would have gone to school. Had they not eliminated my shop I might very well have worked the rest of my life in a place I did not really want to be, doing a job I did not really want to do.

Why would I do that?

Because providing for my family was more important than me being happy with my occupation. By Oklahoma standards I had a really good job for someone that only had a high school diploma. I didn't know if I could match my income or do any better.

I think a lot of people are in that position.

It's easy to make a choice when you have no choice. That statement does not make much sense does it? What it means is it's easy to attempt things you would have never attempted before had you not been put in such dire circumstances that forced your hand.

Most of those employees will go through hard times but they will survive, and they will eventually come back to American Airlines (or whatever airline they were laid off from) with a new appreciation for their job. However some (like me) will make the choice to move on and it really will work out better for them.

Don't pray for them not to get laid off because that will only result in disappointment. Instead, pray that they find their way after the fact, rather that means rejoining the airline or forging a new path.

What exactly do you disagree with Timid Weak Union .

You often disagree with my post but you never give any details as to why. I find that just a bit odd.... and a bit revealing.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Can you please explain the Juniority system to me. Since I only ever elected to bump locally (from TULE to TUL) during my career I am not really familiar with the mechanics of the juniority system. My bump was sort of a special case because in the event of a layoff TUL and TULE were considered one station.

LALILULELO

Supposedly when there was a reduction of labor within the TWU you would Bump/displace the Jr guy in the system NO matter what station they were at. So if you were in TUL and the jr guy was in JFK you would have to go to JFK. AA would tell you since there were so many being cut that these were the stations that had jr mechanics. So on your sheet you would pick the station from the list you were supplied. With the IAM system you can choose a station that has a jr person to you and you can go there. This is the gist of how it's supposed to go BUT, the TWU and AA have made deals and each of the last layoffs in my 22 yrs here at AA have had some sort of deal cut. I really don't think anyone person can tell you how it is exactly supposed to work within the TWU system since each of the last 3 have been done a bit different. Seniority has been violated each time. Within the IAM system you could get bumped more than once before you even report to you new station.

Now IF there is any sort of Layoff, we will see just how the ASSociation will conduct its business. What Deals if any will be made.

It is MY OPINION that there won't be a layoff within Aircraft Maintenance, I think AA will package out the number of older guys that would go early or that are ready to go. Cutting the payroll and vacation and 401k money and MEDICAL they are required to fund. There is alot that goes into layoffs and it would make better business sense to give a package than to layoff. Also at that point NO ONE will have to take a wage concessions.

It's a WIN - WIN for both AA and the membership, AA can at that point project out payroll/Medical cost throughout the next 5-10 yrs.

I for one along with others are working hard to BRING a Vote from the NMB that will separate the M&R group from this ASSociation and we won't have to deal with any of the FOOLISHNESS done by these two industrial Unions which only care about dues and head count. So ask your wife if she has signed a card so that we can file before the end of the summer. AMFA@AA in 2020

I hope that answers your question without going into specifics of any layoff.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Once the iam decides how layoffs will go they will tell alex how its going to be.

DFW Gen

The contract book we have has the rules in which reduction of labor is to be done. Now if it is Done any other way we the membership need to hold the leaders accountable. Don't just blame the IAM. Hoping to have enough cards by summer's end to have M&R out of this ASSociation.

 

[1AA]

DFW Gen

The contract book we have has the rules in which reduction of labor is to be done. Now if it is Done any other way we the membership need to hold the leaders accountable. Don't just blame the IAM. Hoping to have enough cards by summer's end to have M&R out of this ASSociation.

The contract book is not finalized yet. The current version is still a Tentative agreement version with no dates set as well. Take it for what it is but as you and many others have said we don't trust the TWU and the association. The world events are currently affecting the airlines financially and I believe in my opinion that the current agreement is still being tweaked. We are still waiting for a corrected seniority list. We don't have station seniority lists out yet. Things are moving slow. I just hope the final version of the JCBA is not drastically different from what we voted on back in March.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

The contract book is not finalized yet. The current version is still a Tentative agreement version with no dates set as well. Take it for what it is but as you and many others have said we don't trust the TWU and the association. The world events are currently affecting the airlines financially and I believe in my opinion that the current agreement is still being tweaked. We are still waiting for a corrected seniority list. We don't have station seniority lists out yet. Things are moving slow. I just hope the final version of the JCBA is not drastically different from what we voted on back in March.

The contract Book has been printed and the implementation of this contract has NOT been worked out. If any changes are made to the contract I am HOPING we will NOT have to have the ASSociation in place to work out the kinks as they say. Hoping to File by summer's end.

 

[swamt]

nah, no surprise. i told you 2 factors about ramp - apprx. 18,500 going into this virus journey.

- the buyout is not generous. 6 months pay + other things.

- older workers are not leaving at the pace as previous generations did. getting hit financially from 2003-2016 is a factor, but, so is the thought of finding places to hide while earning max pay. this was also discussed in the united thread about ua ramp.

retiring from laa may gain you a $2,400 monthly pension, but a 70 y/o at work can earn $5,300 monthly while hiding out and sitting in a chair. easy choice, until they start eliminating all the hiding spots.

another rumor is out there, company will announce another buyout package for the ramp in july. maybe they will sweeten it, maybe not.

so far, they haven't sweetened it. only rehashed the same and reopened windows of applying.

When you say "ramp" workers at AA, what groups are in the "ramp" workers? Would this include mechanics? I wouldn't think so, but not sure how they are classed there.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

When you say "ramp" workers at AA, what groups are in the "ramp" workers? Would this include mechanics? I wouldn't think so, but not sure how they are classed there.

Are your mechanics in the same class and craft as the ramp/Fleet guys? REALLY

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

SWAMT

You have been discussing way to much of what is Happening outside of your airline and YOUR class and craft with the mostly Fleet or No longer even airline employees,

 

[swamt]

Swamt it is good that you care about your fellow man but sometimes layoffs can be a good thing for some people. It forces people to seek out other opportunities and sometimes, just sometimes, they find they are a better fit or happier working somewhere else, maybe even working for themselves.

Most people just slog through a job they don't really like day after day because they are comfortable. Sometimes job loss lights the fire under their ass they need to get motivated to change their lives.

Had I not seen the writing on the wall I probably never would have gone to school. Had they not eliminated my shop I might very well have worked the rest of my life in a place I did not really want to be, doing a job I did not really want to do.

Why would I do that?

Because providing for my family was more important than me being happy with my occupation. By Oklahoma standards I had a really good job for someone that only had a high school diploma. I didn't know if I could match my income or do any better.

I think a lot of people are in that position.

It's easy to make a choice when you have no choice. That statement does not make much sense does it? What it means is it's easy to attempt things you would have never attempted before had you not been put in such dire circumstances that forced your hand.

Most of those employees will go through hard times but they will survive, and they will eventually come back to American Airlines (or whatever airline they were laid off from) with a new appreciation for their job. However some (like me) will make the choice to move on and it really will work out better for them.

Don't pray for them not to get laid off because that will only result in disappointment. Instead, pray that they find their way after the fact, rather that means rejoining the airline or forging a new path.

Speaking for Southwest mechanics only here; Most all the mechanics are very happily working for SWA and love their jobs and enjoy going to work with their peers. We don't see the unpleasant or folks who hate their jobs at SWA. Yes SWA has changed in the last 15 years, but it's still the best airline to work for. Alaska and/or Delta would run close second place contenders (again, mostly speaking about mechanics).
I will not stop praying for anyone to not lose their job in the coming furloughs this fall.

SWAMT

Just how many of the people that electing to take the Early out are from AMFA? F/A? Pilots?

I do not have that break down but, when they release the total numbers after July 15 I am sure we will know those numbers and I will share them with ya as soon as I get them.

 

[swamt]

LALILULELO

Supposedly when there was a reduction of labor within the TWU you would Bump/displace the Jr guy in the system NO matter what station they were at. So if you were in TUL and the jr guy was in JFK you would have to go to JFK. AA would tell you since there were so many being cut that these were the stations that had jr mechanics. So on your sheet you would pick the station from the list you were supplied. With the IAM system you can choose a station that has a jr person to you and you can go there. This is the gist of how it's supposed to go BUT, the TWU and AA have made deals and each of the last layoffs in my 22 yrs here at AA have had some sort of deal cut. I really don't think anyone person can tell you how it is exactly supposed to work within the TWU system since each of the last 3 have been done a bit different. Seniority has been violated each time. Within the IAM system you could get bumped more than once before you even report to you new station.

Now IF there is any sort of Layoff, we will see just how the ASSociation will conduct its business. What Deals if any will be made.

It is MY OPINION that there won't be a layoff within Aircraft Maintenance, I think AA will package out the number of older guys that would go early or that are ready to go. Cutting the payroll and vacation and 401k money and MEDICAL they are required to fund. There is alot that goes into layoffs and it would make better business sense to give a package than to layoff. Also at that point NO ONE will have to take a wage concessions.

It's a WIN - WIN for both AA and the membership, AA can at that point project out payroll/Medical cost throughout the next 5-10 yrs.

I for one along with others are working hard to BRING a Vote from the NMB that will separate the M&R group from this ASSociation and we won't have to deal with any of the FOOLISHNESS done by these two industrial Unions which only care about dues and head count. So ask your wife if she has signed a card so that we can file before the end of the summer. AMFA@AA in 2020

I hope that answers your question without going into specifics of any layoff.

I am still in hopes of you all filing this year. With the contract book and written language not finalized or agreed to yet, I am worried about what will come this fall when the thinning of the ranks start. If you guys don't think this asso and the company won't make another deal to help them both out as they always have in the past during layoffs, then those guys are just fooling themselves. Like it has been stated it has happened 3 times in past layoffs, what's to stop them this time? NOTHING, unless these guys get involved more and get the cards signed for a vote on new representation from a Class and Craft Mechanics Union...

 

[swamt]

Are your mechanics in the same class and craft as the ramp/Fleet guys? REALLY

SWAMT

You have been discussing way to much of what is Happening outside of your airline and YOUR class and craft with the mostly Fleet or No longer even airline employees,

No they are not classified the same as the mechanics.
My question about the ramp was at other airlines like AA who does tend to classify up to 12 groups into the same union and classifications just as a general group classification.
LuLu was saying something about a possible different leave package coming out for the ramp in July, so just wanted to clarify the groups involved is all.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

No they are not classified the same as the mechanics.
My question about the ramp was at other airlines like AA who does tend to classify up to 12 groups into the same union and classifications just as a general group classification.
LuLu was saying something about a possible different leave package coming out for the ramp in July, so just wanted to clarify the groups involved is all.

SWAMT

LILULELO so you know is NOT even an airline employee any longer, I am NOT putting him down in any way, what packages get put out BY AA or any other carrier unless already published is just a guess.

I am though curious just active are you within your own carrier with AMFA? Do you attend the AMFA meetings? Are you a Shop steward? or even more? Do you chat with the AMFA leadership about what plans they have going forward at SWA?

I know you mentioned at one time you are out for medical.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

I am still in hopes of you all filing this year. With the contract book and written language not finalized or agreed to yet, I am worried about what will come this fall when the thinning of the ranks start. If you guys don't think this asso and the company won't make another deal to help them both out as they always have in the past during layoffs, then those guys are just fooling themselves. Like it has been stated it has happened 3 times in past layoffs, what's to stop them this time? NOTHING, unless these guys get involved more and get the cards signed for a vote on new representation from a Class and Craft Mechanics Union...

SWAMT

Like you are there any of the M&R AMFA represented employees at SWA who want this to happen here at AA? If then maybe you can get some of them to come here or go to the other social media sites and tell us How AMFA treats it's membership especially the Facility and auto mechanics which for us here at AA is out Title 2 work group.

The Local that you belong to, are they on board with AA coming to AMFA, and I did hear a rumor that AMFA will soon have another carrier filing for representation.

Are you guys there going to keep the current leadership or what changes do you think may happen?

 

[1AA]

When you say "ramp" workers at AA, what groups are in the "ramp" workers? Would this include mechanics? I wouldn't think so, but not sure how they are classed there.

The association classification of ramp workers are all members. One for all and all for one. That's why they gave the retro away in lieu of a signing bonus because all ramp workers where not getting retro.
That is the problem with title 1 and 2 being lumped into the association. The dispatchers did it right. They had enough.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

The association classification of ramp workers are all members. One for all and all for one. That's why they gave the retro away in lieu of a signing bonus because all ramp workers where not getting retro.
That is the problem with title 1 and 2 being lumped into the association. The dispatchers did it right. They had enough.

1AA

In the 41 yrs I have in aircraft maintenance I have Never been considered a ramp worker, Ground worker "YES". All for one is an Industrial union thing.
The TWU/IAM/IBT all of these that are in our industry think that more members the better the deal, maybe in the past but NOW, that way of thinking is outdated.

You are correct with the statement that Title 1&2 being lumped in with any other group is a PROBLEM. If any union had a problem I would support them but that doesn't mean I want to be in the same union as them. I want a Representational Group that will look out for my best interest. Supports other unions but will Not reduce my wage earning potential to harm my class and craft.